Thundercats Ep 15 Trials of Lion-O Pt 1 Discussion

[L08e16o]

So which stone is up? I hope it is the green one.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

not saying crawling and begging for forgiveness.

something like:

"Lion O, you are dear to me, I love you but not in the way you wish me to. I never intended to lead you on and should have made my intentions clearer... I'm so sorry that I hurt you and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me."

would that really be too much to ask from the writers?

Would it be too much of them to NOT write Lion-O as the classic Nice Guy (tm)?

Quote:

... I'm so sorry that I hurt you and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me."

yes, that sounds like she's begging him to forgive her for something she has no control over.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

The worst part is I don't hate Cheetarah and don't even hold a grudge against her for her actions, everybody screws up. It's just this constant argument of "She did nothing wrong, Lion-O is just a bitch" that irritates me. Yes I would like to see some acknowledgement that maybe the other Cats weren't as nice to Lion-O as they thought at some point, but even if I don't I'm not going to abandon the show or bash its characters. All I'm looking for among the fandom is the simple acknowledgment that every conflict has two sides, and mistakes are almost always made on both.

As a lion-o fan, I know he has a lot of learn, that is what this show is about.

But so does tygra and cheetara. Cheetara is a total different person now.

[Singe]

Through the entire first season Lion-O could have asked Cheetara about the possible romance.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Through the entire first season Lion-O could have asked Cheetara about the possible romance, but he didn't.

Agreed, maybe that is where he screwed up.

Maybe cheetara didn't read lion-o's singals.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

No it isn't. He PO about the kiss and being lead on. He said watch over him, didn't say get up close and personnel.

We've established that you don't care for the way she went about it, but Lion-O is not mad that she did all of those things. He likes her, he's attracted to her and wants to be with her. He's mad because she's not interested.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

We've established that you don't care for the way she went about it, but Lion-O is not mad that she did all of those things. He likes her, he's attracted to her and wants to be with her. He's mad because she's not interested.

I think he was mad that she was not honest with him. She gives him a kiss before the AP and he thought she choose him, but then he sees them kiss. He was expecting tygra to do something no cheetara.

Let's face it, it is the writers fault.

[CCDustyV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Would it be too much of them to NOT write Lion-O as the classic Nice Guy (tm)?


yes, that sounds like she's begging him to forgive her for something she has no control over.

She DID have control over it though. She could have not kissed him and pressed her boobs to his back as much. He attempted to clear the air and make things right, to at least understand what the crap was going on... and all he got was "Jaga told me to watch over you"

that explained NOTHING. If she just gave advice and mentored like Jaga did, or even like Classic Cheetara did for her Lion O, that would have made sense. But all the smiles, touches, hugs, and kisses, no, that explained none of that.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Through the entire first season Lion-O could have asked Cheetara about the possible romance.

Considering he wanted to start crap with his brother about it, asking Cheetara how she felt she have been one of those main priorities.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Or press against him or touch his hand.

You know its a simple case of what would jaga do unless really a little common sense on her part

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

As a lion-o fan, I know he has a lot of learn, that is what this show is about.

But so does tygra and cheetara. Cheetara is a total different person now.

I think that Cheetara's inability to realize (or acknowledge) her fault in this situation, says something about her character. And its nothing good.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I think that Cheetara's inability to realize (or acknowledge) her fault in this situation, says something about her character. And its nothing good.

Dude, Cheetarah is totally Scott Pilgrim.

DOES ANYONE ELSE GET THAT JOKE?

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

She DID have control over it though. She could have not kissed him and pressed her boobs to his back as much. He attempted to clear the air and make things right, to at least understand what the crap was going on... and all he got was "Jaga told me to watch over you"

that explained NOTHING. If she just gave advice and mentored like Jaga did, or even like Classic Cheetara did for her Lion O, that would have made sense. But all the smiles, touches, hugs, and kisses, no, that explained none of that.

Oh, so she shouldn't have been so emotionally involved with him? She should have kept her distance because lord only know how Lion-O would interpret it.
No, he asked her about her treatment of him, and now he's pissed because he doesn't like the answer he got.
And no, he didn't just get jagga told me to watch over you. He got, even though I love someone else, I still care about you and I still believe you have what it takes to be a great king.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Maybe she isn't sorry for what she did?

Yeah if lion-o had a sister i wonder who she would be beating up right now

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

She DID have control over it though. She could have not kissed him and pressed her boobs to his back as much. He attempted to clear the air and make things right, to at least understand what the crap was going on... and all he got was "Jaga told me to watch over you"

that explained NOTHING. If she just gave advice and mentored like Jaga did, or even like Classic Cheetara did for her Lion O, that would have made sense. But all the smiles, touches, hugs, and kisses, no, that explained none of that.

Lion-O wasn't helping by constantly being irate at her every-time they spoke to each other.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

She DID have control over it though. She could have not kissed him and pressed her boobs to his back as much. He attempted to clear the air and make things right, to at least understand what the crap was going on... and all he got was "Jaga told me to watch over you"

that explained NOTHING. If she just gave advice and mentored like Jaga did, or even like Classic Cheetara did for her Lion O, that would have made sense. But all the smiles, touches, hugs, and kisses, no, that explained none of that.

Don't forget she couldn't look him in the eyes when she said it. That says a lot.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I think he was mad that she was not honest with him. She gives him a kiss before the AP and he thought she choose him, but then he sees them kiss. He was expecting tygra to do something no cheetara.

Let's face it, it is the writers fault.

The posters in here are not calling the writers hos and dick teases so yea...

He never asked her how she felt, and so she was never given the opportunity to be honest with him.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Dude, Cheetarah is totally Scott Pilgrim.

DOES ANYONE ELSE GET THAT JOKE?

Any time that show is on I watch it.

Yes. Two timing.

[CCDustyV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

And no, he didn't just get jagga told me to watch over you. He got, even though I love someone else, I still care about you and I still believe you have what it takes to be a great king.

that was discredited when the time came for her to put her money where her mouth is and she dropped the ball BIG TIME. You can't tell me that statement and her surrendering on him wasn't tied together.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

The posters in here are not calling the writers hos and dick teases so yea...

He never asked her how she felt, and so she was never given the opportunity to be honest with him.

We are going to have to disagree.

I felt she had the chance when she pressed against him. Kat said they were kissing and cheetara sat back and enjoyed it. She could have said something later, but this is what the writers wanted.

I don't think she is a tease.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Don't forget she couldn't look him in the eyes when she said it. That says a lot.

Heres my theory, which I'm admitting is just a theory.

I heard people who've watched the OS talk about how Cheetara was always very self-conscious about her sixth sense. I think it was her sixth sense that promoted her to follow Lion-O, but she was to afraid to admit to it. Though, she could have put her head down out of sadness.

Either way both Jagga asking her to follow him, makes more sense than her having a crush. That would be called stalking.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Agreed, maybe that is where he screwed up.

Maybe cheetara didn't read lion-o's singals.

How old is kit 8 or 9 and she could read them just fine and cheetara can't

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

that was discredited when the time came for her to put her money where her mouth is and she dropped the ball BIG TIME. You can't tell me that statement and her surrendering on him wasn't tied together.

Even before that, she said it doesn't change our relationship. Lion-o thought that their relationship was more. That can be confusing.

I thought that was the worse.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

How old is kit 8 or 9 and she could read them just fine and cheetara can't

She knew, there will be more to this.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCDustyV

that was discredited when the time came for her to put her money where her mouth is and she dropped the ball BIG TIME. You can't tell me that statement and her surrendering on him wasn't tied together.

Disagree or agree with the last part, that doesn't detract from Lion-O's reaction to her saying it.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Any time that show is on I watch it.

Yes. Two timing.

Not quite what I meant.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

We are going to have to disagree.

I felt she had the chance when she pressed against him. Kat said they were kissing and cheetara sat back and enjoyed it. She could have said something later, but this is what the writers wanted.

I don't think she is a tease.

Adults are not that bothered by teasing.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Heres my theory, which I'm admitting is just a theory.

I heard people who've watched the OS talk about how Cheetara was always very self-conscious about her sixth sense. I think it was her sixth sense that promoted her to follow Lion-O, but she was to afraid to admit to it. Though, she could have put her head down out of sadness.

Either way both Jagga asking her to follow him, makes more sense than her having a crush. That would be called stalking.

It could be a mix of both, following and crush.

Lion-o needed her to look him in the eyes. It looked like she just came up with an excuse. That made lion-o even more angry.

Now you got his look on his face in the AP after cheetara kissed him.

Drama must go on.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Adults are not that bothered by teasing.

I will disagree with that. I have been to many clubs and parties where men can take things out of context. A women could just be looking there way and they think that women likes them.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Not quite what I meant.

Sorry. See, I can say it.

What part are you referring too?

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I will disagree with that. I have been to many clubs and parties where men can take things out of context. A women could just be looking there way and they think that women likes them.

As a woman, I do NOT and should not be held accountable for the way men act. If someone followed you all over town because they had a crush, you would find it cute?

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Sorry. See, I can say it.

What part are you referring too?

Moreso the tendency to ignore their own faults and whitewash past actions. Scott is by far worse about it than Cheetarah, but it was a funny reference so I ran with it.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I will disagree with that. I have been to many clubs and parties where men can take things out of context. A women could just be looking there way and they think that women likes them.

Not to mention the many wars through out history caused by a would be beautiful woman

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

As a woman, I do NOT and should not be held accountable for the way men act. If someone followed you all over town because they had a crush, you would find it cute?

If someone followed you all over town because their teacher asked them to who do you arrest?

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

If someone followed you all over town because their teacher asked them to who do you arrest?

Not if they were my assigned body guard, no. Why? Because it's their job.

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

It could be a mix of both, following and crush.

Lion-o needed her to look him in the eyes. It looked like she just came up with an excuse. That made lion-o even more angry.

Now you got his look on his face in the AP after cheetara kissed him.

Drama must go on.

She is ashamed for offending her King and angering him.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

As a woman, I do NOT and should not be held accountable for the way men act. If someone followed you all over town because they had a crush, you would find it cute?

You are responsible for your actions. I am with someone, I do not even attempt to put myself in a position where another women thinks I like her. I do not touch or whisper in their ears.

It depends. In the context we are talking about, if she followed him, maybe she was interested about him. Jaga saw something in him, so maybe she was curious. I am not saying that is what she did.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

If someone followed you all over town because their teacher asked them to who do you arrest?

Oh... I know... I know... I will go with cheetara's answer, it was jaga.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Not to mention the many wars through out history caused by a would be beautiful woman

Agreed.

You could said the lion-o dynasty died out over a women.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Not if they were my assigned body guard, no. Why? Because it's their job.

You don't keep a bodyguard a secret from his target, but that's on Jaga.

[CCDustyV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Disagree or agree with the last part, that doesn't detract from Lion-O's reaction to her saying it.

don't get me wrong, Lion O is far from faultless here, All three have done things that have made this love triangle more of a headache than it should have.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

You are responsible for your actions. I am with someone, I do not even attempt to put myself in a position where another women thinks I like her. I do not touch or whisper in their ears.

It depends. In the context we are talking about, if she followed him, maybe she was interested about him. Jaga saw something in him, so maybe she was curious. I am not saying that is what she did.

The fact that even outside observers,(Tygra and the Wilykittens) thought that something was going on between Lion-o and Cheetara, makes it highly unlikely that Lion-o was "misreading her signs". Cheetara just seems desperate to avoid responsibility for her decisions.

[SirSapphire]

I understand why the writers do and don't do certain things, it keeps the drama going and drama is what drives the show (in-between action). But no one is innocent in the triangle fiasco.

[KaleRylan]

Okay, I blame it on the writers.

Let's face it, Cheetarah lead Lion-o on. And part of the reason this is true is that even Tygra thought she had picked Lion-o. No one important believed she had any interest in Tygra, not even Tygra. She was NOT clear.

The thing is, in the end this is the fault of the writers due to one simple choice. They chose to say that she liked Tygra ALL ALONG. And that was their mistake. Had they just said she was conflicted, but chose Tygra in the end, then there would be no problem. She wouldn't be a tease, she would just be a person with confused feelings, something she has every right to be.

It is the fact that she supposedly ALWAYS liked Tygra and yet spent all of her time with Lion-o to the point that the guy she liked had no idea she liked him. And that is why she should apologize, to both of them (though the making out probably counts in Tygra's case).

But this is a writer's mistake primarily, they chose to explain Cheetarah's actions in a way that made no sense, by saying she had picked one before the story even started. Look at the classic robotech triangle, everyone in that story leads on everyone else, but it doesn't make them bad people because they are honestly confused.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

You are responsible for your actions. I am with someone, I do not even attempt to put myself in a position where another women thinks I like her. I do not touch or whisper in their ears.

It depends. In the context we are talking about, if she followed him, maybe she was interested about him. Jaga saw something in him, so maybe she was curious. I am not saying that is what she did.

Cheetara was not with anyone, and she did not act that way with the intentions of becoming Lion-O's girlfriend .

[KaleRylan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The fact that even outside observers,(Tygra and the Wilykittens) thought that something was going on between Lion-o and Cheetara, makes it highly unlikely that Lion-o was "misreading her signs". Cheetara just seems desperate to avoid responsibility for her decisions.

This is basically what I just said, but I didn't see your post. I just wanted to mention though, it's incredibly appropriate that you list Tygra, the guy that WON the love triangle, as an outside observer. Because that is how he was depicted.

[Big Snarf]

Well lion-o should be able to get the next stone without opposition when he returns or at least take a quick look for it. If he gets it before he rejoins the team I wonder what are they going to say

[KaleRylan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Cheetara was not with anyone, and she did not act that way with the intentions of becoming Lion-O's girlfriend .

Okay, I had a girlfriend that always used to make this argument. She felt strongly about people's right to platonic relationships, and I mostly agreed with her. But if you want to be platonic, you do have a responsibility to behave platonically. You have to make sure your own actions aren't romantic. We had several cases where she invited guys over she thought were cool and they thought she was trying to hook up with them because of how she had behaved (she was never big for personal space) only to discover her boyfriend at home.

Yes, the other person shouldn't jump too far ahead, that's not your fault, but you also should behave responsibly. Just because they're wrong doesn't mean you're not. You're both perfectly capable of being wrong together.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

Okay, I had a girlfriend that always used to make this argument. She felt strongly about people's right to platonic relationships, and I mostly agreed with her. But if you want to be platonic, you do have a responsibility to behave platonically. You have to make sure your own actions aren't romantic. We had several cases where she invited guys over she thought were cool and they thought she was trying to hook up with them because of how she had behaved (she was never big for personal space) only to discover her boyfriend at home.

Yes, the other person shouldn't jump too far ahead, that's not your fault, but you also should behave responsibly. Just because they're wrong doesn't mean you're not. You're both perfectly capable of being wrong together.

You win the internet forever.

[CCDustyV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Disagree or agree with the last part, that doesn't detract from Lion-O's reaction to her saying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

Okay, I blame it on the writers.

Let's face it, Cheetarah lead Lion-o on. And part of the reason this is true is that even Tygra thought she had picked Lion-o. No one important believed she had any interest in Tygra, not even Tygra. She was NOT clear.

The thing is, in the end this is the fault of the writers due to one simple choice. They chose to say that she liked Tygra ALL ALONG. And that was their mistake. Had they just said she was conflicted, but chose Tygra in the end, then there would be no problem. She wouldn't be a tease, she would just be a person with confused feelings, something she has every right to be.

It is the fact that she supposedly ALWAYS liked Tygra and yet spent all of her time with Lion-o to the point that the guy she liked had no idea she liked him. And that is why she should apologize, to both of them (though the making out probably counts in Tygra's case).

But this is a writer's mistake primarily, they chose to explain Cheetarah's actions in a way that made no sense, by saying she had picked one before the story even started. Look at the classic robotech triangle, everyone in that story leads on everyone else, but it doesn't make them bad people because they are honestly confused.

If they had done the triangle like Rick/Lisa/Minmei, I'd not only go with whoever got Cheetara in the end, but I'd actually enjoy that sorta triangle for the whole 50 odd eps this series is supposed to be. I'm still hoping that all the wrongness and wierd out of sorts this triangle has been was on purpose and the writers are up to something... I've waited tooo long for another Thundercats series for them to blow a big part like this. small bits here and there I can deal, but the actual romantic subplot can make or break a show.