Thundercats Ep 19 The Pit Discussion

[Singe]

The enslaved Thunderians start talking about Democracy over the Monarachy Government that failed big time.

It would have been interesting to see Tygra in place of Lion-O against Pumyra.

Pumyra: Stay down.
Lion-O: I won't. I will stand by your....
Tygra: Kick him in the groin!
Lion-O: *Kicked in the groin.* AHHHHHH!
Cheetara: Tygra?!
Tygra: We should enjoy this while we can before she becomes one of us.
Panthro: Use a Rear-Naked Choke on him!
Lion-O: Panthro?! *Starts to choke.*
Pumyra: No, I won't kill my ......
*Chair flies into the Pit knocking Lion-O out.*
Cheetara: Woooooooo! Take that you pussycat!

[Balgus82]

I think the Thunderians might not trust Lion-O at first glance, but I think both Pumyra (who was a former slave there) and Tygra speaking up in his favor would win them over.

And yeah I'm not sure if I like her bow and arrow thing either. It seems to me a real life version would be really awkward to work with.

[Pravus Prime]

OK episode. I guess I'll keep watching for now.

[SirSapphire]

Good to know that Panthro and Dobo worked things out, The Cats need as many allies as they can get and it would have sucked hard if they sided with Mumm-Ra. It was also nice to see that the racism was presented not only as something mutual, but was also mutually wrong It seemed to be mostly Tygra's thing (well, he started it at least), so he's got some more lessons to learn.

[L08e16o]

Question.

Dobo said you train your soldiers well, is pumyra a soldiers? He was referring to pumyra when he said that.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Question.

Dobo said you train your soldiers well, is pumyra a soldiers? He was referring to pumyra when he said that.

I don't think she was a soldier initially. We may find out later that she indeed was training to be a healer or doctor before the fall, but life as a slave taught her how to fight in order to survive, often brutally. She is seen bandaging his arm at the end of the episode, anyone could have done that but it was a nice nod to her job in the 80's series.

[KaleRylan]

Hmm... i liked it, but it also bugged me. The whole issue with the other cats makes me feel... weird. I can't really put my finger on it, but its weird. They never really showed what happened to the cats. So we're left wondering. Was it obvious that they were alive and could have been saved? Did the thundercats basically abandon their people? Or was their nothing they could do? Were they waiting to save their people.

We can't say, it's never been mentioned. And bringing it up now, after all this time, does make them seem like they didn't care.

[SPINMASTER X]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. My only complaint is I would have liked just a bit more out of it. Like was brought up previously, where were the other cats? I kinda wish the episodes would be set up more like Dragonball episodes(minus the fluff and filler).

I love how it was a shout out to the Dogs of War comic book fans. As soon as I saw Dobo I was like "hell yeah"! I wouldn't mind seeing some more comic book references because I thoroughly enjoyed them.

p.s. would anyone else like a little more action? The action isn't delivering like I wanted it to. I'm kinda slightly over the fact that I'm watching Thundercats again so now I want more out of it.

[Lunchie]

You know, a thought just occurred to me. There are other races on Third Earth, I wonder if there ever been an incident with a interracial romance. Like a lizard falling for a dog or a dog falling for a cat? I think that would be an interesting subject to approach, even as a side note in a future episode.

Anyway, I like the episode but did anybody else ask "Okay, first a jungle, then a forest, then a mountain, then a snowy mountain, now a dessert. Third earth has some oddly mashed together climate areas"

[Lunchie]

I know they needed supplies from the dog town, but for what? Did they establish where they were actually going? Are they still following a stone's trail or do they have a different destination in mind.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

I don't think she was a soldier initially. We may find out later that she indeed was training to be a healer or doctor before the fall, but life as a slave taught her how to fight in order to survive, often brutally. She is seen bandaging his arm at the end of the episode, anyone could have done that but it was a nice nod to her job in the 80's series.

She could be a military medic. They have to go through basic training just like any other solider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

Hmm... i liked it, but it also bugged me. The whole issue with the other cats makes me feel... weird. I can't really put my finger on it, but its weird. They never really showed what happened to the cats. So we're left wondering. Was it obvious that they were alive and could have been saved? Did the thundercats basically abandon their people? Or was their nothing they could do? Were they waiting to save their people.

We can't say, it's never been mentioned. And bringing it up now, after all this time, does make them seem like they didn't care.

They still have their priorities. It's not that they don't care about the other cats, but what good is spending all your time freeing your people if the one who defeated your entire kingdom in a day and enslaved them is still out there and able to do it all over again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPINMASTER X

I love how it was a shout out to the Dogs of War comic book fans. As soon as I saw Dobo I was like "hell yeah"! I wouldn't mind seeing some more comic book references because I thoroughly enjoyed them.

Dobo wasn't based on anyone from the comics. Dan said so himself on FB. He said he's never even read the comics. They only look similar because they happen to be based on the same breed of dog. There's only so many ways you can draw a doberman head. Even real life dobermans all look alike.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

I don't think she was a soldier initially. We may find out later that she indeed was training to be a healer or doctor before the fall, but life as a slave taught her how to fight in order to survive, often brutally. She is seen bandaging his arm at the end of the episode, anyone could have done that but it was a nice nod to her job in the 80's series.

I agree, it was a nod to her job in the 80s.

She is very skilled.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Even real life dobermans all look alike.

I find that racist.

[fuukonomiko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

I find that racist.

Don't dogs go by species?

So that's speciest.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPINMASTER X

I enjoyed this episode a lot. My only complaint is I would have liked just a bit more out of it. Like was brought up previously, where were the other cats? I kinda wish the episodes would be set up more like Dragonball episodes(minus the fluff and filler).

I love how it was a shout out to the Dogs of War comic book fans. As soon as I saw Dobo I was like "hell yeah"! I wouldn't mind seeing some more comic book references because I thoroughly enjoyed them.

p.s. would anyone else like a little more action? The action isn't delivering like I wanted it to. I'm kinda slightly over the fact that I'm watching Thundercats again so now I want more out of it.

Yes more action please

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Great episode. I wonder how the other Thunderians who are enslaved at Plundarr, will respond to Lion-o? Probably not any better than Pumyra did at first.

Well if lion-o got to use the sword pumyra would've shut her mouth like panthro did way back in ep 5 I would guess the thunderians will react the same way once the see the sword in action

[Singe]

The biggest flaw for the episode was how quickly Pumyra just flipped to loyal at the end by just letting her beat Lion-O up until she got over it.

Anyone noticed the point of the Panthro trial came in to use in this episode.

Well winning the trust of the people should be earned by his words and actions, not a magical sword that is the symbol of the kingdom. The wielder of the sword could be a complete tyrant but the people would still have to be loyal if the sword is the only point of loyalty.

[KaleRylan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

They still have their priorities. It's not that they don't care about the other cats, but what good is spending all your time freeing your people if the one who defeated your entire kingdom in a day and enslaved them is still out there and able to do it all over again?

No. Just no. For a couple of reasons.

1. That's defeatist. You're arguing that he beat them, so they can't take a chance on winning. Except that's the entire plot of the show.

2. A king's priority is always his people. Plus, how much more powerful would he be with an army at his back?

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

No. Just no. For a couple of reasons.

1. That's defeatist. You're arguing that he beat them, so they can't take a chance on winning. Except that's the entire plot of the show.

2. A king's priority is always his people. Plus, how much more powerful would he be with an army at his back?

The problem with that is :

1. He did beat them. Thundera fell pure and simple and Mumm-Ra won. Why do you think the Cats cherry pick their battles so much? It's not defeatist so much as it is a simple fact.

2. Lion-O simply doesn't have an army, not yet. From what we've seen we must assume that most if not all of the soldier were wiped out and there are only civilians left to either flee into hiding or be taken as slaves. If there's still an army out there why are the core Thundercats the only resistance that Mumm-Ra and his Generals are concerned with? If Lynx-O survived (you know he did! Duh!) that's another general on their side but one general and a bunch of oppressed slaves are not an army.

[KaleRylan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

The problem with that is :

1. He did beat them. Thundera fell pure and simple and Mumm-Ra won. Why do you think the Cats cherry pick their battles so much? It's not defeatist so much as it is a simple fact.

2. Lion-O simply doesn't have an army, not yet. From what we've seen we must assume that most if not all of the soldier were wiped out and there are only civilians left to either flee into hiding or be taken as slaves. If there's still an army out there why are the core Thundercats the only resistance that Mumm-Ra and his Generals are concerned with? If Lynx-O survived (you know he did! Duh!) that's another general on their side but one general and a bunch of oppressed slaves are not an army.

1. That's irrelevant. The whole freaking plot of the show is the rematch. The argument you're making could be made about the THundercats themselves. They already lost even though they had Claudus, and they had an army. Why do six-seven cats think they can succeed when their empire failed? The answer is they're going to try anyway, 'logic' be damned.

2. This is also not a good answer. The Thundercats are not a spec ops squad. They take the cats they find. The Kittens are a couple of impoverished pickpockets. They took them anyway, because they're cats and they're not going to leave them. Furthermore, you're putting words in the Thundercats' mouths.

There was never a mention of the lost cats before, the Thundercats never said they were waiting for the right time to go save their enslaved brethren, they never said anything about them. And even more proof that that wasn't the plan is this episode itself. Lion-o didn't avoid rescuing Pumyra because 'it's not the time.' The moment he heard about her, he was dead set on saving her. Sure, she's a warrior, but that is not why he saved her, he didn't know that the instant he saw her.

Furthermore, at the end he didn't say to Pumyra 'no we can't save the others, we have to get the stone.' He said that they're going to go save them immediately because now he knows.

Face it. It's a plot hole. He never cared about or mentioned the other cats before, and now that they've been mentioned to him it's suddenly priority number one. It would have made more sense if he would have at least said 'no, I need to get the stone first.' But he didn't. Oh, and oppressed slaves have spent a lot of real history proving that they CAN be a useful army if their freedom is on the line.

[RedAlert Rescue]

Tigra got his dads Whip. Cheetara got a Magic stick, Lion-O's got the sword of Omens

The kitts just lost their toys so will they get magical replacements too or will they get them back "Off-Camera" or in a later episode meet the Racoon again?

And is this show shy of Nunchuku and decided to make do with bendy arms for Panthro instead.

Funny that Panthro's old friend didn't say "Hey Panthro what happened to your arms?"

And no one asked how many battle's she'd thought... she could have been on Number 99.

If she'd killed that many people in the arena she's probably killed more people than Tigra, Cheetara The kitts and Lion put together. who may have just wasted a few Lizards so far.

I doubt few can beat Panthro's body count though. it must be higher than Grune's even was. Depending on who you attribute the cat dead too.

I've always thought that there would be cat survivors even though the towns they visit seem to show otherwise.

So I just put it down to a plot quirk.

[Singe]

Got to face it, a portion of the slaves would still have belief in the king and the others won't, regardless if Lion-O flashes his sword. He'll have to prove himself to them.

There better be some flashback to show how a portion of the populace got captured.

[Joe Moore]

Thundercats Episode 19 The Pit Review

Thundercats Ep 19 High Definition Screen Caps

Enjoy folks. Thanks for checking them out.

[vantheman77]

I feel Pumyra will join the Thundercats team just like any other cat they introduce such as the twins, Panthro, and now Pumyra. The Thundercats need to expand their ranks if they hope to deal with Mumm-Ra and his evil army. I can also see that Lion-O is taller than Pumyra while he and Cheetara are the same height.

I also want to see how Pumyra fits in with the other Thundercats when she joins them.

[CreepySariFan]

I'm a bit inclined to say that the Twins sidestory may be necessary for a future episode. Tookit apparently still has the Twins gear (Wilykit's Flute and Wilykat's Flink), so that's basically telling everyone that the payoff of Tookit's "klepto-voyance" hasn't run its course.

I also feel that Tookit ends up being a more believable character than Quick Pick from the OS ever was.

[CreepySariFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Ok the needing the cane, blanket, and button thing was kinda stupid. If he hadn't stolen them he wouldn't have needed them.

He needed those things to con the Twins long enough to make his own, personal escape.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

Face it. It's a plot hole. He never cared about or mentioned the other cats before, and now that they've been mentioned to him it's suddenly priority number one. It would have made more sense if he would have at least said 'no, I need to get the stone first.' But he didn't. Oh, and oppressed slaves have spent a lot of real history proving that they CAN be a useful army if their freedom is on the line.

It seemed to me like he didn't know there were survivors. It's not a plot hole. How can you rescue someone if you don't know where they are?

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedAlert Rescue

If she'd killed that many people in the arena she's probably killed more people than Tigra, Cheetara The kitts and Lion put together. who may have just wasted a few Lizards so far.

From the way Panthro talked it seemed to me like every match isn't a Death match. I mean she didn't kill the wrecking ball guy, she just incapacitated him.

[Mum Star]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan

I'm a bit inclined to say that the Twins sidestory may be necessary for a future episode. Tookit apparently still has the Twins gear (Wilykit's Flute and Wilykat's Flink), so that's basically telling everyone that the payoff of Tookit's "klepto-voyance" hasn't run its course.

I also feel that Tookit ends up being a more believable character than Quick Pick from the OS ever was.

Hey Quick Pick was awesome because of how bizzare he was. To be the best pickpocket in the universe with clamps for hands must take serous skill!

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan

He needed those things to con the Twins long enough to make his own, personal escape.

And in the end he got money out of it, so the whole con was pretty useful despite the trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

It seemed to me like he didn't know there were survivors. It's not a plot hole. How can you rescue someone if you don't know where they are?

And Lion-O had higher orders. Jaga told him to search for the book and the book told him to search for the stones and unite the animals. Remember what happens every time Lion-O ignores very clear directions ("Ramlak Rising," "The Duelist and the Drifter," or pretty much every pre-Trials episode anyone?). He didn't like it any more than anyone else, but searching for other cats simply was not his highest priority no matter how much he or anyone else wanted it to be. Like he said, he did what he had to do to keep fighting.

[Jack-Pumpkinhead]

This was a good episode. I liked the frickin raccoon, Pumyra, and at the end- Mount Plun-Darr. Oh heck yeah! You know it's gonna look like Castle Plun-Darr.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mum Star

Hey Quick Pick was awesome because of how bizzare he was. To be the best pickpocket in the universe with clamps for hands must take serous skill!

Agree. I quite liked Quick Pick. And honestly if they're not saving him for a Mandora episode I would've thrown him in this episode as the master thief instead of the Raccoon guy.

[AlexofThundera]

Finally got to watch the episode last night. I did like it, but as others have already stated something was off.

The side story with the twins was not bad, I enjoyed it, however it was in the wrong episode. I felt it took away precious time from the introduction of Pumyra and her back story, which we really needed (and I think a lot of us wanted). Flashbacks to Pumyra and the other cats trying to survive and escape the fall of Thundera would have been a welcome addition. Actually seeing what the other cats had to endure fleeing Thundera, and that they subsequently ended up as slaves would make us feel bad for them and even more important, hate (even though we really love him) Mummra.

Also the battle between Pumyra and Lion-O was resolved way too quickly. We are led to believe she absolutely despises him and yet in a matter of minutes announces her loyalty to him? And the dogs chanting "let them live" made no sense because of how quickly the battle was resolved. Dobo even mentions how rare it is for them to see two cats duke it out. I would think the dogs would feel cheated out of a fight with no victor and actually chant something else. Maybe I've been watching too much Spartacus?

And yeah, if instead of tookit it would have been Quick pick, that would have been epic. I'm looking forward to next weeks episode though that is for sure. Who knows "who" might be amongst the cat slaves.

[AlexofThundera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mum Star

Hey Quick Pick was awesome because of how bizzare he was. To be the best pickpocket in the universe with clamps for hands must take serous skill!

And in all honestly he wasn't really all the much of a "bad guy", he just couldn't help himself to picking pockets.

[Sining]

Finally had some time to catch up with Tcats. In general, I didn't quite like the episode. There were too many little issues with it that bugged me

1) Seriously tcats, your king has been captured and enslaved and the only one who seems indignant is Panthro?? Cheetara even talks in a monotone in that scene. I guess since it's not Mumm-ra that captured him, it's okay -_-
2) WTF Pumyra. Someone comes and tries to rescue you, you basically spit in his face, get him captured and then go off on a rant about 'Y U NO RESCUE US CATS!!!?!?!' Shit, Panthro wanted to LEAVE YOU BEHIND while Lion-O was the only one who actually went 'no, we don't leave tcats behind' *Btw, why does everyone seem to forget that little lesson EVERYTIME it's convenient??*
3) The tcats are really really calm even when Lion-O is being beaten and it seems like Pumyra is about to kill Lion-O.

Okay, and seriously wth is the monster that's fighting in the first round? Is it an organic being? A robot? I'm leaning towards robot since it can detach its own head. But if so, it's like the most advanced robot I've seen in the show and that's including the giant mechs the lizards use. To be able to create a small-scale combat robot, why has its inventor not used it to conquer the world???

And the creators of the show really really need to learn about how proper combat works. Throwing a bolo that somehow manages to knock an axe up in the air? Wut????

[Lody]

Meh

Episode was ok-wasn't as thrilling as it should have been

[AlexofThundera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Okay, and seriously wth is the monster that's fighting in the first round? Is it an organic being? A robot? I'm leaning towards robot since it can detach its own head. But if so, it's like the most advanced robot I've seen in the show and that's including the giant mechs the lizards use. To be able to create a small-scale combat robot, why has its inventor not used it to conquer the world???

There wasn't enough back story on the robot. Looking at the screen shots it does "appear" organic in form but I think it's mostly robotic, and apparently derives its energy from electricity.

From what we saw all of the fighters in the arena are slaves, so is this beast also a slave? If so it would mean it was captured and unable to break free which wouldn't make it so advanced. I suspect it was created for the games and not an actual slave.

From the way Pumyra put it out of commission, it seems that the body is defenseless while the head is rolling around.

[Sining]

so...if the robot actually had weapons and didn't have to keep throwing its head around, it'd be invincible

[AlexofThundera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

so...if the robot actually had weapons and didn't have to keep throwing its head around, it'd be invincible

Well yeah it would be a lot more of an adversary. Honestly it was really dumb for the first 3 fighters to just stand there like bowling pins waiting to get knocked over. While the head went after 1 of them, the other 2 could have thrown their weapons into the robot and shorted it out.

Maybe it was the first time they ever fought the robot though so maybe they didn't know how to take it down? I don't think that was stated, if the robot had fought before or not.

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Finally had some time to catch up with Tcats. In general, I didn't quite like the episode. There were too many little issues with it that bugged me

1) Seriously tcats, your king has been captured and enslaved and the only one who seems indignant is Panthro?? Cheetara even talks in a monotone in that scene. I guess since it's not Mumm-ra that captured him, it's okay -_-
2) WTF Pumyra. Someone comes and tries to rescue you, you basically spit in his face, get him captured and then go off on a rant about 'Y U NO RESCUE US CATS!!!?!?!' Shit, Panthro wanted to LEAVE YOU BEHIND while Lion-O was the only one who actually went 'no, we don't leave tcats behind' *Btw, why does everyone seem to forget that little lesson EVERYTIME it's convenient??*
3) The tcats are really really calm even when Lion-O is being beaten and it seems like Pumyra is about to kill Lion-O.

Okay, and seriously wth is the monster that's fighting in the first round? Is it an organic being? A robot? I'm leaning towards robot since it can detach its own head. But if so, it's like the most advanced robot I've seen in the show and that's including the giant mechs the lizards use. To be able to create a small-scale combat robot, why has its inventor not used it to conquer the world???

And the creators of the show really really need to learn about how proper combat works. Throwing a bolo that somehow manages to knock an axe up in the air? Wut????

1. Panthro said it himself right there, they couldn't afford to make war with the dogs. Outnumbered, outgunned, and if Lion-O wants his army against Mumm-ra he can't go around making enemies. However Lion-O the king went, "La la la. I'm not listening to you." He is responsible for the consequences of pulling these stunts. Idiot didn't even bother to have Panthro negotiate for Pumyra.

2. Pumyra's attitude has justification. She was captured, seen the kingdom fall, worked as a slave, and sold to fight in a pit. She's pretty much given up on the King to save her past this point and decided earn her own freedom with no help from anyone. To her, here comes Lion-O out of no where better late than never bringing a Thundertank load of promises and good things. She's already living in hell and he was just pushing her buttons.

3. Well for the three of them, they were in no place to do anything at that point. Their little struggle would have gotten them all captured, lose all chance of having the dogs on their side against Mumm-ra, and Pumyra wouldn't join them. Remember, Lion-O made the decision to do this solo and he deals with the consequences of choosing this action. Plus, Lion-O was choosing not to fight in the first place, if he can't defend himself then he shouldn't be leading the Thundercats.

[MONSTAR]

i love how they introduced Pumyra....i hated her in the old series but she was badass in this episode i hope she keeps her attitude in future episodes...i wonder if by her saying that there were more thundarians in mount plun dar she means bengali and lynxo will appear next.....i sure hope so ...

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MONSTAR

i love how they introduced Pumyra....i hated her in the old series but she was badass in this episode i hope she keeps her attitude in future episodes...i wonder if by her saying that there were more thundarians in mount plun dar she means bengali and lynxo will appear next.....i sure hope so ...

Be nice if they are there.

Lynxo, Bengali, and Pumyra form a cat army while the others go after the rest of the stones.

[Singe]

*Pumyra knocks Lion-O down.*
Shao Khan: FINISH HIM!!
Pumyra: *Drops her weapon.* No, I will not kill my King.
Shao Khan: You're pathetic.

[Sining]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

1. Panthro said it himself right there, they couldn't afford to make war with the dogs. Outnumbered, outgunned, and if Lion-O wants his army against Mumm-ra he can't go around making enemies. However Lion-O the king went, "La la la. I'm not listening to you." He is responsible for the consequences of pulling these stunts. Idiot didn't even bother to have Panthro negotiate for Pumyra.

So your answer is for Lion-O to abandon Pumyra, effectively becoming that which Pumyra has hated about him all along. And considering his plan was actually working until Pumyra went batshit insane on him.

Quote:

2. Pumyra's attitude has justification. She was captured, seen the kingdom fall, worked as a slave, and sold to fight in a pit. She's pretty much given up on the King to save her past this point and decided earn her own freedom with no help from anyone. To her, here comes Lion-O out of no where better late than never bringing a Thundertank load of promises and good things. She's already living in hell and he was just pushing her buttons.

Yes, because showing up to say 'hey, I'm here to rescue you' is pushing her buttons. He had just showed up when she started screaming 'YOU!!!' and then started ranting. I'm not saying she hasn't been through a lot, but seriously, lady has issues.

Quote:

3. Well for the three of them, they were in no place to do anything at that point. Their little struggle would have gotten them all captured, lose all chance of having the dogs on their side against Mumm-ra, and Pumyra wouldn't join them. Remember, Lion-O made the decision to do this solo and he deals with the consequences of choosing this action. Plus, Lion-O was choosing not to fight in the first place, if he can't defend himself then he shouldn't be leading the Thundercats.

These are the same people who decided to a)fight off giant lizard army in ep 5 that would have gotten them killed b) decided to fight mumm-ra head on in his pyramid of power. Yes, now they conveniently show a sense of 'caution'

And seems like someone didn't get the whole gist of the episode.

[Sining]

Also, I'm wondering if the fact Lion-O seems so opposed to slavery is because he's the only one who actually went back to the past and saw the cats and dogs as slaves.

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

So your answer is for Lion-O to abandon Pumyra, effectively becoming that which Pumyra has hated about him all along. And considering his plan was actually working until Pumyra went batshit insane on him.

The only thing Lion-O did was try to buy her freedom and stopped there. He didn't even tried to ask Panthro to help out in the negotiation or try to ask Dobo for any other way to free her. Lion-O didn't even bother to work up permission to see Pumyra. He decided to spit on the authority of the Pit and break the rules.

Also Lion-O would have been caught anyway, Dobo trailed him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Yes, because showing up to say 'hey, I'm here to rescue you' is pushing her buttons. He had just showed up when she started screaming 'YOU!!!' and then started ranting. I'm not saying she hasn't been through a lot, but seriously, lady has issues.

You said Lion-O had a plan, we'll Pumyra also had a plan. She was planning to do her 100 fights for her freedom. The only thing she had trust in was Dobo's word and her own skills. She's not going to accept some help from a failed King. She's on her own. The last thing she needs is someone coming in with some crazy scheme that on failure would have cost her everything and worst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

These are the same people who decided to a)fight off giant lizard army in ep 5 that would have gotten them killed b) decided to fight mumm-ra head on in his pyramid of power. Yes, now they conveniently show a sense of 'caution'

And seems like someone didn't get the whole gist of the episode.

If they want to ally with the Dogs to help them fight Mumm-ra, then the Thundercats need to follow their laws. The Thundercats don't have Diplomatic Immunity to do what ever they like.

[Sining]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

The only thing Lion-O did was try to buy her freedom and stopped there. He didn't even tried to ask Panthro to help out in the negotiation or try to ask Dobo for any other way to free her. Lion-O didn't even bother to work up permission to see Pumyra. He decided to spit on the authority of the Pit and break the rules.

Also Lion-O would have been caught anyway, Dobo trailed him.

Yes, he didn't. But I'll just make it clear. He's the ONLY one who said 'she needs to be free'. The rest of the cats DIDN'T say anything. Whether they were interested in saving her or not is unclear but the feeling is that they were willing to leave her where she was. But Lion-O is the only who stepped up and said 'we need to do something about this'. Maybe he could have gone about it a better way but considering his usual crew who don't hesitate in telling him where he went wrong made no suggestions, it means they didn't have better ones or they just didn't care.

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You said Lion-O had a plan, we'll Pumyra also had a plan. She was planning to do her 100 fights for her freedom. The only thing she had trust in was Dobo's word and her own skills. She's not going to accept some help from a failed King. She's on her own. The last thing she needs is someone coming in with some crazy scheme that on failure would have cost her everything and worst.

Does her plan involve a lot of shouting and ranting? Because there's a difference between saying 'i have my own way to get out of here' calmly and then going back to sleep and ignoring Lion-O and shouting "YOU! YOU!!!!!!" and then ranting loudly.

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If they want to ally with the Dogs to help them fight Mumm-ra, then the Thundercats need to follow their laws. The Thundercats don't have Diplomatic Immunity to do what ever they like.

This is actually an interesting question. SHOULD the tcats align themselves with slavers/etc to help them fight against muum-ra? Just what level should they sink themselves to in order to have a chance against mummra?

[Balgus82]

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Originally Posted by Sining

So your answer is for Lion-O to abandon Pumyra, effectively becoming that which Pumyra has hated about him all along. And considering his plan was actually working until Pumyra went batshit insane on him.

Lion-O would've never gotten away with her even if she hadn't started screaming. Dobo was waiting for him. Lion-O practically told Dobo that he was going to try to free her when they were all watching her fight the wrecking ball guy.

[Singe]

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Originally Posted by Sining

Yes, he didn't. But I'll just make it clear. He's the ONLY one who said 'she needs to be free'. The rest of the cats DIDN'T say anything. Whether they were interested in saving her or not is unclear but the feeling is that they were willing to leave her where she was. But Lion-O is the only who stepped up and said 'we need to do something about this'. Maybe he could have gone about it a better way but considering his usual crew who don't hesitate in telling him where he went wrong made no suggestions, it means they didn't have better ones or they just didn't care.

The Cats weren't in any position to do much of anything, because Lion-O wants his army. It was the Dogs town and their rules. This does show the group does lack someone with Diplomacy.

Lion-o could have offered himself and the group to fight in The Pit to get the rest of the wins needed to free her. Lion-O could have challenged Dobo for Pumyra's freedom.

Lion-O has a habit of not listening to the advice of the others in his group. Panthro warned him and he didn't listen. So why bother.

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Originally Posted by Sining

Does her plan involve a lot of shouting and ranting? Because there's a difference between saying 'i have my own way to get out of here' calmly and then going back to sleep and ignoring Lion-O and shouting "YOU! YOU!!!!!!" and then ranting loudly.

Lots of pent up anger for all the bad stuff that happen to her. She was a bottle about to pop. Lion-O happened to be the one to pop it. Also as The King he is in the only legal authority figure of their Government to receive the scorn for the fall of the kingdom.

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Originally Posted by Sining

This is actually an interesting question. SHOULD the tcats align themselves with slavers/etc to help them fight against muum-ra? Just what level should they sink themselves to in order to have a chance against mummra?

The whole army was Lion-O's decision. Given time, he could help influence the dogs to turn away from slavery. As of right now, Lord of the Thundercats has no authority on anything outside his people.

The TC kingdom might have had some form of slavery of their own.

[Sining]

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Originally Posted by Singe

The Cats weren't in any position to do much of anything, because Lion-O wants his army. It was the Dogs town and their rules. This does show the group does lack someone with Diplomacy.

Okay, where IS this talk about Lion-O wanting an army of dogs coming from? They're in town to get SUPPLIES, not recruit the dogs to their cause.

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Lion-o could have offered himself and the group to fight in The Pit to get the rest of the wins needed to free her. Lion-O could have challenged Dobo for Pumyra's freedom.

Lion-O has a habit of not listening to the advice of the others in his group. Panthro warned him and he didn't listen. So why bother.

Panthro's advice was 'Leave her there'. Seriously, if that's your stance, that Lion-O should accept Panthro's advice to leave her there as a slave and pit fighter, then sure. He could have listened to Panthro's advice.

Lion-O could have this, Lion-O could have that. Too bad NO ONE other than Panthro gave any opinion so the choices were 'lets save her' or 'leave her'

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Lots of pent up anger for all the bad stuff that happen to her. She was a bottle about to pop. Lion-O happened to be the one to pop it. Also as The King he is in the only legal authority figure of their Government to receive the scorn for the fall of the kingdom.

Shrugs. I'm not saying whether this is right or correct but basically, people need to learn to stick up for themselves instead of blaming others. Not to mention Lion-O wasn't even the king during the fall of the kingdom. That was Claudus. But to put everything on one guy is ridiculous. But I suppose that's indicative of the cats mentality, where strong = good = king.

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The whole army was Lion-O's decision. Given time, he could help influence the dogs to turn away from slavery. As of right now, Lord of the Thundercats has no authority on anything outside his people.

The TC kingdom might have had some form of slavery of their own.

The TC kingdom also showed no signs of slavery. Of racism and prejudice yes, but not slavery. Are you going to say 'but maybe there was slavery in Thundera?' Maybe there wasn't also. Stop using hypothetical scenarios.

Btw, so from your answer I'm assuming you're saying yes, Lion-O should align himself with slavers to fight mumm-ra?