Thundercats Ep 18 Survival of the Fittest Discussion Thread

[Joe Moore]

Please use this thread to talk about Thundercats Episode 18: Survival of the Fittest. It airs Saturday April 21 at 9:30 AM on Cartoon Network.

[jksit1]

Anyone know any info on this episode? There has not been any previews etc??

[hollowdheart]

Not too impressed with this episode...and Panthro and Cheetara just abandon them? What kind of Aesop is this supposed to be?

[stormbringer]

Maybe Panthro and Cheetara can haul back the skunk monster?

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Maybe Panthro and Cheetara can haul back the skunk monster?

It's not a skunk monster, it's a molebadger.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

It's not a skunk monster, it's a molebadger.

My mistake!

[hollowdheart]

Didn't like a lot of things with this episode. I did like seeing the parents, but i thought it was kinda stupid how they just....left in the middle of the night so there's less mouths to feed. Not a good example given the age group this show targets and economic times right now for some families. We'll probably never find out what happened to the mom and siblings. And i thought Panthro and Cheetara abandoning two 8 year olds in a forest, was very irresponsible.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

Didn't like a lot of things with this episode. I did like seeing the parents, but i thought it was kinda stupid how they just....left in the middle of the night so there's less mouths to feed. Not a good example given the age group this show targets and economic times right now for some families. We'll probably never find out what happened to the mom and siblings. And i thought Panthro and Cheetara abandoning two 8 year olds in a forest, was very irresponsible.

Yeah I was wondering about that too. I mean, Panthro and Cheetara didn't know what was in that forest, and they left a couple of kids alone in it?

[SirSapphire]

You have to remember that Cheetara had a hard childhood herself and Panthro himself couldn't have had it easy first as a low-level grunt and later as a wanderer searching for the Book of Omens. That said, they are making assumptions about the twins that aren't exactly fair, and it seems that no one ever thought to ask the kids about their story, then again, did they ever think to ask for Tygra's or Cheetara's?

But they do have a point, the Kids rely too much on their cuteness to get people to do things for them that they probably could do for themselves, case in point: Foraging for food.

You have to realize that the cats have a different culture from us (which is half the fun of fantasy), and in their culture it probably isn't uncommon to except children around the age of ten or so to look after themselves, they've obviously done so before living in the slums, why not the forest too where there's food everywhere (if you know how to look for it).

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yeah I was wondering about that too. I mean, Panthro and Cheetara didn't know what was in that forest, and they left a couple of kids alone in it?

It's another one of those Jelenic's "amazing flower logic" in-action again.

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

You have to remember that Cheetara had a hard childhood herself and Panthro himself couldn't have had it easy first as a low-level grunt and later as a wanderer searching for the Book of Omens. That said, they are making assumptions about the twins that aren't exactly fair, and it seems that no one ever thought to ask the kids about their story, then again, did they ever think to ask for Tygra's or Cheetara's?

Living in the slums is completely different than being stuck in a forest with unknown animals that could have eaten them.

[SirSapphire]

A thief is still a hunter and relies on many of the same skills, they just don't kill their prey (usually). Yes the forest is different from the slums, but many of the same skills still apply.

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

A thief is still a hunter and relies on many of the same skills, they just don't kill their prey (usually). Yes the forest is different from the slums, but many of the same skills still apply.

The twins are pickpockets, and we've only seen them fight, i think, once? The only reason they survived in the forest versus the molebadger was because of the Flupe, Klink thing and luck. They don't have any other weapons -- no super arms like Panthro (why he didn't use them is beyond me), a Staff like Cheetara (again, she only uses it when she thinks they're about to be attacked.) All the have is musical weapon and a grappling hook thing.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

The twins are pickpockets, and we've only seen them fight, i think, once? The only reason they survived in the forest versus the molebadger was because of the Flupe, Klink thing and luck. They don't have any other weapons -- no super arms like Panthro (why he didn't use them is beyond me), a Staff like Cheetara (again, she only uses it when she thinks they're about to be attacked.) All the have is musical weapon and a grappling hook thing.

And yet in the hands of skilled users they are weapons enough to subdue foes much larger and stronger than them.

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

And yet in the hands of skilled users they are weapons enough to subdue foes much larger and stronger than them.

I just chalk that up to the show not wanting to go too far....but if the kids had been older, i wouldn't have a problem. But they're 8 years old and tiny, not athletic like Cheetara, or hardened by war like Panthro. They're kids, and abandoning them in a forest to fend for themselves (because they messed up the plans for food and didn't want to kill an animal) seems horrible to me. What if the Lizards had passed through and caught them?

[Tracer]

Didn't Kit tell the Elephants that her Mom died when they were talking about the Lullaby?

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

I just chalk that up to the show not wanting to go too far....but if the kids had been older, i wouldn't have a problem. But they're 8 years old and tiny, not athletic like Cheetara, or hardened by war like Panthro. They're kids, and abandoning them in a forest to fend for themselves (because they messed up the plans for food and didn't want to kill an animal) seems horrible to me. What if the Lizards had passed through and caught them?

I think the Lizard forces will be conveniently "regrouping" until the season finale.

[Balgus82]

Lion-O told the kids before they even joined the team that they're not baby sitting them. They have to be a useful part of the team. They let the kids go into battle with them and you think foraging for food is too dangerous?

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer

Didn't Kit tell the Elephants that her Mom died when they were talking about the Lullaby?

She said the mom had died? Unless it's retconned....cause i thought in Ramlak they said they had no where to go? So unless they're siblings are dead too they could have gone back home.....

[Balgus82]

they could easily think their family died during the attack

[L08e16o]

Even if you didn't like the episode, we still are getting the back ground of the characters.

I thought is was funny when Kat kicked Panthro into the trap and kit made cheetara fall.

So is the city they are looking for, could it be the new thunderia? If their family is dead, I hope lion-o adopts them.

Seems like cheetara is up next for fleshing. I wouldn't be surprise if pumyra and cheetara grew up together.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I wouldn't be surprise if pumyra and cheetara grew up together.

That's a thought that I hadn't considered. We don't know anything about Cheetara before she joined the Clerics so it's possible.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

That's a thought that I hadn't considered. We don't know anything about Cheetara before she joined the Clerics so it's possible.

She is the only one we haven't got a story on.

[Tracer]

I did like the episode. The kids are easily my favorite characters on the show. Twice I literally laughed out loud. Once when he said "I think they want us to fight to the the death" and the 2nd time is when Kit kicked Cheetara off the branch. I like these slower paced episodes. I've always said they are the heart of the show.

[Kregermeister]

Good episode, but can I not feed depressed for one week please? I want action and adventure mixed in! Other than Legacy, I havent really seen that UMPH in the action department to even think that a toy line would be good with kids.... might as well watch lifetime for women...... damn..... lol.

[Thunderian scholar]

I loved that episode, more backstories about the kittens! Hope they'll show either the progress of Tygra and Lion-O or more of Panthro's past.

[fuukonomiko]

I liked the backstory and it really made me cry when their father passed away. While logic tells us that it probably wasn't smart of them to run away from home, we have to think that kids don't always think things through. Their immediate concern was that, they don't want Mom to have hard time trying to feed all four of them, and that they wanted to help her.

As for Panthro and Cheetara leaving them there, well it was rather concerning, but they did go with them the first time around. They also wanted them to learn how to fend for themselves in case the older cats died. Also, if we remember, the kids battled side by side with against the massive lizard army in the elephant village. They didn't tell the kids to hide with the elephants. In the beginning of episode 14, Kit and Kat were also used as bait to lead those lizards to where Lion-O and the gang were hiding. So much as we are horrified that these kids were left to fend for themselves, this isn't the first time. The battle with the lizards were just as, as if not more dangerous than the forest. I think that in this situations, it's eat or be eaten.

[Singe]

Wilykat: Times are tough, but were going to have to do anything we can to survive.
Wilykit: I know, but I just don't like this guy. Do we really have to?
Wilykat: I'm sorry sis, he paid us for the whole day.
??????: Enough talking, now sing.
Wilykat/Wilykat: I love you, you love me. We're a happy family. With a great big hug And a kiss from me to you, Won't you say you love me too?
Barney: Yes, yes. It pleases me.

Wilykit: We gotta hide. *Grabs Wilykat behind a barrel.*
Wilykat: Why?
Wilykit: Look. *Points to a male cat dressed in black robes with a white collar.*
Wilykat: *Shivers* Is that a......?
Wilykit: A Cat-holic. Mom told me they kidnap kittens to sell to other buyers.
Wilykat: Hey, where did he go?
*Gets tapped on the shoulder.*
Priest: Pardon me, might you children be in need of.......
Wilykat: AHHHHHHHHH! He's right behind us.
Wilykit: Run!
Priest: Wait! They're gone, I wonder what spooked them.

[Ravenxl7]

I definitely enjoyed this episode. I like that Panthro and Cheetara were involved too, rather than just the kittens. Helps explain what the rest of the team were doing when Lion-O and Tygra were off on their little mission.

It was nice to see what the kids had been through. Was interesting to find out that their not actually orphans, and that they ran away from home. Given the reasons they left, it makes me wonder why they aren't bringing up Eldara as much as they can.

Was nice to see their parents. Sort of gives you an idea of what the kittens could look like as adults. Was interesting to see that they've got two younger siblings. Was sad to see the father die like that. With what happened, I'm curious to see if their mother and siblings could still be alive (we don't know what happened to them when Thundera was attacked).

The two animal species featured in this episode were really interesting. I'd love to see that skunk/pig thing made into toy-form. Would at least be nice to know what they're called (I'll be asking the crew that here shortly).

All-in-all a really good episode. Went in a different direction than I thought it was going to, but that's a good thing. Can't wait to meet Pumyra in next week's episode.

[Singe]

Just a thought, can someone run through episode 1 or 2 where the city gets bombarded and the crowd runs into the shelter that got destroyed. Just to see if there was a mom with 2 kids that might be them.

[Mongor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Just a thought, can someone run through episode 1 or 2 where the city gets bombarded and the crowd runs into the shelter that got destroyed. Just to see if there was a mom with 2 kids that might be them.

Ep.2, 2:39 into it and no, I didn't see them.

[vantheman77]

After so much focus on Lion-O, this episode marks the first without he and Tygra and it's refreshing here. The focus is on Wilykit and Wilykat when they hunt down for food and both Panthro and Cheetara were playing surrogate parents to them. Because of the twins reluctance to eat other animals, both Panthro and Cheetara basically abandoned them. We get to see how the twins came to Thundera and why they were searching for the treasure city of El Dara. They're not exactly orphans as they still have family that's out there. It's a good heartfelt episode for the series.

[SirSapphire]

Am I the only one who thought Cheetara was a sexy beast all dirtied up and crawling around on that tree branch?

[Kregermeister]

Just watched it again.... still feel kinda bumed out about today, after last week I think we needed a pick me up. I do love the story, but im still lost how this would appeal to kids at all.

(And no, im not being a knit picky bitch, im just being honest)

As a child what I loved was every episode was 50/50. Even when Tygra was tripping balls on Silkys acid, we got a prayer to satan out of him and Lion-O kicked everyones ass at the end. Show lasted 130+.

This show is being very detailed and well done, but for adults... this might as well be direct to bluray or adult swim material for their anime blocks. If kids are learning anything from this, great, but if they wanted to play with the toys and roleplay stuff they might as well make Thundercats Xanax and Thundercats wrist razors to deal with these issues lol.

Now excuse me, im gunna go watch Jaguara rebuilt Thundera randomly and make no sence, only to have Lion-O beat up a ton of people and give a cheesey laugh at the end.

[mihoshi]

LOVED this episode, as Kit and Kat are my faves. I was expecting the entire family to die in that tornado, surprised that the mom and two younger sibs lived.

Kit and Kat left for two reasons, 1) less mouths to feed, and 2) find the city of riches. Now that they've hooked up with Lion-O and company, what better way to find a lost city? They are exploring all of Third Earth! I think this is why they haven't mentioned their mom, they are playing the waiting game, and seeing where this journey takes them. Of course, we also don't know how long Kit and Kat were in Thundera before it was attacked. Maybe they decided to go back home at one point and their mom/sibs were gone? Anyway, I'm sure we will see more of their family in the future one way or another.

[xhavoc86]

i really liked this episode, the backstory of Wilykat and Wilykit was good! i hope they reunite with their mother eventually...

[Singe]

Speaking of which a nice plus for Cheetara to be on the same page as Panthro. They pretty much put their foot down on dealing with silly tom foolery in their eyes with Wilykit and Wilykat.

I'm going to go here.

If Lion-O and Tygra didn't have Lord of the Thundercats and royalty titles, Panthro and Cheetara wouldn't have put up with their tom foolery also.

[RedAlert Rescue]

No one said "Whiskers" in this Episode but if you watch this weeks Rescue Bots ep you will get plenty of 'Whiskers' (grin).

Nice episode - I'll be interested to see if we will get another flash back to show that they got the rest of their Family Killed through some stupidity or if they will just never mention it again ?

I keep wondering if there's still some cats about (more than the tiny numbers of them we see) such as hiding underground, in caves or enslaved to some lizards some place as it gives the kits parents and siblings some place to be other than dead.

If only because the Thundercats themselves are not really representative of a whole set of sub-species of cats.

I notice there's more than one sort of Lizard or Reptile too - perhaps they will show someone who's even bigger an meaner than Slyth who's like a crocodile or a Turtle.

Oh and isn't it odd that there's a complete lack of Humans in this show - unless you count the Swordsman or Mumm-Ra as one ? There was quite a few of human an near human races in the original show. Not to mention things like Unicorns too.

I'd like to know what other animal like races their might be that might lay outside the ones we have seen so far.

I would guess the Snowman would count as some sort of ape for example if he's ever used (i'm guessing he will as I've seen a picture of him).

[SirSapphire]

I liked that this episode happened during "Native Son" It's nice to see the sort of things that happens on a "day off" so to speak.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedAlert Rescue

No one said "Whiskers" in this Episode but if you watch this weeks Rescue Bots ep you will get plenty of 'Whiskers' (grin).

Nice episode - I'll be interested to see if we will get another flash back to show that they got the rest of their Family Killed through some stupidity or if they will just never mention it again ?

I keep wondering if there's still some cats about (more than the tiny numbers of them we see) such as hiding underground, in caves or enslaved to some lizards some place as it gives the kits parents and siblings some place to be other than dead.

If only because the Thundercats themselves are not really representative of a whole set of sub-species of cats.

I notice there's more than one sort of Lizard or Reptile too - perhaps they will show someone who's even bigger an meaner than Slyth who's like a crocodile or a Turtle.

Oh and isn't it odd that there's a complete lack of Humans in this show - unless you count the Swordsman or Mumm-Ra as one ? There was quite a few of human an near human races in the original show. Not to mention things like Unicorns too.

I'd like to know what other animal like races their might be that might lay outside the ones we have seen so far.

I would guess the Snowman would count as some sort of ape for example if he's ever used (i'm guessing he will as I've seen a picture of him).

The third earth in the OS was a future of our earth, so that would explain why there were humans there. But it is curious why the third earth of this series is called that, since its an alien world.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The third earth in the OS was a future of our earth, so that would explain why there were humans there. But it is curious why the third earth of this series is called that, since its an alien world.

Maybe it's the third moon orbiting the gas giant we see in the sky from time to time.

[fuukonomiko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Am I the only one who thought Cheetara was a sexy beast all dirtied up and crawling around on that tree branch?

That and her expression/reaction when she almost fell off of it...uh wrong! Just like not being able to get your sword working

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko

That and her expression/reaction when she almost fell off of it...uh wrong! Just like not being able to get your sword working

Yeah, she's a baaaaaaaaad kitty!

[Eclipse]

You two hentais... *shakes head*

[Mum Star]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The third earth in the OS was a future of our earth, so that would explain why there were humans there. But it is curious why the third earth of this series is called that, since its an alien world.

I wonder If Mumm-Ra still remembers first earth?

My theory is that first earth was where Mumm-Ra was born. Second Earth was where the seat of his power was. And everyone just decided to call this planet third earth when they got stuck on it.

If they do use the Silverhawks, or Mandora, or pretty much anything spacefaring, we might see humans then.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

You two hentais... *shakes head*

I didn't hear you complaining about the vaguely homoerotic subtext of Tygra and Lion-O's relationship.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The third earth in the OS was a future of our earth, so that would explain why there were humans there. But it is curious why the third earth of this series is called that, since its an alien world.

Its the planet of the apes third earth i guess and atticus' father isthe ruler of the planet

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mum Star

I wonder If Mumm-Ra still remembers first earth?

My theory is that first earth was where Mumm-Ra was born. Second Earth was where the seat of his power was. And everyone just decided to call this planet third earth when they got stuck on it.

If they do use the Silverhawks, or Mandora, or pretty much anything spacefaring, we might see humans then.

Maybe not the tiger sharks were human in the original not sure what they are in this one

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

I didn't hear you complaining about the vaguely homoerotic subtext of Tygra and Lion-O's relationship.

Where?

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Its the planet of the apes third earth i guess and atticus' father isthe ruler of the planet

Clearly the ape society was put down because of their overuse of advanced biological germ warfare.