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-   -   Thundercats Episode 23: Recipe For Disaster Discussion (http://www.thundercats.ws/showthread.php?t=20173)

KaleRylan 05-29-2012 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mum Star (Post 52835)
I think the thing with the 80's villains, especially Mumm-Ra, wasn't that they won at the end of the episode. It's that they would win right up until the end, and even then, you knew they would be back. TOS Mumm-Ra was a persistant bastard. He outright stated several times things like if at first you don't succeed, try again, and tommorow is another day. And it was rare that his faluires really cost him anything. Mumm-Ra always had more evil spells.

Of course there's also what Gargoyles did. The Xanatos Gambit. This is a great way to have the heroes win the episode, but the villian still maintain a threat, and seem competent.

I think you make a very valid point about 80s villains. It wasn't necessarily that Mumm-ra, or any other 80s villain, was truly scary, it's just that the fights were done in such a way that, win or lose, it didn't really affect their 'threat-level'

By having more complex stories in modern cartoons, it also causes us to judge the capability of modern villains, and characters, more harshly.

fuukonomiko 05-29-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac (Post 52802)
I agree.
In The Legend of Korra, Amon’s characterisation is handled so well. The aura of sophistication, power and fear that he projects is really well done. And it took them barely 6 episodes to do so. Compared to that, Mumm-Ra is downright pathetic.

The Legend of Korra writers at the helm of ThunderCats – that I really want to see!

That I would love to see!
I wonder if the VAs even get an input on what their character says. Like, don't they go and read and say, "You know what, my character wasn't like this the last time, can we change something?"

L08e16o 05-29-2012 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 52775)
I basically agree with you, but I think the point Mum Star is making, which would be kind of accurate, is that Cheetara was eventually explained to be 'helping' and 'watching over' Lion-o. Pumyra, on the other hand, is just being (potentially) romantic. She's not his guardian or anything, so unless she's a spy or something, she presumably has no alterior motives when she smiles at him, or kisses him, or whatever.

That means that if she up and left him she wouldn't have the justification that cheetara did of Lion-o just being confused.

This is where the writing is poor. Pumyra has not really done anything on the level of cheetara. She gave him a kiss for him waving his SoO around.:D

Let's be honest, cheetara is not lion-o's guardian or protector. Episodes 14 and 15 prove that.

L08e16o 05-29-2012 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercat77 (Post 52787)
As a 35 year old "old school" Thundercats fan I can say I love the revamping of the characters I fell in love with as a child, and the more "grown up" feel of the series. I think the romance in the series was put in to appeal to the female audience, and for that I applaud the writers...maybe make it a little less cheesy, but interesting. I've read over a lot of these posts so I'm sure a lot of the guys aren't going to agree with the romance bits...you fellas must be young.
I do have some issues with character development for Cheetara...I have to agree with everyone else on that. I also have an issue with the new Tygra...he's a jerk more than anything else. Other than that, I can't believe a character who seems as humble as Cheetara would be attracted to that, period. Ugh. Not saying she's perfect, I don't agree with what she did in 13, and I still don't buy her excuse. I think there is still something she's hiding.
I didn't really care for the old Snarf, but this one is just too cute. Lol I love the fact that he doesn't talk in this one :) I'm disappointed in the sword of Omens...just what exactly makes it so great in this series? It seems like the only thing it does is sight beyond sight and shoot a red beam. Blah. The old sword seemed WAY more better. It seemed to be more a part of Lion-O. More magical. Unstoppable.
I would like to see more episodes with their cycles. We got what? One episode? It also seems like this journey of finding the stones is being drug out too long too. I also have to agree with you guys on the pair ups. Tygra and Pumyra seem more suited for each other. They should flip flop these relationships seriously. Kudos on Panthro and the kids. They are perfect! The season finale is getting closer and i can't help but wonder what this twist is going to be. Hopefully not anything as bad as the end of 13. That pissed me off on so many levels. Writers please stop beating the sh*t out of Lion-O. The story is supposed to be about him becoming the greatest king of all time as prophesied, right??

MJ got to write is Tygra fan fic finally.:D

Agree. I could not tolerate someone like tygra. We would be throwing down.

L08e16o 05-29-2012 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac (Post 52793)
I accept your points but respectfully disagree.

In “Trials Part 2,” Mumm-Ra runs away after being defeated by Lion-O in his pyramid where he was supposed to be “immeasurably powerful.”

Lion-O then beats a Plunn-Darr wielding Mumm-Ra in “Birth of the Blades,” who then flees because of the sunlight (outside factor?).

Then Mumm-Ra was beaten by this:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2e1ex5i.png

For a supposedly super-evil antagonist, things couldn’t possibly get worse than that. Mumm-Ra gets an F- in Villainy 101.

They should make the cats struggle against mummra. I mean lion-o had time to wave his SoO around with a smile at pumyra. Didn't look like he was worried about the moment.

L08e16o 05-29-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito (Post 52799)
After this last episode, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Mind Stone was inside a friggin Pokeball or a Digivolver.

Shouldn't lion-o catch luci with his pokeball.:D

Sining 05-29-2012 09:11 AM

this was pretty much the dumbest fight I've ever seen.

stormbringer 05-29-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko (Post 52841)
That I would love to see!
I wonder if the VAs even get an input on what their character says. Like, don't they go and read and say, "You know what, my character wasn't like this the last time, can we change something?"

Some writers may be too temperamental to accept creative input.

SirSapphire 05-29-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko (Post 52841)
That I would love to see!
I wonder if the VAs even get an input on what their character says. Like, don't they go and read and say, "You know what, my character wasn't like this the last time, can we change something?"

Well, Will Friedle has fully written two episodes himself so it's safe to assume that he at least is deeply involved in the creative process. As for the other VA's I'm sure they get a fair amount of input, there's a lot more to voice acting than just reading lines out of a binder.

fuukonomiko 05-29-2012 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 52876)
Well, Will Friedle has fully written two episodes himself so it's safe to assume that he at least is deeply involved in the creative process. As for the other VA's I'm sure they get a fair amount of input, there's a lot more to voice acting than just reading lines out of a binder.

In a way I did like the way he handled the Trials part 2...Tygra saying "Whiskers?" That was priceless! I was wondering more with Matt Mercer and Emmanuelle Chiriqui...like don't they come up and say like "You know people are going to think I'm a dingdong for saying this...can we change it or something?" Kevin Michael Richardson, however, probably needn't complain, he gets awesome lines! :P

TRXDOUT GRAND V 05-29-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PussyCatDoll (Post 52418)
I agree with you. She's kind of crazy. I see her paired with Tygra better but who knows. When Bengali joins the crew, I wonder if it will effect her or Cheetara since in the comics or OS that there were hints Bengali and Pumyra are pretty close. I heard it from somewhere but that would make a very interesting episode. I know Cheetara meets another man name Pumm-ra in the OS but he turns out to be Mumm-ra in disguise.:p She did drops some hints like touching his face and saying he could move on to someone else. Either way, it will be hard to know since he thought Cheetara did touch him more than a mentor to student-kind. Even her mixed signals fooled Tygra!


seeing that she is the only OTHER (noterized) female cat available (not including the the Wiley's)...why not...cat has got blue'd by cheeta. We can't have a King all Balled up!...

PussyCatDoll 05-29-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercat77 (Post 52787)
As a 35 year old "old school" Thundercats fan I can say I love the revamping of the characters I fell in love with as a child, and the more "grown up" feel of the series. I think the romance in the series was put in to appeal to the female audience, and for that I applaud the writers...maybe make it a little less cheesy, but interesting. I've read over a lot of these posts so I'm sure a lot of the guys aren't going to agree with the romance bits...you fellas must be young.
I do have some issues with character development for Cheetara...I have to agree with everyone else on that. I also have an issue with the new Tygra...he's a jerk more than anything else. Other than that, I can't believe a character who seems as humble as Cheetara would be attracted to that, period. Ugh. Not saying she's perfect, I don't agree with what she did in 13, and I still don't buy her excuse. I think there is still something she's hiding.
I didn't really care for the old Snarf, but this one is just too cute. Lol I love the fact that he doesn't talk in this one :) I'm disappointed in the sword of Omens...just what exactly makes it so great in this series? It seems like the only thing it does is sight beyond sight and shoot a red beam. Blah. The old sword seemed WAY more better. It seemed to be more a part of Lion-O. More magical. Unstoppable.
I would like to see more episodes with their cycles. We got what? One episode? It also seems like this journey of finding the stones is being drug out too long too. I also have to agree with you guys on the pair ups. Tygra and Pumyra seem more suited for each other. They should flip flop these relationships seriously. Kudos on Panthro and the kids. They are perfect! The season finale is getting closer and i can't help but wonder what this twist is going to be. Hopefully not anything as bad as the end of 13. That pissed me off on so many levels. Writers please stop beating the sh*t out of Lion-O. The story is supposed to be about him becoming the greatest king of all time as prophesied, right??

You just read my mind about this whole series! I am a new fan of the thundercats because of this series and is great to hear an older fan that likes this series just as the original one!

JASONKAT 05-29-2012 03:41 PM

I think the name fits it well. "Recipe For Disaster " but in the wrong kinda way.
This has got to be one of the dumbest show(s) ive ever seen from the TCS.
It had nothing to do with the "main' story The writing is all wrong. The fighting was stupid as hell. They took the kiddy approached in this one and i think in some way. thats kinda blah. Unless your under 6yrs you would love that kinda fight, but 6 and up, would much rather enjoy a good fight.
The big face thing was also kiddy stuff.
No sign of wily kit & wily kat, as if the cats dont care about them, they are miles away from them, I wonder how they will meet up again.
Anyhow, i give this show 1 or 2 out of 5 stars.

Singe 05-29-2012 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 52838)
I think you make a very valid point about 80s villains. It wasn't necessarily that Mumm-ra, or any other 80s villain, was truly scary, it's just that the fights were done in such a way that, win or lose, it didn't really affect their 'threat-level'

By having more complex stories in modern cartoons, it also causes us to judge the capability of modern villains, and characters, more harshly.

The other way is that the heroes are just to lucky and they let the bad guys escape or show mercy to them.

Mum Star 05-29-2012 09:36 PM

It's kinda sad, but if Pumrya does break Lion-O's heart or die, I can see Tygra popping out and doing the Nelson Muntz "Ha ha!" It just sounds like Tygra has backslid and then some for the last few episodes. I mean, it would have been compleatly different if he had sounded worried.

I know how how Pumrya could get revenge for Lion-O snickering about her face. He gets put in the TOS Lion-O outfit. She comments about the abs window.

I know that everyone's been wondering about Bengalli, but I wonder if we'll ever see Vultureman.

Mum Star 05-29-2012 09:40 PM

It's kinda sad, but if Pumrya does break Lion-O's heart or die, I can see Tygra popping out and doing the Nelson Muntz "Ha ha!" It just sounds like Tygra has backslid and then some for the last few episodes. I mean, it would have been compleatly different if he had sounded worried.

I know how how Pumrya could get revenge for Lion-O snickering about her face. He gets put in the TOS Lion-O outfit. She comments about the abs window.

I know that everyone's been wondering about Bengalli, but I wonder if we'll ever see Vultureman.

I wish Mumm-Ra would use his shapshifting ability for disgiuses more. One of the biggest bits of damage he's done thus far is when he killed Claudis while disguised as Panthro.

dpcphoto 05-29-2012 09:48 PM

I think that Vultureman and the rest for the ThunderCats will pop up early in season 2. That season should be packed! Hachiman, Snowman and Ma-Mutt, Berserkers and Lunataks, etc.

Season 1 was awesome, and my complaints are extremely minimal, but the biggest one is that the writers are trying to pack too much story into 22 minutes. The original kept everyone engaged because it was simple. Whatever was going down was introduced in the first few minutes, then the rest of the show was the Cats kicking mutant and Mumm-Ra ass. It was sweet and worked.

Ravenxl7 05-30-2012 12:58 PM

I liked this episode. Unlike the one before it, the story to this one was one I enjoyed. With the assumption that they'll never use that tonic again, I would call this one another filler episode, and a pretty good one at that. One small detail I really liked was the guy's name, Ponzi.

Definitely looking forward to this week's episode, "The Soul Sever". Should be interesting to see where they take the show in this season's last three episodes. Even though they made this season with the idea that a second would be on the way, I really hope they didn't end it on a cliffhanger...

AlexofThundera 05-30-2012 01:26 PM

I watched the episode again in HD and the art was phenomenal. A lot of people didn't like the whole Mothra thing but one of the things that was cool about the OS was all the strange creatures they encountered. I'll admit Lucy's face was a bit too kiddy, but I liked her and I especially liked Ponzi.

The part where the cats are trying to reach him and Lion-o is waving his sword and Ponzi goes "oh man, he looks mad!" was great.

IMHO if there is a season 2 I would like the series to have a lot more of these "stand alone" episodes. I want every episode to be a new adventure, not another tiresome "search for the stones" episode. I'm fine with 2 and 3 parters, but it feels like the whole stone thing has dragged on long enough.

xhavoc86 05-30-2012 05:29 PM

the Pumyra face is priceless lol

im so glad she has a bigger role in this series...i hope it stays that way!

gjustis 05-30-2012 05:59 PM

All foibles aside...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer (Post 52482)
Loved the inclusion of the original theme when Lion-o squared off the first time with Mummrasuar.

I, too, found this profoundly badass.

And hey...Mothra pokemon is cuuuuuuuuute. :D

stac 05-30-2012 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexofThundera (Post 53022)
IMHO if there is a season 2 I would like the series to have a lot more of these "stand alone" episodes. I want every episode to be a new adventure, not another tiresome "search for the stones" episode. I'm fine with 2 and 3 parters, but it feels like the whole stone thing has dragged on long enough.

Actually, I prefer the opposite. I don’t see why they can’t have a new adventure while they are searching for the stones. Back when the show had a plot, it was much more captivating. Due to the standalone episodes and fillers, it’s lost that feel.

The entire plot concerning the stones has been largely ignored since at least episode 16. If it feels like it’s been dragged on, it’s because they have barely even touched that part of the plot.

Singe 05-31-2012 12:06 AM

The setup for the stones in Thundercats could have been done the same way as Slayers Season 2. It had the group looking for the Clarie Bible. Filler episodes were setup as leads that could take them to the Clarie Bible but would lead to a dead end or some new added bit of info about the Clarie Bible.

I find the Book of Omens as being wasted for coming into play so early in the series. The group could have moved around for a bit going by rumors and info in finding two stones. Then they find the Book of Omens to lead them to the other stones and reveal the real truth. At least if the series followed it this way, most of the early episodes could have been spent building up the group.

L08e16o 05-31-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe (Post 53086)
The setup for the stones in Thundercats could have been done the same way as Slayers Season 2. It had the group looking for the Clarie Bible. Filler episodes were setup as leads that could take them to the Clarie Bible but would lead to a dead end or some new added bit of info about the Clarie Bible.

I find the Book of Omens as being wasted for coming into play so early in the series. The group could have moved around for a bit going by rumors and info in finding two stones. Then they find the Book of Omens to lead them to the other stones and reveal the real truth. At least if the series followed it this way, most of the early episodes could have been spent building up the group.

Agree, the book of omens was wasted. I thought when lion-o passed the test in legacy, he would go back into the book.

Singe 05-31-2012 12:14 PM

Plus in order to make up for the missing part of the Book of Omens which tells Lion-O about the stones, Jaga and Cheetara could have been lore in chief by dropping directions on which way to go in the journey.

L08e16o 05-31-2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe (Post 53147)
Plus in order to make up for the missing part of the Book of Omens which tells Lion-O about the stones, Jaga and Cheetara could have been lore in chief by dropping directions on which way to go in the journey.

That would make too much sense, plus it would throw a bone for cheetara. Who is she any way.

Mum Star 05-31-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe (Post 53086)
The setup for the stones in Thundercats could have been done the same way as Slayers Season 2. It had the group looking for the Clarie Bible. Filler episodes were setup as leads that could take them to the Clarie Bible but would lead to a dead end or some new added bit of info about the Clarie Bible.

I find the Book of Omens as being wasted for coming into play so early in the series. The group could have moved around for a bit going by rumors and info in finding two stones. Then they find the Book of Omens to lead them to the other stones and reveal the real truth. At least if the series followed it this way, most of the early episodes could have been spent building up the group.

Hey, I was going to mention Slayers!

In some ways I think that the did too good a job setting Mumm-Ra up as being this all powerful threat. A lot of the best plans in TOS that Mumm-Ra did involved him bieng a little more subtle. Using his shapeshifting to infiltrate Cat's Lair, or casting spells that messed with the Cat's from a distance, not direct confrontation.

Singe 05-31-2012 05:05 PM

Now this series is starting to seem messed up. The Book of Omens was this once important artifact. Now it serves as nothing more than a laser pointer and compass. With all this crazy stuff happening for the past couple of episodes, why hasn't Mumm-ra or his flunkies actually raid the Thundertank to steal the book. Even Mumm-ra has been I don't need the book anymore.

L08e16o 05-31-2012 05:41 PM

Why doesn't mummra attack the TCats with his gerernals and his SoP. The Cats wouldn't stand a chance. Mummra would have the War stone, Spirit Stone, and the BoO.

I think the next stone is in episode 25 and 26.

They need to leave a cliff hanger too.

Have one of the TCats betray the group and take the stone.

SirSapphire 05-31-2012 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe (Post 53173)
Now this series is starting to seem messed up. The Book of Omens was this once important artifact. Now it serves as nothing more than a laser pointer and compass. With all this crazy stuff happening for the past couple of episodes, why hasn't Mumm-ra or his flunkies actually raid the Thundertank to steal the book. Even Mumm-ra has been I don't need the book anymore.

It only seemed important because the cats didn't know it was basically a laser pointer/compass. Even Mumm-Ra used the book basically for locating the stones back in the days of 'Legacy."

Big Snarf 05-31-2012 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 53180)
It only seemed important because the cats didn't know it was basically a laser pointer/compass. Even Mumm-Ra used the book basically for locating the stones back in the days of 'Legacy."

The cats haven't found the siri app on the book of omens yet

Big Snarf 05-31-2012 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o (Post 53179)
Why doesn't mummra attack the TCats with his gerernals and his SoP. The Cats wouldn't stand a chance. Mummra would have the War stone, Spirit Stone, and the BoO.

I think the next stone is in episode 25 and 26.

They need to leave a cliff hanger too.

Have one of the TCats betray the group and take the stone.

Grune coming out of the forever bag would be a cliffhanger :eek::eek:

Balgus82 05-31-2012 10:06 PM

Here's a peek at the Soul Sever!

Soul Sever concept by ~Dingo107 on deviantART

fuukonomiko 05-31-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82 (Post 53201)
Here's a peek at the Soul Sever!

Soul Sever concept by ~Dingo107 on deviantART

I have a feeling whoever's soul it takes would link it to the last two episodes.

Snarf? He needs an episode for him too! :P

Eclipse 06-01-2012 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko (Post 53203)
I have a feeling whoever's soul it takes would link it to the last two episodes.

I wonder: do they stumble into his lair or does he come out to play?

The Soul Sever looks really cool and right down my alley. I prefer darker and bloodier but in a cartoon environment this is as good as I can hope for.

Whatever tomorrow's ep brings will be something I haven't thought about because I honestly have no idea except that I don't think it will have a TBC vibe at the end :)

I can't wait till tomorrow but dammit... I'll be working.

AlexofThundera 06-01-2012 09:30 AM

So I know it is still morning but it would seem this could be the second week in a row WB does not send out any preview clips or still images for the next episode.

Jlogano20 06-16-2012 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe (Post 52731)
Biggest what the **** twist, turns out Pumyra was a sleeper agent working for Mumm-ra or created by Mumm-ra then planted in with the slaves for Lion-O to meet her then get close to the group.

She did help deliver the Sword of Plundarr into Mumm-ra's hands.

smart man.......


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