Rant- Should Thundercats Be Saved?

[AlexofThundera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

you know, it's kind of a good sign if they haven't told them that they need to be looking for other work...

Yes, it is. I am starting to wonder if WB plans to wait and see how well the second season of the show does internationally as well as the 2nd wave of toys before making a decision?

[nickanu]

I was blown away after I watched the first two episodes of the new series.
My inner nerd was jumping up and down. I love the world, the artwork, especially the dialogue between the characters and all the different species.
But by the the second season it seemed to be falling apart.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the writers I think it has to do with the higher ups.
I believe the bigwigs gave up on the series along time ago, it has suffered because of it. If I had to guess I’d say they probably limited the budget and just didn’t want much time in money spent on.
WB purposely kill the new thunder cats and it really pisses me off…. I’ve been waiting for something like this for a while.
I am a fantasy lover, I am the kind of person who waited in line to see all the Lord of the rings and is impatiently waiting for the hobbit. The kind of person who played final fantasy 7 over and over again….
So there’s not a lot of cartoons on right now that feeds my hunger for fantasy. This was like the only one…
I am just greatly displeased with the treatment it’s been getting. I hate to see a show with such potential killed off....

If you look at the fillers from the beginning of the series and the fillers now the writing is completely different. For instance one of my favorite episodes was the drifter and the dualist. I love that episode and it was a filler, it had nothing to do with the overall plot.
But then you look at the fillers of the second season and let’s face it there mind numbing. I personally think they’re just limiting what the writers and animators can do to save money….
It just irks me because we have this huge world that we have yet to explore and we probably never will get that chance.
I want to be a writer and animator one day but when I see good series like this thrown away because of money. I become greatly discouraged because this is the kind of series I would love to write or animate for.

I can’t help but say I feel let down by it all, to the point where I want to say screw cartoon network and screw WB…..

[Cat's Pajamas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

No, it is not. The god awful comics are 93%. The NS is 40-50%. I have all of the OS boxset, and they aren't even close. I don't want a repeat, i want a reboot that treats the characters with respect -- something hardly any of them are getting. Cheetara sure isn't getting any respect. All she's been is a trophy for the boys to whine over and a personal cheerleader for her boyfriend -- a man she won't even challenge to think differently now that they're together.

Here's the 40-50% version; Panthro is a lone samurai panther man who finds a baby lion cub, and names him Lion-o. He trains him in the art of nunchucking, and eventually they build an electro-magical sword to take out the forces of Mumm-ra, Panthro's childhood friend who was horribly disfigured in a cooking accident. Along the way Lion-o learns that his parents, Tygra and Cheetara, were killed by Mumm-ra, and his brother and sister Kit and Kat are being held captive by the crazy old mummy. The evil mutants hang out on Third-Earth waiting to do something evil.

Heroes all accounted for, villain in place, same location, similar plot.

Some of us are mad about tweaks made on characters to flesh them out a bit. In the OS, Tygra's character was basically: A Nice Guy Who Builds Some Things, Though Not As Well As Panthro. There isn't much to work with there, any update would have to add some depth to all of these characters. Although many seem satisfied with a character who: Is Smart, Motherly, And Runs Really Fast; characters like this need external forces to move them through the plot, and ultimately, they stay pretty flat throughout the story. See OS.

I don't know why I keep discussing the minutia of this show with people who get all biblical about the OS, but here's my last thought for those of us who hate the flaws they've built into the new characters;

If you're planning a 3-4 season story arc, do you really want all of your characters to be perfect 1/2 way through the first season? Or do you want to give them room to grow over the course of the series...? Maybe some of the characterization could have been handled better or more consistently, but where do you go with a good story if your characters are awesome from the beginning? After all, it took Luke Skywalker 3 movies to go from whiny farm-boy to badass Jedi.

Maybe if you relax, take a moment to realize it's a children's show, and hold off on judging every minor tweak, you might enjoy the ride.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas

Here's the 40-50% version; Panthro is a lone samurai panther man who finds a baby lion cub, and names him Lion-o. He trains him in the art of nunchucking, and eventually they build an electro-magical sword to take out the forces of Mumm-ra, Panthro's childhood friend who was horribly disfigured in a cooking accident. Along the way Lion-o learns that his parents, Tygra and Cheetara, were killed by Mumm-ra, and his brother and sister Kit and Kat are being held captive by the crazy old mummy. The evil mutants hang out on Third-Earth waiting to do something evil.

Heroes all accounted for, villain in place, same location, similar plot.

Some of us are mad about tweaks made on characters to flesh them out a bit. In the OS, Tygra's character was basically: A Nice Guy Who Builds Some Things, Though Not As Well As Panthro. There isn't much to work with there, any update would have to add some depth to all of these characters. Although many seem satisfied with a character who: Is Smart, Motherly, And Runs Really Fast; characters like this need external forces to move them through the plot, and ultimately, they stay pretty flat throughout the story. See OS.

I don't know why I keep discussing the minutia of this show with people who get all biblical about the OS, but here's my last thought for those of us who hate the flaws they've built into the new characters;

If you're planning a 3-4 season story arc, do you really want all of your characters to be perfect 1/2 way through the first season? Or do you want to give them room to grow over the course of the series...? Maybe some of the characterization could have been handled better or more consistently, but where do you go with a good story if your characters are awesome from the beginning? After all, it took Luke Skywalker 3 movies to go from whiny farm-boy to badass Jedi.

Maybe if you relax, take a moment to realize it's a children's show, and hold off on judging every minor tweak, you might enjoy the ride.

What they did to cheetara (I am not talking about the romance) is not a minor tweak.

Lion-o and the SoO are not a minor weak.

If I remember, it was Luke that destroyed the death star in episode 4. I think that is really awesome. What has lion-o done?

[Cat's Pajamas]

Um....beat the Duelist, the Magi-Oar, freed lizards, passed the trials, helped the Petlars find the way home, rescued some Berbils, survived the Pit, found the ToO, fought his way through the Astral Plane. Yup, you're right, he's a useless wuss.

[Balgus82]

The sword doesn't make the man. Lion-O isn't weaker just because the sword doesn't have powers coming out of nowhere just to give a convenient excuse to have him win. And he certainly wasn't perfect in the OS. Especially at the beginning of the series. He was a kid inside and he made childish mistakes. And do you think for a second the other TCats weren't better than Lion-O at certain things? Or that, without the sword, any one of them couldn't have given him a run for his money during a fight?

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas

Um....beat the Duelist, the Magi-Oar, freed lizards, passed the trials, helped the Petlars find the way home, rescued some Berbils, survived the Pit, found the ToO, fought his way through the Astral Plane. Yup, you're right, he's a useless wuss.

Beat Duelist, lost to tygra.

Team effort with Magi.

Petlars, that was a team effort again. Don't bring up the Tcats don't surrender.

Team effort again with Berbils.

Survived the pit, how was that great? He used his Naruto jutsu to convert pumyra. At least Naruto gets stronger over the series.

He lost in the AP and lost in the trials to tygra. Look like a wuss to me. Wait, he hit mummra with one shot like he does with all the villians.

Yup, he is a wuss compared to the OS lion-o.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

The sword doesn't make the man. Lion-O isn't weaker just because the sword doesn't have powers coming out of nowhere just to give a convenient excuse to have him win. And he certainly wasn't perfect in the OS. Especially at the beginning of the series. He was a kid inside and he made childish mistakes. And do you think for a second the other TCats weren't better than Lion-O at certain things? Or that, without the sword, any one of them couldn't have given him a run for his money during a fight?

Lion-o and the SoO are what made the TCats popular.

He learned over the series his faults and grew stronger, unlike the NS.

The TCats in the OS could not beat him. Maybe in the begining, but not after the trials. Unlike this series, tygra can still beat him.

[Cat's Pajamas]

Luke, blew up a Death Star with one shot, swung over a pit, survived a trash compactor... Got roughed up in a bar. I'm still pretty sure he's considered a hero in that movie.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas

Luke, blew up a Death Star with one shot, swung over a pit, survived a trash compactor... Got roughed up in a bar. I'm still pretty sure he's considered a hero in that movie.

And as I said, lion-o doesn't even come close to that. I am saying Luke did great things from the begining, lion-o hasn't even come close.

Luke's first light saber battle with Darth Vader was longer than any of Lion-o fights.

Let me state this again. Lion-o is the hero, he should be a lot stronger than he is. The SoO should be stronger. Tygra should not be better than lion-o this late in the game.

[MegaGearX]

I usually disagree with L08e16o, but I agree with him here: The Original Lion-O had a bunch of early episodes to establish himself as a solo hero before he called in the other ThunderCats in the last 5 minutes. I'm not bashing ANY series. I like them both. The relationship is also completely different between the series; Original series Lion-O was being mentored to become their ruler by older people. In the New series, he's on a quest to defeat Mumm-Ra, surrounded by other teens around his age or younger and the only adult follows his orders.

Two different Lion-O's.

Unfortunately, Modern Lion-O doesn't have the episodes to establish himself like the Original Lion-O did. I think this is because of modern animation not having 65 episode seasons like they had in the 80's. Every 80's character or group used to have new episodes 5 days a week, plenty of time to establish characters. The modern versions only get shown on the weekend.

So many filler episodes wasted their episode count also did not help, if they had less time to establish things.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaGearX

I usually disagree with L08e16o, but I agree with him here: The Original Lion-O had a bunch of early episodes to establish himself as a solo hero before he called in the other ThunderCats in the last 5 minutes. I'm not bashing ANY series. I like them both. The relationship is also completely different between the series; Original series Lion-O was being mentored to become their ruler by older people. In the New series, he's on a quest to defeat Mumm-Ra, surrounded by other teens around his age or younger and the only adult follows his orders.

Two different Lion-O's.

Unfortunately, Modern Lion-O doesn't have the episodes to establish himself like the Original Lion-O did. I think this is because of modern animation not having 65 episode seasons like they had in the 80's. Every 80's character or group used to have new episodes 5 days a week, plenty of time to establish characters. The modern versions only get shown on the weekend.

So many filler episodes wasted their episode count also did not help, if they had less time to establish things.

Thank you, this is one of my biggest problems with the show.

[MegaGearX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Thank you, this is one of my biggest problems with the show.

I'll go further...

When Tygra and Pumyra both disobeyed and undermined Lion-O 's authority in front of potential hostiles in that last episiode--those events would have NEVER happened in the original series. The older and mature Cats in that series respected Lion-O's position as their king, even before the Trials. If Lion-O made a rash decision, they would respectfully consul him into making the right judgement.

With this new ThunderCats, they all are aware that he's in charge, but they don't respect him. I think it's because they are fellow kids. The only mature one is Panthro and he's played for laughs and the occasional bad-ass moment.

One guy is raised by his elders into a mature adult, leader and king. The other guy is a boy on a road trip with other kids.

I don't hate the new series at all, but it is definitely not the old series. Both series have their weaknesses and strengths. I still think the new series can turn some of these criticisms around, if it can be saved. Hopefully it's not too late.

[AlexofThundera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

The sword doesn't make the man. Lion-O isn't weaker just because the sword doesn't have powers coming out of nowhere just to give a convenient excuse to have him win. And he certainly wasn't perfect in the OS. Especially at the beginning of the series. He was a kid inside and he made childish mistakes. And do you think for a second the other TCats weren't better than Lion-O at certain things? Or that, without the sword, any one of them couldn't have given him a run for his money during a fight?

I agree with you that the sword shouldn't make the man however there are many characters in fiction which are defined by their weapon. If I put 10 people in a room and said "Luke Skywalker" 9 of them would picture Luke with a blazing green light saber in hand. If I said "Cloud" 9 of them would picture Cloud with his buster sword. Most importantly is King Arthur. Immiedietaly people would think of Excalibur. Lion-O and the SoO go hand in hand which is why I am bummed that in the NS he doesn't seem to have that special connection with the sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaGearX

So many filler episodes wasted their episode count also did not help, if they had less time to establish things.

Yeah this is definitely a problem. Mind you I enjoyed many of those filler episodes, but they were badly placed into the series. Place one here and one there, but not two or three in a row killing all momentum that the two previous episodes had built up. That's the issue with making a series that has an over all objective as opposed to a series where 95% of the episodes are stand alones. When you have an over all objective that will span a whole season, you have to be smart about how you do it. Just who made the call to place these filler episodes in such bad spots during the season is anyone's guess so I am not going to blame anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaGearX

With this new ThunderCats, they all are aware that he's in charge, but they don't respect him. I think it's because they are fellow kids. The only mature one is Panthro and he's played for laughs and the occasional bad-ass moment.

One guy is raised by his elders into a mature adult, leader and king. The other guy is a boy on a road trip with other kids.

Very good points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaGearX

I don't hate the new series at all, but it is definitely not the old series. Both series have their weaknesses and strengths. I still think the new series can turn some of these criticisms around, if it can be saved. Hopefully it's not too late.

Ditto

[Cat's Pajamas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexofThundera

If I put 10 people in a room and said "Luke Skywalker" 9 of them would picture Luke with a blazing green light saber in hand.

Yes, that might be how they picture him, but it took 2 movies and losing his hand to get there... my point is that if you're planning a three season arc (essentially 3 movies) you don't want your character to go from farm-boy to unstoppable Jedi halfway through the first movie (or even by the end of the first movie,) you want to give some room to grow. None of us have any idea what they're planning for subsequent seasons, but there's a very good chance they intend to make Lion-o into a Jedi by the end (if they get that far...)

If you look at a property like Avengers, they eventually run out of plausible situations to stick the characters in because they're soooo damn powerful. So every new story involves a crazier reason someone or something is going to destroy the world, universe, time, whatever, and the stories start to feel formulaic and forced.

I don't think the new series is perfect, but giving Lion-o room to grow isn't necessarily a sign that they hate the character or the fans.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas

Yes, that might be how they picture him, but it took 2 movies and losing his hand to get there... my point is that if you're planning a three season arc (essentially 3 movies) you don't want your character to go from farm-boy to unstoppable Jedi halfway through the first movie (or even by the end of the first movie,) you want to give some room to grow. None of us have any idea what they're planning for subsequent seasons, but there's a very good chance they intend to make Lion-o into a Jedi by the end (if they get that far...)

If you look at a property like Avengers, they eventually run out of plausible situations to stick the characters in because they're soooo damn powerful. So every new story involves a crazier reason someone or something is going to destroy the world, universe, time, whatever, and the stories start to feel formulaic and forced.

I don't think the new series is perfect, but giving Lion-o room to grow isn't necessarily a sign that they hate the character or the fans.

Dragon Ball, Bleach, and Naruto. These main characters kept powering up. TCats will never even come close to these series.

Room to grow, where did he grow?

Luke was still great in episode 4. He was a great pilot, unlike tygra just getting into an A/C and can fly it.

I think MJ has made tygra better than lion-o. If lion-o would've grown, he would be better than tygra by now.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

And as I said, lion-o doesn't even come close to that. I am saying Luke did great things from the begining, lion-o hasn't even come close.

Luke's first light saber battle with Darth Vader was longer than any of Lion-o fights.

Let me state this again. Lion-o is the hero, he should be a lot stronger than he is. The SoO should be stronger. Tygra should not be better than lion-o this late in the game.

Dude. Of course a fight in a 122 minute movie is longer than a fight in a 22 minute tv show. They had over 5 times as much time to tell the story.

And this isn't late in the game. It's the first season.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaGearX

I'll go further...

When Tygra and Pumyra both disobeyed and undermined Lion-O 's authority in front of potential hostiles in that last episiode--those events would have NEVER happened in the original series. The older and mature Cats in that series respected Lion-O's position as their king, even before the Trials. If Lion-O made a rash decision, they would respectfully consul him into making the right judgement.

With this new ThunderCats, they all are aware that he's in charge, but they don't respect him. I think it's because they are fellow kids. The only mature one is Panthro and he's played for laughs and the occasional bad-ass moment.

One guy is raised by his elders into a mature adult, leader and king. The other guy is a boy on a road trip with other kids.

I don't hate the new series at all, but it is definitely not the old series. Both series have their weaknesses and strengths. I still think the new series can turn some of these criticisms around, if it can be saved. Hopefully it's not too late.

But at the same time in the OS when the other TCats gave him advise and tried to steer him in the right direction he actually listened to them. In the NS he pretty much ignores any advice they give.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexofThundera

Yeah this is definitely a problem. Mind you I enjoyed many of those filler episodes, but they were badly placed into the series. Place one here and one there, but not two or three in a row killing all momentum that the two previous episodes had built up. That's the issue with making a series that has an over all objective as opposed to a series where 95% of the episodes are stand alones. When you have an over all objective that will span a whole season, you have to be smart about how you do it. Just who made the call to place these filler episodes in such bad spots during the season is anyone's guess so I am not going to blame anyone.

Now this I agree with. I don't mind occasional filler. But there's a point when there are too many in a row and they completely break the momentum that the other episodes were building. That's an issue that would definitely need to be addressed in the next season.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Dude. Of course a fight in a movie is longer than a fight in a 22 minute tv show. They had over 5 times as much time to tell the story.

And this isn't late in the game. It's the first season.

I don't see a second season do I.

The point is, the battles for lion-o do not take that long. One hit shots. They can make the mummra fights better.

If WB allows MJ to do the other season, I expect the same old same with him.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

But at the same time in the OS when the other TCats gave him advise and tried to steer him in the right direction he actually listened to them. In the NS he pretty much ignores any advice they give.

After the trials, when does he ignore them? You mean where they wanted to leave pumyra or when they didn't want to help the lizards in 14?

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Dude. Of course a fight in a 122 minute movie is longer than a fight in a 22 minute tv show. They had over 5 times as much time to tell the story.

And this isn't late in the game. It's the first season.

They have a cliff hanger for 26.

Who do you think will betray lion-o?

[MegaGearX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

But at the same time in the OS when the other TCats gave him advise and tried to steer him in the right direction he actually listened to them. In the NS he pretty much ignores any advice they give.

Yes, the respect was there in the OS. I believe the respect isn't there in the NS because most of the characters are peers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Dragon Ball, Bleach, and Naruto. These main characters kept powering up. TCats will never even come close to these series.

Room to grow, where did he grow?

Luke was still great in episode 4. He was a great pilot, unlike tygra just getting into an A/C and can fly it.

I think MJ has made tygra better than lion-o. If lion-o would've grown, he would be better than tygra by now.

Lion-O is growing as a king, but it's a slow process and he still has a long way to go. He has to get to that point with less episodes. I think a problem with his growth was that the new Trials failed to establish him as the Lord of the ThunderCats the way the Old Trials did. In the OS, the Trials were a MAJOR event in Lion-O's evolution; a ThunderCat tradition that established the true King at the end, should the candidate pass. In the NS, the Trials were completely different and meant nothing to the other ThunderCats, as they weren't the actual ThunderCats testing Lion-O. It was a chance for Lion-O to earn the right to be alive once more. While Lion-O did rescue the other ThunderCats, he still lacks their respect as King.

We probably would have seen Lion-O develop more if they hadn't wasted a few episodes.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

They have a cliff hanger for 26.

Who do you think will betray lion-o?

It won't be just lion-o who gets betrayed but the whole team so it'll have to be someone whose betrayal will hurt the team and shock the viewers.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaGearX

Yes, the respect was there in the OS. I believe the respect isn't there in the NS because most of the characters are peers.



Lion-O is growing as a king, but it's a slow process and he still has a long way to go. He has to get to that point with less episodes. I think a problem with his growth was that the new Trials failed to establish him as the Lord of the ThunderCats the way the Old Trials did. In the OS, the Trials were a MAJOR event in Lion-O's evolution; a ThunderCat tradition that established the true King at the end, should the candidate pass. In the NS, the Trials were completely different and meant nothing to the other ThunderCats, as they weren't the actual ThunderCats testing Lion-O. It was a chance for Lion-O to earn the right to be alive once more. While Lion-O did rescue the other ThunderCats, he still lacks their respect as King.

We probably would have seen Lion-O develop more if they hadn't wasted a few episodes.

Agreed.

I am fine with fillers, if they flesh out the characters. I just wish lion-o was stronger.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

It won't be just lion-o who gets betrayed but the whole team so it'll have to be someone whose betrayal will hurt the team and shock the viewers.

If it is tygra, they can do a lot with that.

If it is pumyra, that is nothing big to me. They said she would be with them for a bit after forever bag. After we say the ending of last episode, you could see her doing that.

If it is cheetara, that would be a big surprise. I would never guess it would be her.

I don't see panthro or the kittens doing it unless it is Snarf.

[nightcrawler]

The Only thing the New Thundercats had going for them is the art work and the character design. However, The show is barely watchable. I like to watch animations and I can barely make though the entire episode. The problem with the writers and the animators. I can see the story going from point A to point B but there is really no substance. and animation also does not flow either, jumping all over the place. it would seem like the entire episode written in a short paragraph without any descriptive words and the whole story can be told in 5 minute slide show. They need to learn to write the complete story before hand and they need continue to feed new information to keep audience interested.

The best show in CN now is Young Justice, and that one you would be hooked just after watching one episode. As for Thundercats, even thought the art works is one of the better ones, I would watch some many other ones before I want to see Thundercats.

Consider even the Toys the the Young Justice failed at retail, I don't have too much hope for show like this one.

[Silverback]

Vantheman77, it looks like you're complaining there is too much filler but at the same time suggesting there should be more filler with each season focusing on a tower or stone. There would be waaay more filler if the writers went that route.

I don't get why people don't like Lion-O growing into his role. Luke was a whiny b*#%h in ANH. Then he failed his test in the cave on Dagobah and lost his hand to Darth Vader while trying and failing to save his friends before making an epic comeback as a badass in ROTJ. Even G1 Optimus Prime was a bit niave when he fought Megatron in a duel over who had to leave Earth and expected Megatron to fight fair. Maybe kids want a completely invincible hero but I really like character flaws because then I can relate easier to the characters. And who says Lion-O is second fiddle to Tygra? Tygra does come off as a jerk but I don't see hime beating Mumm-Ra. Also as I recall when Lion-O "died" he failed the test (cave on dagobah) but actually passed because he was willing to die for his people and Tygra admitted he kept criticising Lion-O and was wrong to do so because he believed he could do better but only got everyone captured. Talk about people seeing only what they want to see. Is your view on the rest of your life the glass half full or half empty?

The original series died for a reason. It got old. This reboot took decades to come about and even if it isn't perfect it's better to have something to get folks to remember than just comic books. I agree with another poster who said this show complimented Clone Wars well. For primetime and a more mature audience it was awesome. But after the move to Saturday mornings the writing did seem to get goofy with Panthro being comedic relief. They probably did the move and dumbed down the show just to drive sales for the toys and it didn't work largely because there were no toys to buy or retailers weren't carrying the product. The show and toys probably should be geared towards adults and collectors. The companies like to say that the kids are the majority but I will argue there are specific late night blocks with purely adults in mind on CN and how did Star Wars survive a 20 year hiatus without collectors and fans? Same with Thundercats and MOTU.

And for the new series haters, Transformers is around and kicking today in many markets thanks in large part to Beast Wars regenerating interest. I see Geewunners complain about the series, toys and movies not being the same as the 80's but if it was it probably would get old fast because we have been there, done that. It has needed revamps to keep things interesting and to remind people it is even there to begin with. I don't like everything about every new relaunch but I'm glad to have my toys and see the franchise is around at all. If you really wanna complain about something become a Star Wars fan. It's supposed to be one huge super continuity that encompasses the movies, books, comics and toons but a lot of the creators step on each others toes, change the timeline (Luke will be 8 years old in ANH with the way they are drawing the Clone Wars cartoon out) and retcons are everywhere. Did you know Darth Maul didn't die at the end of TPM?

Let's be thankful for having anything it all. Beggers can't be choosers. "I want Thundercats, just not this Thundercats… or that one… or the one after that." That's like crying wolf. Eventually WB and affiliates will just give up on the franchise when they realize nothing they do will make anyone happy.

[kevster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverback

Vantheman77, it looks like you're complaining there is too much filler but at the same time suggesting there should be more filler with each season focusing on a tower or stone. There would be waaay more filler if the writers went that route.


The original series died for a reason. It got old.



Let's be thankful for having anything it all. Beggers can't be choosers. "I want Thundercats, just not this Thundercats… or that one… or the one after that." That's like crying wolf. Eventually WB and affiliates will just give up on the franchise when they realize nothing they do will make anyone happy.

Crap and stupid excuse.

the original died because it got old? .....so what does it make this hunk of garbage thats dying much faster?


This show has gotten it wrong so manys way I don't have time to list them all.

Beggars can't be choosers?

Oh yeah , they can . You can accept this terrible reboot that bears little resemblence to the Original , or you ask for better.

Jelenic and crew got it wrong. ( that includes Dan Norton).

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevster

Crap and stupid excuse.

the original dies because it got old? .....so what does it make this hunk of garbage thats dying much faster?


This show has gotten it wrong so manys way I don't have time to list them all.

Beggars can't be choosers?

Oh yeah , they can . You can accept this terrible reboot that bears little resemblence to the Original , or you ask for better.

Jelenic and crew got it wrong. ( that includes Dan Norton).

The original did so well, hence the amount of Eps it had. A living proof.

And MJ looks like will not be involved with TCATS anymore. With WB's Press Release of him doing Teen Titans Go.

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

[kevster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

The original did so well, hence the amount of Eps it has. A living proof.

And MJ looks like will not be involved with TCATS anymore. With WB's Press Release of him doing Teen Titans Go.

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

Great post.


That would be great to hear....

But again I have to ask , if these were SUCH big fans of the Original, why tear down and change so much that simply DID NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED.

IMO, i wouldn't let these former Wildstorm guys go NEAR this property again.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevster

Great post.


That would be great to hear....

But again I have to ask , if these were SUCH big fans of the Original, why tear down and change so much that simply DID NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED.

IMO, i wouldn't let these former Wildstorm guys go NEAR this property again.

MJ and crew lied so much. I saw countless of interviews and comments from them and most were ended up just to keep people watching the show. He just wanted to do stuff his own way practically, from all that's happened we can see. Thus Peter Lawrence, one of the OS writers himself "not happy" with MJ.

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

[MegatronWolf]

pretty much every thing thats been stated here ive been saying for months now. Great show that lost its way, great toys but horrid distribution, WB doesnt give a damn & CN didnt help. Because of all that the franchise is probably going to go back into limbo for another 20 years. I hope not but im sure thats whats going to happen. Only problem i have with this posting is that the section of should not & can not be saved should be separated into their own sections, not only are they 2 different things but with them separated you can state more for each and bring up more issues that you might have lesft out to save space and keep things even. But other than that it was a good read and i hope that some of the big shots working on the franchise see it and our responses and try and take notes. Should the series be saved yes, can it be saved yes, will it be saved probably not. But if it is to be save for the love of god dont let hasbro get a hold of it. They have to much as it is and they'll find some way to screw it up down the road.

[Thunderian scholar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverback

Maybe kids want a completely invincible hero but I really like character flaws because then I can relate easier to the characters. And who says Lion-O is second fiddle to Tygra? Tygra does come off as a jerk but I don't see hime beating Mumm-Ra. Also as I recall when Lion-O "died" he failed the test (cave on dagobah) but actually passed because he was willing to die for his people and Tygra admitted he kept criticising Lion-O and was wrong to do so because he believed he could do better but only got everyone captured. Talk about people seeing only what they want to see. Is your view on the rest of your life the glass half full or half empty?

The original series died for a reason. It got old. This reboot took decades to come about and even if it isn't perfect it's better to have something to get folks to remember than just comic books. I agree with another poster who said this show complimented Clone Wars well. For primetime and a more mature audience it was awesome. But after the move to Saturday mornings the writing did seem to get goofy with Panthro being comedic relief. They probably did the move and dumbed down the show just to drive sales for the toys and it didn't work largely because there were no toys to buy or retailers weren't carrying the product. The show and toys probably should be geared towards adults and collectors. The companies like to say that the kids are the majority but I will argue there are specific late night blocks with purely adults in mind on CN and how did Star Wars survive a 20 year hiatus without collectors and fans? Same with Thundercats and MOTU.

And for the new series haters, Transformers is around and kicking today in many markets thanks in large part to Beast Wars regenerating interest. I see Geewunners complain about the series, toys and movies not being the same as the 80's but if it was it probably would get old fast because we have been there, done that. It has needed revamps to keep things interesting and to remind people it is even there to begin with. I don't like everything about every new relaunch but I'm glad to have my toys and see the franchise is around at all. If you really wanna complain about something become a Star Wars fan. It's supposed to be one huge super continuity that encompasses the movies, books, comics and toons but a lot of the creators step on each others toes, change the timeline (Luke will be 8 years old in ANH with the way they are drawing the Clone Wars cartoon out) and retcons are everywhere. Did you know Darth Maul didn't die at the end of TPM?

Let's be thankful for having anything it all. Beggers can't be choosers. "I want Thundercats, just not this Thundercats… or that one… or the one after that." That's like crying wolf. Eventually WB and affiliates will just give up on the franchise when they realize nothing they do will make anyone happy.

The last paragraph was very well said!

[Cat's Pajamas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

The original did so well, hence the amount of Eps it had. A living proof.

And MJ looks like will not be involved with TCATS anymore. With WB's Press Release of him doing Teen Titans Go.

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevster

Great post.


That would be great to hear....

But again I have to ask , if these were SUCH big fans of the Original, why tear down and change so much that simply DID NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED.

IMO, i wouldn't let these former Wildstorm guys go NEAR this property again.

Why are you guys watching this show? I just don't get it, it seems like you've hated it and felt personally betrayed by it since the first episode. Let it go already. Stop being so nasty to everyone who enjoys the show.

BTW you're probably in luck... if MJ is no longer involved with the show, it's most likely because there is no more show. So cheer up, the T-cats universe shall be restored to its former glory. And nobody will force you to watch this vile new series.

[AlexofThundera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverback

For primetime and a more mature audience it was awesome. But after the move to Saturday mornings the writing did seem to get goofy with Panthro being comedic relief. They probably did the move and dumbed down the show just to drive sales for the toys and it didn't work largely because there were no toys to buy or retailers weren't carrying the product. The show and toys probably should be geared towards adults and collectors.

One thing you have to take into consideration though is that some members on here whom seem to have a lot of insider info on the series state that all the episodes were done before the premier of episode 1. If that is the case then that is quite the blunder as I don't see episodes like the Forever Bag holding up to well in that type of situation. Even one of my favorites of the Kit & Kat episodes, Survival of the Fittest wouldn't have held up that well.

I have always called this thing right down the middle. From a purely business perspective it seems that WB / CN, the writers, producers, and Bandai were not all in sync. They put a show which started off geared towards a more mature audience in a time slot where a older demographic is watching, but released toys mostly geared towards children. Then they realized the mistake, switched it to Sat mornings (which was a good idea IMO seeing how they wanted to drive up toy sales and improve ratings) however now some of the episodes and plots were going way over these children's heads. They couldn't just "jump right in" so to say.

So to sum it up: from the beginning they either had to choose to target a more mature audience with collectibles geared towards them, or a show written more for children with a toy line geared towards them. You can't mix and match as the evidence shows.

[vantheman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverback

Vantheman77, it looks like you're complaining there is too much filler but at the same time suggesting there should be more filler with each season focusing on a tower or stone. There would be waaay more filler if the writers went that route.

I don't get why people don't like Lion-O growing into his role. Luke was a whiny b*#%h in ANH. Then he failed his test in the cave on Dagobah and lost his hand to Darth Vader while trying and failing to save his friends before making an epic comeback as a badass in ROTJ. Even G1 Optimus Prime was a bit niave when he fought Megatron in a duel over who had to leave Earth and expected Megatron to fight fair. Maybe kids want a completely invincible hero but I really like character flaws because then I can relate easier to the characters. And who says Lion-O is second fiddle to Tygra? Tygra does come off as a jerk but I don't see hime beating Mumm-Ra. Also as I recall when Lion-O "died" he failed the test (cave on dagobah) but actually passed because he was willing to die for his people and Tygra admitted he kept criticising Lion-O and was wrong to do so because he believed he could do better but only got everyone captured. Talk about people seeing only what they want to see. Is your view on the rest of your life the glass half full or half empty?

The original series died for a reason. It got old. This reboot took decades to come about and even if it isn't perfect it's better to have something to get folks to remember than just comic books. I agree with another poster who said this show complimented Clone Wars well. For primetime and a more mature audience it was awesome. But after the move to Saturday mornings the writing did seem to get goofy with Panthro being comedic relief. They probably did the move and dumbed down the show just to drive sales for the toys and it didn't work largely because there were no toys to buy or retailers weren't carrying the product. The show and toys probably should be geared towards adults and collectors. The companies like to say that the kids are the majority but I will argue there are specific late night blocks with purely adults in mind on CN and how did Star Wars survive a 20 year hiatus without collectors and fans? Same with Thundercats and MOTU.

And for the new series haters, Transformers is around and kicking today in many markets thanks in large part to Beast Wars regenerating interest. I see Geewunners complain about the series, toys and movies not being the same as the 80's but if it was it probably would get old fast because we have been there, done that. It has needed revamps to keep things interesting and to remind people it is even there to begin with. I don't like everything about every new relaunch but I'm glad to have my toys and see the franchise is around at all. If you really wanna complain about something become a Star Wars fan. It's supposed to be one huge super continuity that encompasses the movies, books, comics and toons but a lot of the creators step on each others toes, change the timeline (Luke will be 8 years old in ANH with the way they are drawing the Clone Wars cartoon out) and retcons are everywhere. Did you know Darth Maul didn't die at the end of TPM?

Let's be thankful for having anything it all. Beggers can't be choosers. "I want Thundercats, just not this Thundercats… or that one… or the one after that." That's like crying wolf. Eventually WB and affiliates will just give up on the franchise when they realize nothing they do will make anyone happy.

There are clearly filler episodes that didn't advance the story of searching for the Book of Omens or the stones, which is supposed to be the main storyline of the season.

As for Lion-O this season, they sure had him become king in a negative way. We're left feeling he couldn't beat Tygra on anything.

[MegaGearX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevster

Oh yeah , they can . You can accept this terrible reboot that bears little resemblence to the Original, or you ask for better.

This new series isn't supposed to be the original series or a sequel to it. It's another incarnation of the characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

The original did so well, hence the amount of Eps it had. A living proof.

That was because the OS was in the 80's with daily episodes, not weekly like today's cartoons. The only cartoon based on an old property with more episodes than the original series was the 2003 TMNT cartoon, which was more based on the comic book TMNT.

Quote:

And MJ looks like will not be involved with TCATS anymore. With WB's Press Release of him doing Teen Titans Go.

Anyone can write/produce multiple shows.

[MegaGearX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas

Why are you guys watching this show? I just don't get it, it seems like you've hated it and felt personally betrayed by it since the first episode. Let it go already. Stop being so nasty to everyone who enjoys the show.

BTW you're probably in luck... if MJ is no longer involved with the show, it's most likely because there is no more show. So cheer up, the T-cats universe shall be restored to its former glory. And nobody will force you to watch this vile new series.

It isn't glory if your property is dead. At least the modern ThunderCats, like them or hate them, keeps the whole brand alive at retail.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vantheman77

There are clearly filler episodes that didn't advance the story of searching for the Book of Omens or the stones, which is supposed to be the main storyline of the season.

As for Lion-O this season, they sure had him become king in a negative way. We're left feeling he couldn't beat Tygra on anything.

I still feel the same way with the last sentence.

I have a feeling if someone replaces MJ, Tygra's role will be reduced.

[L08e16o]

Anyone can write/produce multiple shows.[/QUOTE]

Disagree.

I don't believe he will be on this project anymore. They want him to focus on TTG.

I love it too.

If he did both projects, you would have more holes in the story line.

[vantheman77]

Focus on an animated project is very important. I can see MJ putting his energies into Teen Titans Go than Thundercats. If we get a second season, I hope writers from the original series will be onboard.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Disagree.

I don't believe he will be on this project anymore. They want him to focus on TTG.

I love it too.

If he did both projects, you would have more holes in the story line.

Tcats was written and recorded before the premiere aired. Which means before august of Last year. Teen Titans Go doesn't premiere until next year. That's a good year/year and a half where he hasn't had to work on ThunderCats full time.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Tcats was written and recorded before the premiere aired. Which means before august of Last year. Teen Titans Go doesn't premiere until next year. That's a good year/year and a half where he hasn't had to work on ThunderCats full time.

MJ is not coming back to TCats.

He needs to stay on comedy where he belongs.

WB, CN, and Bandai are losing money. They will not wait two years and bring this out again.

The investors in TCats want a return on their investment. If anything, somone else will lead the project.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

MJ is not coming back to TCats.

He needs to stay on comedy where he belongs.

WB, CN, and Bandai are losing money. They will not wait two years and bring this out again.

The investors in TCats want a return on their investment. If anything, somone else will lead the project.

Hopefully that someone else is someone I know rather well. (But we have to keep it hush-hush in public)

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Hopefully that someone else is someone I know rather well. (But we have to keep it hush-hush in public)

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

I hope, we know what pairing that person would do.

[dj7000]

Latest rumor Hasbro might wanna snag it and revamp it on the dieing Hub as a last ditch effort to save the franchise and the network. take that with extreme trepidation as I trust absolutely nothing about hasbro anymore. Even if it does come to light, chances are they'll muff it.

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj7000

Latest rumor Hasbro might wanna snag it and revamp it on the dieing Hub as a last ditch effort to save the franchise and the network. take that with extreme trepidation as I trust absolutely nothing about hasbro anymore. Even if it does come to light, chances are they'll muff it.

How is the Hub dying? They have MLP: FiM. That's got them lots of viewers and sales.

[Silverback]

With Lion-O not measuring up to Tygra, again I say people are only seeing what they want to see. Lion-O has sight beyond sight wich Jaga said they're greatest king was prophecized to have. He beats Mumm-Ra regularly. Tygra's jealousy has made him betray Lion-O when they were cubs and made him jealous of what seemed like a relationship developing between Cheetara and Lion-O. Plus he was blinded to what was really going on when they found the Tiger Clan wich Lion-O figured out and Tygra fully admitted he wasn't the leader Lion-O was. This last episode of the season/series also shows how Lion-O has earned the trust and respect of the other animals by helping out. Neither character is perfect. People griping about Lion-O being second best have no argument. He isn't unbeatable. He wasn't granted all the wisdom and strength that comes with experience like in the 80's version. Whoop-dee-doo. So some other characters get to share some of the spot light. Cry me a river. I'm not saying everyone has to like this new show but I have a feeling a lot of the people complaining about it won't be happy with anything anyone does with the franchise except let it be forgotten.

[Sportsandstuff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas

This is one of those rare reboots that is every bit as good, if not better than the original. I'm going to be deeply disappointed if it fails to continue. They've managed to create a rich and vibrant world, as well as interesting characters. It's clear that a lot of thought and care went into this show, and it doesn't feel like a crass 22 minute advertisement for toys, like so many other cartoons on the air.

I'm not optimistic about the future, but I'll be very disheartened if this is the end.

I completely agree with you this reboot for me is better than the original show.