Thundercats Ep 8 - The Duelist and The Drifter Discussion

[decepticat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by balgus82

dan norton said last night in the crew chat that the show will have a 6 week break from new episodes.

whiskers!!!!!

[SirSapphire]

I have to say that I gotta agree that this episode feels like filler. You could skip it and not really miss all that much story-wise.
That being said, it's also really, really great filler. It's the kind of episode you can watch multiple times and still get a complete story. It doesn't really lead from or into anything else. It's its own little story with some great character development that is non-traditional. As mentioned before the moral isn't that Lion-O needs to be a better person, he already is a good person, as is shown when he fights the Duelist less for his own pride, but out of a sense of justice for all the swords he's taken simply because he can. He just needs to learn that there are more ways to fight than with strength alone, one can be weaker and still find a way to win. An excellent lesson when going up against the likes of Mumm-Ra.

[Jack-Pumpkinhead]

Saw the episode last night, loved it! I love swords, so this one was for me. The Duelist was very cool, loved his look.The Drifter was fun, especially with his constant snagging on the fence. And yeah, I got a little vibe of Usagi from him.Yeah, this one was fun!

[Devinebull1978]

I personally did not enjoy this episode. The first few episodes had a ''Lord of the rings'' feel to it... Episode 7 had a ''Robotech'' or ''Star Wars'' feel to it. And now this episode had a floating rabbit ! It just did not have the impact as the previous episodes, and I agree it was a filler however the writers could have done better. I must say on a positive note the animation was outstanding.

[Shadowknight1]

As someone who knows a lot about swords and swordplay, this was NOT an unnecessary filler episode as far as Lion-O goes. He was depending too much on the strength of his sword and of his own raw power. Power alone is not enough. You must be flexible in a duel, agility is one of the better qualities in a swordfight, not straight up strength. This was something Lion-O needed to learn, and it'll serve him well in the future.

And why are people just now getting that "whiskers" is analogous to "frak" or "scrap" or "gorram"? I knew that from the beginning. He's swearing in a way that doesn't give the censors or little kids' mommas a heart attack.

[LiarDice Films]

I really good, well pieced together episode that entertained from start to finish. Good job

[Simbatron]

If this was the first episode of the show I would not watch the second. Not only was the story weak, badly written and plot painfully predictable, but the character designs and voicecasting were weak, uneven and terribly mismatched. The tough swordsman in the beginning had a soft young voice that didn't fit, and the fat little weeble wobble MC had a deep booming voice. Pure limited anime style has it's limits. This show was a major turn off for me. Yuck.

I hate furries and this episode made the generics look more like furries than anything I've seen on the show to date. Seriously dislike the character designs here. Don't LOVE many of the main cast - but they work well. But this show seemed like it was given to 2 or 3 junior designers and it was hodgepodge.

The rabbit swordmaker voice was a weird Burl Ives imitation that was so odd and offputting - and the design was lame. I intensely disliked his dialogue - it was wordy and badly read - reminded me of bad english translated from Japanese anime - where they shove too many English words into the Japanese syntax and it's awkward and weird and unintentionally funny to behold.

Hope this show is the exception to the rule.

Don't get me wrong - I like many of the shows. And LOVED Song of the Petulars - watched that one 4 times - brought me to tears it was so deep and profound. That one should get an emmy. This one should not.

But I'll keep watching of course...

[Thinktank]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simbatron

I hate furries

Boy are you watching the wrong show...

Your criticisms while as perfectly valid as any opinion can be.
Is not only hyperbolic but betrays a lack of reference for the
various themes and concepts at play. The writing was not
amateurish. It simply played on concepts and themes you either
do not grasp or do not agree with. If you cannot let go and
enjoy the friut of the new creative team's creative efforts...
Well you are only cheating yourself. I would recommend turning
a less baleful eye to this show, or don't. I don't care...

[spike78a]

it seems your only problem with "the duelist and the drifter" is that it was a filler and in my personal opinion you shouldn't knock a episode just because it's a stand alone story. if this was a show like "24" i could understand maybe but thundercats is not that type of show.
not every episode should have to deal with the main story arc that's why it's called a "arc". if all 52 episodes dealt with the quest you'd wear the audience out. or you may risk making the quest boring.
some of the best episodes of the x-files were the stand alone stories that had nothing to do with the alien invasion. that also goes for other shows with intense story arcs.
i think a lot fans years from now when revisiting this episode will appreciate it for what it is a great episode and it won't matter that it was just a stand alone episode. but this is just my opinion obviously you feel different.

[Simbatron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinktank

Boy are you watching the wrong show...

Your criticisms while as perfectly valid as any opinion can be.
Is not only hyperbolic but betrays a lack of reference for the
various themes and concepts at play. The writing was not
amateurish. It simply played on concepts and themes you either
do not grasp or do not agree with. If you cannot let go and
enjoy the friut of the new creative team's creative efforts...
Well you are only cheating yourself. I would recommend turning
a less baleful eye to this show, or don't. I don't care...

Yeah, I guess the "I hate furries" was too much. Look, I loved Thundercats as a kid and like most of the episodes of this show. I like most of the designs -- and furriness aside, it's the good side of that coin, but the BG characters in this episode were just SO weak IMO and they didn't mesh with each other. Just a mess from my point of view. I like the main cast designs (especially Cheetara and many of the rest.

But that rabbit dude made my skull hurt.

I stand by my opinion that the writing was weak and predictable and subpar for this show. You should be open to others' opinions that are different than yours, and try to be less condescending. I "grasp" plenty, thank you very much. I don't "agree" with a story that feels weak to me. And that's a matter of opinion. I respect yours if you love this, even if I disagree.

I think this show was a big dip in quality. And hope the rest are better.

[RedAlert Rescue]

I only had th chance to watch the Episode today (Sunday) and I have to say from the pics and descriptions I was not expecting much. But I really enjoyed it - much more than the Tower of Omens ep even.

I liked the Rabbit's dialogue I'd guess the Rabbit was probably the same name as the sword as otherwise the only reason to call it the sword of H***** is because that was the name of his home village.

I'm really glad they didn't pretend you can make a good sword in a day.. that was a nice touch.

The only way it might have benifited a little is if Lion-O had not suddenly gained a new super power out of nowhere... If they had him use this on Mumm-Ra or Grune at some point then I'd really like it - then it wouldn't just be a bottle episode it would be adding to the plot.

As I often say Modern Thundercats is like a Japanese RPG Videogame this would be part of his training stage still.

However the whole Leo thing makes it a curious thought to ponder was it Leo who beat Mumm-Ra and lion-O was just along for the ride or Lion-O who raised his game to do so, he seemed to fight like Lion-O.

But I guess Leo's memories and Lion-O's must have lead to a gestalt that Lion-O was unaware of him doing anything he'd not otherwise do - even though it's a replayed Memory... an interesting question anyway.

Anyway - in short - me like (and Snarf was fun too) nice to see they implied the TC's can understand him too.

I suppose some small consolement can be gained from TF Prime coming back soon so just as Thundercats was entertainment while that was not on - perhaps the TCatters can watch that until it's back.

[Star Saber]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Dan Norton said last night in the crew chat that the show will have a 6 week break from new episodes.

What??? NOOOOOOO!!!

[Balgus82]

For the record anthropomorphic people are NOT furries. Furries are humans who dress up like anthropomorphic people.

[AnOldVagrant]

It sometimes surprises me how ignorant some can be. I personally thought that this was a delightful episode, for many reasons, one of which was Lion-O learning how to control his own gait in battle.

So, first of all, let's get the trifles out of the way. Furry hating is a thing of the past, these days you're going to look like a misanthropic gun stroker if you do it. To be honest, I'm far more creeped out by those who fetishise hate (toward any group of people) than I am by anyone else. Hate is not a system of mysticism or belief, you're only going to unnerve people by being so ardently and zealously misanthropic. Right?

With that out of the way... it's worth noting that a big cat has a number of tools at her or his disposal. One of which is speed, another is natural agility, and further is strength. A cat's agility comes naturally and requires the least amount of energy to be burned, their speed is fuelled by their strength, the power behind those muscles, and that can wear them out quickly too.

Lion-O was focusing on his strength, and like any big cat he was just wearing himself out quickly. What he learned in this episode was an important life lesson and a good bit of character building. Don't only live in the moment, but control the moment. He learned to utilise his agility to keep himself out of danger, and his senses sharp, ready to put his strength to use at the right moments instead of the wrong ones.

As a cat, the agility to dodge like that would have come naturally to him, but due to his pride as a lion, he focused solely on his strength believing that his strength would see him through. In future sword battles we'll see Lion-O controlling the moment instead of being easily controlled himself. How one can call a revelation like that 'filler' is entirely beyond me.

I thought the Drifter was an entirely charming character, too. Allusions to the Cheshire Cat would indeed be apt, he was somewhere between that, Usagi Yojimbo, and an old, burned out cowboy. The end result was very intriguing. The episode itself had a sort of Mad Max wastelands quality to it, and as a self-contained story it was told really well.

The Drifter himself likely had the skill to take down the Duellist long ago, having trained in order to defeat him, but also having taken one too many strikes to his confidence. Having the ability to defeat someone and the will to do so are two different things entirely, the Drifter just needed someone to show him that it was possible, that these things could be done, and in that moment he sprung back to life.

Lion-O managed to give someone his life back in that episode. And it was an interesting episode in general, showing some of the culture and the hardships outside of Lion-O's cushy city. Not every episode has to be about saving the world every week. That seems like such a limited way to think, so linear. It's nice sometimes to just have an episode where we see a character grow, and I feel that Lion-O really shined in this one.

The only crime will be if they don't make use of this in future sword battles, but I think they will.

This was just a side episode. In every 'epic' you have the little stories, what the characters are doing in their down time, what happens in between the huge battles, with the special effects of 'epic epicness' or what have you. And frankly, I often find these stories the most interesting, because they're the most revealing about the characters, whereas I find the 'epic' episodes to leave the characters feeling a bit one dimensional.

This, with Song of the Petalars, stands up there as one of my favourite episodes of this new Thundercats. May they keep fleshing out the characters in this way, because I appreciate it.

[zartanman]

I can't say how much I freaking love this show, love the Star Wars feel too. Episode 7 was the best yet. If any of you know me from other sites you know I'm a customizer. I got some crazy cool ideas for TC customs.

[Simbatron]

I agree, Song of the Petlulars was amazing, like I said, moved me tears.

[GrimlocksPS]

Seems to me that different people enjoy the show on different levels. Thats not a dig on peoples "perception" or level of "grasping" things.

We are all different and thats just nature.

I LOVED this episode and so did my wife who had no idea what a Thundercat was/is before watching this with me.

I didn't see the writing as weak on this episode it did seem less dense than the past few episodes but you kinda need that after a whole mess of story. Its no different to The Last Air Bender (which this show seems to get compared to alot) in that respect.

[Devinebull1978]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zartanman

I can't say how much I freaking love this show, love the Star Wars feel too. Episode 7 was the best yet. If any of you know me from other sites you know I'm a customizer. I got some crazy cool ideas for TC customs.

How about a StarWars TC hybrid ?

[Simbatron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimlocksPS

Seems to me that different people enjoy the show on different levels. Thats not a dig on peoples "perception" or level of "grasping" things.

We are all different and thats just nature.

I LOVED this episode and so did my wife who had no idea what a Thundercat was/is before watching this with me.

I didn't see the writing as weak on this episode it did seem less dense than the past few episodes but you kinda need that after a whole mess of story. Its no different to The Last Air Bender (which this show seems to get compared to alot) in that respect.

This episode reminded me way more of The Last Airbender than others. It's the some of the same creative team - so no questions there. The co-creator directed lots of Avatar eps.

The similarity to Airbender is probably why I didn't love this. I think Airbender was very well done - and I respect the work on it. But as an adult, it was aiming too low for me audience-wise. Aiming down at kids - or write at their level. The writing is obvious - as maybe it should be. I crave more. You might argue this is a dumb gripe since these are kids' shows. And I would understand. My boys watched and loved Airbender.

I like that certain of the new TC episodes are rising above Airbender IMO. Anyway, I'm glad to hear all POV's. Maybe I was too hard on it. Just didn't float my boat. Perhaps it strayed too much into literal wannabe anime territory for me (which Airbender did in spades).

Personal Taste is personal taste. Cheers

[PANTHRO HOOO]

I never watched airbender until a friend let me barrow his dvds. It was a great show to watch once. The story was real simple but they SIS a lot of cool things with elemental magic. Tc is definately deeper.

[Lord Lion O]

I'm betting that one of the swords that the rabbit is going to return to it's owner is the sword of plundar...and this episode isn't filler you just don't see how it connects yet. Just a guess tho so take it easy on me.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Lion O

I'm betting that one of the swords that the rabbit is going to return to it's owner is the sword of plundar...and this episode isn't filler you just don't see how it connects yet. Just a guess tho so take it easy on me.

Um...The Sword of Plunn-dar is Mumm-Ra's sword that he used in Legacy. How would the Duelist have won it from him while he was imprisoned and why would Mumm-Ra let him actually keep it if he did?

[Fuzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

I thought it was a good episode. It takes a break from the main plot, but further develops Lion-O's character. Don't forget, like in LOTR, the first 13 episodes will mostly be about Lion-O's spiritual journey, where he matures to be a good king - most likely culminating in the next two-parter "Lion-O's Trials".

My thoughts exactly. I don't think this episode was filler at all. I feel like there are two storylines happening simultaneously - the Thundercats quest (primary) and Lion-O's journey to becoming a noble king and warrior (secondary). Just because the primary storyline isn't included in an episode doesn't necessarily make it filler.

[Saint Phe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Um...The Sword of Plunn-dar is Mumm-Ra's sword that he used in Legacy. How would the Duelist have won it from him while he was imprisoned and why would Mumm-Ra let him actually keep it if he did?

He didn't take it into the sarcophagus with him at the end. It's possible that one of the animals took it with them out of the ship after the crash.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Phe

He didn't take it into the sarcophagus with him at the end. It's possible that one of the animals took it with them out of the ship after the crash.

Even so you can clearly see the hilts of all the swords in the shield and none of them are the same design or color as the Sword of Plunn-Dar.

[Saint Phe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Even so you can clearly see the hilts of all the swords in the shield and none of them are the same design or color as the Sword of Plunn-Dar.

Agreed. I was just saying Lord Lion-o's theory wasn't stupid.

[Lord Lion O]

Who said all the swords were showing? There is a sword missing....we know that, the sword of plundar. No one knows where it is...last time we saw it was on a ship that crashed and as stated above the sword was not in the crypt and if mum ra did have it would have used it. So we know he doesn't have it, we know the producers said there were no filler episodes, we know there was a guy who collected swords, we know there is a lost sword and now a guy returning all the said swords....I agree my theory isn't stupid.

[Lord Lion O]

Anybody have a better theory to where the sword would be after an episode about swords that ends with a guy returning swords?

[Thinktank]

Something to add to one's appreciation of the last episode. The Duelist was voiced by Miguel Ferrer. He is the son of Jose Ferrer. Jose Ferrer played 'Cyrano de Bergerac' in the 1964 film version about one the greatest fictional swordsmen of all time.

A further nod is in the Deulist's desgin, from the classic european attire to the very pronounced nose. It pleases me to see the creative team of this new series flex their thematic muscles like this. I think this will be one of the better shows for the next couple of years. Well I hope so...

[SerahGetzlaf15]

Finally got to see this episode - loved it. The Drifter was soooo awesome and I'm glad he was such an inspiration to Lion-O. Loved Snarf's antics in this episode as well - he really is too cute..

[rchrz60]

I think one good thing this show did was show that Lion-O needed to adapt his fighting style, and that he can't always rush in head first, but instead bend like the willow. It was interesting to see his development.

[Steelheart]

I really liked this episode. As someone who does martial arts and loves swords, I thought it was cool the show actually took an episode to address a bit of the philosophy of swordsmanship and focus on Lion-O's growing abilities. I love the duel animation in this ep. and the sword and stone-ish reference. It was nice how they acknowledged that forging a good sword takes time too and can't be done in one afternoon and how Drifter knew it would break. I LOVE Drifter btw. He's my favorite supporting character so far. He reminds me of a cross between Usagi Yojimbo (as someone already said) with the whimical wisdom and personality of a Jim Henson character. Specifically, Richard Hunt's Mudwell from Fraggle Rock''s episode "Gone But Not Forgotten" comes to mind.



This episode is another "lesson" episode like eps 3 & 4. But where 3 was cliched and clunky. 4 was beautiful in it's execution and I feel this episode was similarly done. In fact, ep 8 may be my favorite to date. Though Tower of Omens was pretty cool too. I hope all the Cats get character focus eps like this and that we'll see Drifter again maybe. Was this character ever in the original show?

I do wonder about the "hand of evil" thing from the original show some have mentioned already. Maybe it means that a evil person can't access the magic of the sword of omens as opposed to just wielding it as an ordinary sword blade in this new version.

Love Avatar: TLA btw one of the best cartoons of the past decade.