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I was blown away after I watched the first two episodes of the new series.
My inner nerd was jumping up and down. I love the world, the artwork, especially the dialogue between the characters and all the different species. But by the the second season it seemed to be falling apart. I don’t think it has anything to do with the writers I think it has to do with the higher ups. I believe the bigwigs gave up on the series along time ago, it has suffered because of it. If I had to guess I’d say they probably limited the budget and just didn’t want much time in money spent on. WB purposely kill the new thunder cats and it really pisses me off…. I’ve been waiting for something like this for a while. I am a fantasy lover, I am the kind of person who waited in line to see all the Lord of the rings and is impatiently waiting for the hobbit. The kind of person who played final fantasy 7 over and over again…. So there’s not a lot of cartoons on right now that feeds my hunger for fantasy. This was like the only one… I am just greatly displeased with the treatment it’s been getting. I hate to see a show with such potential killed off.... If you look at the fillers from the beginning of the series and the fillers now the writing is completely different. For instance one of my favorite episodes was the drifter and the dualist. I love that episode and it was a filler, it had nothing to do with the overall plot. But then you look at the fillers of the second season and let’s face it there mind numbing. I personally think they’re just limiting what the writers and animators can do to save money…. It just irks me because we have this huge world that we have yet to explore and we probably never will get that chance. I want to be a writer and animator one day but when I see good series like this thrown away because of money. I become greatly discouraged because this is the kind of series I would love to write or animate for. I can’t help but say I feel let down by it all, to the point where I want to say screw cartoon network and screw WB….. |
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Heroes all accounted for, villain in place, same location, similar plot. Some of us are mad about tweaks made on characters to flesh them out a bit. In the OS, Tygra's character was basically: A Nice Guy Who Builds Some Things, Though Not As Well As Panthro. There isn't much to work with there, any update would have to add some depth to all of these characters. Although many seem satisfied with a character who: Is Smart, Motherly, And Runs Really Fast; characters like this need external forces to move them through the plot, and ultimately, they stay pretty flat throughout the story. See OS. I don't know why I keep discussing the minutia of this show with people who get all biblical about the OS, but here's my last thought for those of us who hate the flaws they've built into the new characters; If you're planning a 3-4 season story arc, do you really want all of your characters to be perfect 1/2 way through the first season? Or do you want to give them room to grow over the course of the series...? Maybe some of the characterization could have been handled better or more consistently, but where do you go with a good story if your characters are awesome from the beginning? After all, it took Luke Skywalker 3 movies to go from whiny farm-boy to badass Jedi. Maybe if you relax, take a moment to realize it's a children's show, and hold off on judging every minor tweak, you might enjoy the ride. |
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Lion-o and the SoO are not a minor weak. If I remember, it was Luke that destroyed the death star in episode 4. I think that is really awesome. What has lion-o done? |
Um....beat the Duelist, the Magi-Oar, freed lizards, passed the trials, helped the Petlars find the way home, rescued some Berbils, survived the Pit, found the ToO, fought his way through the Astral Plane. Yup, you're right, he's a useless wuss.
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The sword doesn't make the man. Lion-O isn't weaker just because the sword doesn't have powers coming out of nowhere just to give a convenient excuse to have him win. And he certainly wasn't perfect in the OS. Especially at the beginning of the series. He was a kid inside and he made childish mistakes. And do you think for a second the other TCats weren't better than Lion-O at certain things? Or that, without the sword, any one of them couldn't have given him a run for his money during a fight?
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Team effort with Magi. Petlars, that was a team effort again. Don't bring up the Tcats don't surrender. Team effort again with Berbils. Survived the pit, how was that great? He used his Naruto jutsu to convert pumyra. At least Naruto gets stronger over the series. He lost in the AP and lost in the trials to tygra. Look like a wuss to me. Wait, he hit mummra with one shot like he does with all the villians. Yup, he is a wuss compared to the OS lion-o. |
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He learned over the series his faults and grew stronger, unlike the NS. The TCats in the OS could not beat him. Maybe in the begining, but not after the trials. Unlike this series, tygra can still beat him. |
Luke, blew up a Death Star with one shot, swung over a pit, survived a trash compactor... Got roughed up in a bar. I'm still pretty sure he's considered a hero in that movie.
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Luke's first light saber battle with Darth Vader was longer than any of Lion-o fights. Let me state this again. Lion-o is the hero, he should be a lot stronger than he is. The SoO should be stronger. Tygra should not be better than lion-o this late in the game. |
I usually disagree with L08e16o, but I agree with him here: The Original Lion-O had a bunch of early episodes to establish himself as a solo hero before he called in the other ThunderCats in the last 5 minutes. I'm not bashing ANY series. I like them both. The relationship is also completely different between the series; Original series Lion-O was being mentored to become their ruler by older people. In the New series, he's on a quest to defeat Mumm-Ra, surrounded by other teens around his age or younger and the only adult follows his orders.
Two different Lion-O's. Unfortunately, Modern Lion-O doesn't have the episodes to establish himself like the Original Lion-O did. I think this is because of modern animation not having 65 episode seasons like they had in the 80's. Every 80's character or group used to have new episodes 5 days a week, plenty of time to establish characters. The modern versions only get shown on the weekend. So many filler episodes wasted their episode count also did not help, if they had less time to establish things. |
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When Tygra and Pumyra both disobeyed and undermined Lion-O 's authority in front of potential hostiles in that last episiode--those events would have NEVER happened in the original series. The older and mature Cats in that series respected Lion-O's position as their king, even before the Trials. If Lion-O made a rash decision, they would respectfully consul him into making the right judgement. With this new ThunderCats, they all are aware that he's in charge, but they don't respect him. I think it's because they are fellow kids. The only mature one is Panthro and he's played for laughs and the occasional bad-ass moment. One guy is raised by his elders into a mature adult, leader and king. The other guy is a boy on a road trip with other kids. I don't hate the new series at all, but it is definitely not the old series. Both series have their weaknesses and strengths. I still think the new series can turn some of these criticisms around, if it can be saved. Hopefully it's not too late. |
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If you look at a property like Avengers, they eventually run out of plausible situations to stick the characters in because they're soooo damn powerful. So every new story involves a crazier reason someone or something is going to destroy the world, universe, time, whatever, and the stories start to feel formulaic and forced. I don't think the new series is perfect, but giving Lion-o room to grow isn't necessarily a sign that they hate the character or the fans. |
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Room to grow, where did he grow? Luke was still great in episode 4. He was a great pilot, unlike tygra just getting into an A/C and can fly it. I think MJ has made tygra better than lion-o. If lion-o would've grown, he would be better than tygra by now. |
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And this isn't late in the game. It's the first season. |
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The point is, the battles for lion-o do not take that long. One hit shots. They can make the mummra fights better. If WB allows MJ to do the other season, I expect the same old same with him. |
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Who do you think will betray lion-o? |
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We probably would have seen Lion-O develop more if they hadn't wasted a few episodes. |
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I am fine with fillers, if they flesh out the characters. I just wish lion-o was stronger. |
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If it is pumyra, that is nothing big to me. They said she would be with them for a bit after forever bag. After we say the ending of last episode, you could see her doing that. If it is cheetara, that would be a big surprise. I would never guess it would be her. I don't see panthro or the kittens doing it unless it is Snarf.:D |
The Only thing the New Thundercats had going for them is the art work and the character design. However, The show is barely watchable. I like to watch animations and I can barely make though the entire episode. The problem with the writers and the animators. I can see the story going from point A to point B but there is really no substance. and animation also does not flow either, jumping all over the place. it would seem like the entire episode written in a short paragraph without any descriptive words and the whole story can be told in 5 minute slide show. They need to learn to write the complete story before hand and they need continue to feed new information to keep audience interested.
The best show in CN now is Young Justice, and that one you would be hooked just after watching one episode. As for Thundercats, even thought the art works is one of the better ones, I would watch some many other ones before I want to see Thundercats. Consider even the Toys the the Young Justice failed at retail, I don't have too much hope for show like this one. |
Vantheman77, it looks like you're complaining there is too much filler but at the same time suggesting there should be more filler with each season focusing on a tower or stone. There would be waaay more filler if the writers went that route.
I don't get why people don't like Lion-O growing into his role. Luke was a whiny b*#%h in ANH. Then he failed his test in the cave on Dagobah and lost his hand to Darth Vader while trying and failing to save his friends before making an epic comeback as a badass in ROTJ. Even G1 Optimus Prime was a bit niave when he fought Megatron in a duel over who had to leave Earth and expected Megatron to fight fair. Maybe kids want a completely invincible hero but I really like character flaws because then I can relate easier to the characters. And who says Lion-O is second fiddle to Tygra? Tygra does come off as a jerk but I don't see hime beating Mumm-Ra. Also as I recall when Lion-O "died" he failed the test (cave on dagobah) but actually passed because he was willing to die for his people and Tygra admitted he kept criticising Lion-O and was wrong to do so because he believed he could do better but only got everyone captured. Talk about people seeing only what they want to see. Is your view on the rest of your life the glass half full or half empty? The original series died for a reason. It got old. This reboot took decades to come about and even if it isn't perfect it's better to have something to get folks to remember than just comic books. I agree with another poster who said this show complimented Clone Wars well. For primetime and a more mature audience it was awesome. But after the move to Saturday mornings the writing did seem to get goofy with Panthro being comedic relief. They probably did the move and dumbed down the show just to drive sales for the toys and it didn't work largely because there were no toys to buy or retailers weren't carrying the product. The show and toys probably should be geared towards adults and collectors. The companies like to say that the kids are the majority but I will argue there are specific late night blocks with purely adults in mind on CN and how did Star Wars survive a 20 year hiatus without collectors and fans? Same with Thundercats and MOTU. And for the new series haters, Transformers is around and kicking today in many markets thanks in large part to Beast Wars regenerating interest. I see Geewunners complain about the series, toys and movies not being the same as the 80's but if it was it probably would get old fast because we have been there, done that. It has needed revamps to keep things interesting and to remind people it is even there to begin with. I don't like everything about every new relaunch but I'm glad to have my toys and see the franchise is around at all. If you really wanna complain about something become a Star Wars fan. It's supposed to be one huge super continuity that encompasses the movies, books, comics and toons but a lot of the creators step on each others toes, change the timeline (Luke will be 8 years old in ANH with the way they are drawing the Clone Wars cartoon out) and retcons are everywhere. Did you know Darth Maul didn't die at the end of TPM? Let's be thankful for having anything it all. Beggers can't be choosers. "I want Thundercats, just not this Thundercats… or that one… or the one after that." That's like crying wolf. Eventually WB and affiliates will just give up on the franchise when they realize nothing they do will make anyone happy. |
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the original died because it got old? .....so what does it make this hunk of garbage thats dying much faster? This show has gotten it wrong so manys way I don't have time to list them all. Beggars can't be choosers? Oh yeah , they can . You can accept this terrible reboot that bears little resemblence to the Original , or you ask for better. Jelenic and crew got it wrong. ( that includes Dan Norton). |
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And MJ looks like will not be involved with TCATS anymore. With WB's Press Release of him doing Teen Titans Go. ________________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. |
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That would be great to hear.... But again I have to ask , if these were SUCH big fans of the Original, why tear down and change so much that simply DID NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED. IMO, i wouldn't let these former Wildstorm guys go NEAR this property again. |
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________________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. |
pretty much every thing thats been stated here ive been saying for months now. Great show that lost its way, great toys but horrid distribution, WB doesnt give a damn & CN didnt help. Because of all that the franchise is probably going to go back into limbo for another 20 years. I hope not but im sure thats whats going to happen. Only problem i have with this posting is that the section of should not & can not be saved should be separated into their own sections, not only are they 2 different things but with them separated you can state more for each and bring up more issues that you might have lesft out to save space and keep things even. But other than that it was a good read and i hope that some of the big shots working on the franchise see it and our responses and try and take notes. Should the series be saved yes, can it be saved yes, will it be saved probably not. But if it is to be save for the love of god dont let hasbro get a hold of it. They have to much as it is and they'll find some way to screw it up down the road.
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BTW you're probably in luck... if MJ is no longer involved with the show, it's most likely because there is no more show. So cheer up, the T-cats universe shall be restored to its former glory. And nobody will force you to watch this vile new series. |
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I have always called this thing right down the middle. From a purely business perspective it seems that WB / CN, the writers, producers, and Bandai were not all in sync. They put a show which started off geared towards a more mature audience in a time slot where a older demographic is watching, but released toys mostly geared towards children. Then they realized the mistake, switched it to Sat mornings (which was a good idea IMO seeing how they wanted to drive up toy sales and improve ratings) however now some of the episodes and plots were going way over these children's heads. They couldn't just "jump right in" so to say. So to sum it up: from the beginning they either had to choose to target a more mature audience with collectibles geared towards them, or a show written more for children with a toy line geared towards them. You can't mix and match as the evidence shows. |
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As for Lion-O this season, they sure had him become king in a negative way. We're left feeling he couldn't beat Tygra on anything. |
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I have a feeling if someone replaces MJ, Tygra's role will be reduced. |
Anyone can write/produce multiple shows.[/QUOTE]
Disagree. I don't believe he will be on this project anymore. They want him to focus on TTG. I love it too. If he did both projects, you would have more holes in the story line. |
Focus on an animated project is very important. I can see MJ putting his energies into Teen Titans Go than Thundercats. If we get a second season, I hope writers from the original series will be onboard.
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He needs to stay on comedy where he belongs. WB, CN, and Bandai are losing money. They will not wait two years and bring this out again. The investors in TCats want a return on their investment. If anything, somone else will lead the project. |
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________________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. |
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Latest rumor Hasbro might wanna snag it and revamp it on the dieing Hub as a last ditch effort to save the franchise and the network. take that with extreme trepidation as I trust absolutely nothing about hasbro anymore. Even if it does come to light, chances are they'll muff it.
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With Lion-O not measuring up to Tygra, again I say people are only seeing what they want to see. Lion-O has sight beyond sight wich Jaga said they're greatest king was prophecized to have. He beats Mumm-Ra regularly. Tygra's jealousy has made him betray Lion-O when they were cubs and made him jealous of what seemed like a relationship developing between Cheetara and Lion-O. Plus he was blinded to what was really going on when they found the Tiger Clan wich Lion-O figured out and Tygra fully admitted he wasn't the leader Lion-O was. This last episode of the season/series also shows how Lion-O has earned the trust and respect of the other animals by helping out. Neither character is perfect. People griping about Lion-O being second best have no argument. He isn't unbeatable. He wasn't granted all the wisdom and strength that comes with experience like in the 80's version. Whoop-dee-doo. So some other characters get to share some of the spot light. Cry me a river. I'm not saying everyone has to like this new show but I have a feeling a lot of the people complaining about it won't be happy with anything anyone does with the franchise except let it be forgotten.
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