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Old 05-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #351
Balgus82
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Originally Posted by KaleRylan View Post
umm... solar system and a galaxy are not really the same, and not on the same scale. Though even destroying a solar system seems a little stronger than what we've seen so far.
Well really he destroys the star in the center of that solar system. But killing the star pretty much means death to the rest. And he didn't use his magic or anything to do it, he sent out a satellite/bomb or something from his ship.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:25 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Balgus82 View Post
Well really he destroys the star in the center of that solar system. But killing the star pretty much means death to the rest. And he didn't use his magic or anything to do it, he sent out a satellite/bomb or something from his ship.
ah, I see. Makes you wonder why repairing the ship isn't priority number one if it has that kind of power.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:32 PM   #353
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ah, I see. Makes you wonder why repairing the ship isn't priority number one if it has that kind of power.
well until he finds the sword/stones, destroying the planet would kinda be overkill, don't ya think? lol
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:15 AM   #354
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Look who has both swords. There goes one theory.

"You're crazier than Kaynar!" LMAO
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:15 AM   #355
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I basically agree with you, but I'm not sure what 'equality' you're talking about. Do you just mean dominance in the relationship? Or who's issues are being dealt with? Or who's POV is given weight?

Because for dominance and POV, it's pretty much always gonna be Lion-o, for the reasons I stated above. But if you're talking who's issues they're working through, then yeah, it would be nice if that was balanced.

I disagree that his position as king doesn't have to affect his romantic ones. It's not a job you go home from. I would like it though if they made it an issue and then deal with it well like you said.

I don't think it's absurd, it just depends what exactly you're asking for. It will always be defined by Lion-o, but it would be nice if he deals with other people's crap sometimes too. Tygra's episode being a good example. This is a funny show, and I put very little past them. They do an enormous amount of really stupid thing, but they also do a lot of things really well, and you can never guess what will be good each weekend. It's that inconsistency that frustrates the hell out of me, but it's the potential that keeps me watching.
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It will always be defined by Lion-o, but it would be nice if he deals with other people's crap sometimes too.
This is really just my personal preference, but basically this. I mean, the show might just turn Pumyra into a replacement cheerleader, and I wont like it.
Eh, don't want to give you the wrong impression with the dominant/submissive thing. I just don't want to see anyone really, just shot down because Lion-O is ruler and they must always obey. What if he's wrong? What if someone else has a better idea? The whole idea just freaks me out, especially when it comes to a romantic relationship. I know he wouldn't treat his GF like crap, I just want a better dynamic between him and his love interest. Once again, personal preference. Who knows what the shows going to give us as far a group dynamic( post trials), I'm just talking personal preference here.

What I want, and what I'll get are going to be two different things. I want to feel like both parties are comfortable speaking up. Everyone shutting up because he is king is just not my thing. It just annoys me. Personal preference. Ugh, now that I'm getting this all out, maybe I wont ship
Lion-O with anyone...
I get that he is King and this is his show, but I guess I don't want to see the romance handled so...cold I guess,It wont be any fun for me. Cold is probably not the best word. I know Lion-O is not some heartless bastard.
I certainly don't want to see someone defined by Lion-O, or Tygra.

Overall, I think the having someone else issues dealt with is probably what I'm asking for. Not only will it develop who ever she is, but we can get another side of Lion-O (Native Son).
kind of went over board with the "personal preference" thing. Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to be a jerk or abrasive. Too lazy to edit (;

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Old 05-10-2012, 12:43 AM   #356
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Both the SoP and the gauntlet are glowing pinkish, but not the SoO nor Lion-O's gauntlet, and I can see them attached to his hip. The crystals/rocks around them are glowing reddish... I am guessing that's some other area of Ratar-O's mine but I'd really like to know where they are and the reason for that unhealthy glow in Mumm-Ra's weapons.

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Old 05-10-2012, 02:21 AM   #357
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know after reading all the possibilities and the amount of detail that you look at the series, from my point of view I think is very good I really like, is like Batman we saw in the 90 `s and now the batman The Dark Knight. and I think it buenisimo - IMO -. it's like when you read a book and then make a movie, there are many details that one finds but still the same, equal but not the same. and in this case is very good. (as happened with The Lord of the Rings)
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:15 AM   #358
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This is really just my personal preference, but basically this. I mean, the show might just turn Pumyra into a replacement cheerleader, and I wont like it.
Eh, don't want to give you the wrong impression with the dominant/submissive thing. I just don't want to see anyone really, just shot down because Lion-O is ruler and they must always obey. What if he's wrong? What if someone else has a better idea? The whole idea just freaks me out, especially when it comes to a romantic relationship. I know he wouldn't treat his GF like crap, I just want a better dynamic between him and his love interest. Once again, personal preference. Who knows what the shows going to give us as far a group dynamic( post trials), I'm just talking personal preference here.

What I want, and what I'll get are going to be two different things. I want to feel like both parties are comfortable speaking up. Everyone shutting up because he is king is just not my thing. It just annoys me. Personal preference. Ugh, now that I'm getting this all out, maybe I wont ship
Lion-O with anyone...
I get that he is King and this is his show, but I guess I don't want to see the romance handled so...cold I guess,It wont be any fun for me. Cold is probably not the best word. I know Lion-O is not some heartless bastard.
I certainly don't want to see someone defined by Lion-O, or Tygra.

Overall, I think the having someone else issues dealt with is probably what I'm asking for. Not only will it develop who ever she is, but we can get another side of Lion-O (Native Son).
kind of went over board with the "personal preference" thing. Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to be a jerk or abrasive. Too lazy to edit (;
I'm gonna be frank, it sounds like you've got two problems that are kind of mixing together. On one side you've got the standard feminist ideal that women aren't property and have the right to opinions and so on. And on the other side you have the modern liberal idea that people in general are equal and a relationship should be a partnership between equals. These are both theories that I agree with and believe in.

But I don't think a king fits into them, largely because both belief were created largely in rebellion against the patriarchal authority that a king represents. (I'm getting deep here) Saying no to a ruler is complicated. Any good ruler knows how to listen to council, but it's not the same as with you and me. The council doesn't literally tell the king NO, they just sort of respectfully disagree.

I agree this can be cold, but like you said, I think the way they can have fun with this is to grab hold of the fact that he's king and basically make it the centerpiece. The old 'see past the crown to the real man' story that's been done forever. It's a good plot, and it would work here. I think to have a LI just ignore the fact that he's king would be disrespectful to him and weird, given how much focus they've put on the 'i'm the king, you have to follow my orders' stuff in this series.

And hopefully, despite or because of this, they'll deal with her issues too. But it's also important to note that a big part of being a good queen was being supportive of the guy with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Not very equal/feminist, but monarchy wasn't a very equal/feminist institution.

I'll say this for Pumyra though, while she is already turning into a big fan of Lion-o, she certainly seems to have her own opinions. Most subjects wouldn't judo-throw their king to the ground. So she may be just what you're looking for.

Last edited by KaleRylan; 05-10-2012 at 03:18 AM..
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:36 AM   #359
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I have a bad feeling... very bad feeling, and it's only partially about the army surrounding our feline heroes...

Tygra's eye quirks a lil when Lion O mentioned the Sword of Plundarr rivaled his own - check

overly romantic episode several episodes away from a season fanale - check

Cheetara issuing a warning that "this weapon was not meant to be used by a cat" - check

add all these factors up: Tygra's going to do something very, very stupid.

my own prediction for the next ep, Tygra's going to use the Sword and Claw of Plundarr and will end up corrupted, and it could also possibly lead to at least the beginnings of the end of the Ti/Chee relationship. which will coincide with Lion O hooking up with Pumyra, thus fulfilling to my earlier prediction of Cheetara getting a shock view of Lion O and Pumyra kissing like she and Tygra did way back in ep 13.

but beyond my predictions and theories, one thing for sure from that cliffhanger.

this is a big Uh Oh situation...

Recall the OS episode 'All That Glitters" we see Lion-O and Tygra fighting and the Sword being broken. We also get some tastey Lion-O/Cheetara hintings in that episode as well.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:38 AM   #360
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https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!...1&notif_t=like

A post from Dan Norton, art director of Thundercats. Worth reading his last few posts.

Danny Norton is posting comments? I must check this out!
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:44 AM   #361
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???

I just see him getting on the poster.

I see that poster getting onto Daniel and Daniel crawling into a fetal position and sucking his thumb. Whoever that Nick guy is, thumbs up for taking Daniel to the woodshed over the poorly done (and apparently a BS lie) love triangle and working the guy over. Daniel Norton was just outmatched and outclassed.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:46 AM   #362
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Oh, i found it. It's somewhere in there, that the triangle was fake and he justified the flower thing too. Though since he also called Cheetara an anorexic ho i'm not surprised he's flipping out.

Daniel Norton called Cheetara an anorexic ho?

More proof Daniel Norton is nothing but a misogynist.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:48 AM   #363
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I like tygra to go on the dark side for a little bit.

All lion-o needs is the green stone and he will have the AoO.

I want to see a big B/B one last time.

maybe the writers plan on ripping off the OS episode "All that Glitters" and have the brothers fight. Although if they did, I would dread it since the TC Staff is so buttkissingly obsessed with making Tygra the ultimate Gary Stu.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:50 AM   #364
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If a Thundercat is to head for the dark side and be corrupted, it'd likely be Tygra since he's arrogant. I could also see Lion-O replacing Tygra with Bengali if this were to happen. I agree that Tygra could wield the Sword of Plundarr without the gauntlet and try to battle Lion-O.


Hate to say it but I'd love to see this Tygra get splattered all over the place and Bengali fill the slot. The reboot Tygra is just too 180 degrees for my liking. All the other cats excpet Tygra have elements of their OS counterparts.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:51 AM   #365
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Yeah the SoO has been pretty weak so far, I mean not even one good "Sword of Omens, come to my hand", yet.

I recall all the abilities it used to have. Now, it's just a big toothpick.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:54 AM   #366
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Dan implied that Tygra and Cheetara have stolen moments together over the years, but that they just haven't shown it on the show yet. He said we've seen less than half of the story and some things just set things up for the future.


Dan gave one of the most pathetic excuses ever right there.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:56 AM   #367
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Got to tell you guys, after reading about the facebook posts by Dan Norton, and watching this episode.......I think I'm done with this series.

I was a fan of the original series as a kid and maybe i am a little biased in how some of the characters and plot have been handled versus how i believe they should have been handled. Since the end of ep 13 the series left a bad taste in my mouth (The 180 in the triangle and the inconsistency in characters) I thought with time they would have had an overall reasoning for it, but now knowing that a good portion of it was to mess with us. and now they are just going to use future episodes as tools for justifying that mess?.........no....no I'm sorry but no.

The episodes that followed, while some have been good, have just drained my enthusiasm for the overall plot and really just sapped my desire to see the resolution. I have tried to muster up resolve to see it through but, I just can't anymore.

If the show continues and I hear good things about future episodes, I'll maybe give it another shot but as of right now.......there's legend of korra I could be watching.

To each his own, so if you are enjoying this series, by all means disregard everything I just said and keep on keeping on.

Well said and I couldn't agree with you more about Dan Norton's post as well as the way the series is going. Although, I still find enough good things about it to watch but i will say those good aspects are circling the drain quickly.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:57 AM   #368
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Series could be better. The first few eps had a sort of epic feel to it. Now I feel like we're down to 'what is the problem of the week that we'll solve and probably NEVER mention again' syndrome

Too true. The piolt got me all kinds of fired up but every episode after just kept putting out that fire.


Sadly, it seems the TC reboot is destined for the same results as He-Man and Voltron.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:58 AM   #369
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Yes, but that reflects the skill of the wielder more than the power of the sword itself. Leo was able to do awesome things with it and even Claudus was able to get it to do things Lion-O can't yet (the whole single stroke thing), but so far only Lion-O is confirmed to be able to use Sight Beyond Sight. Lion-O has made great progress, but he still isn't quite the King spoken of in the prophecy heard in the pilot.

This is true but one would think after completing the Trials, SOMETHING would have been upgraded.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:01 AM   #370
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also he wasn't specific on the misdirection. heck, he could be tossing false bones in the posts, JKR did the exact same thing through interviews through the HP saga. He never said who would be with who, just that things will be explained as they go. and regardless, old saying on interviews and shows, "trust episodes, not interviews".

With the sheer amount of chutzpah and self-absorbed narcissism Dan Norton showed in those posts, I doubt it. Seems he was more-so trying to come up with a petty excuse because he couldn't succeed in countering the well thought out and formulated points raised against him.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:02 AM   #371
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The Sword of Omens is weak sauce in this series compared to the original. In the OS the sword is epic yet here it plays second fiddle to the spirit stone and frankly I am growing tired of it (granted I was never keen on the stones storyline to begin with).

I miss "sword come to my hand" as well and all the other things that made the SoO so great. Little touches like the sword going into short sword mode after being knocked out of Lion-o's hand go a long way. Its as if the sword were some what "alive" in the OS. Here it feels like it is just a weapon. A cool weapon, but nothing compared to the original. There is nothing "mystical" about it or anything. We barely even get to see "Sight Beyond Sight".

And when was the last time we saw Panthro wield his Nun Chucks? Why does he even carry them anymore?

I know some of the guys involved in the NS are supposed to be hardcore Tcats fans but sometimes it doesn't seem like it as they leave out all the things that made Thundercats stand out.



The OS berbil episode where Lion-O summons an energy shield with the sword to drive of the giants...brilliant!

WB and the TC Crew should be brought up on charges.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:06 AM   #372
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If this Daniel Norton has any control over the story then it would explain then it would explain the horrendous inconsistencies on this show.

His excuses basically amounted to:
1) It all happened off screen
2) It occurred in the past but wasn’t shown
3) There was really no triangle anyway

One of the strongest criticisms was that there was practically no worthwhile interaction between Tygra and Cheetara which could serve as a legitimate basis for her decision to choose him. He just avoids this.
If I remember correctly, it is not even shown that they had previous contact until episode 12!

And did he forget that the “triangle” was used to build up the advertising hype (e.g. interviews with VAs)?

If having Tygra and Cheetara together is so important, at least do it believably, without ruining a huge aspect of the show.

I agree with you and that Nick guy 100%. Seems Daniel threw a bit of a temper tantrum after and started slinging insults because his excuses failed.

Those posts from Daniel Norton do serve one good thing though. They show that HE is the inspiration for all of Tygras flaws.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:13 AM   #373
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The nature of Tygra and Cheetara's relationship and past interactions in episode 12 is a reveal, not a retcon. There is nothing about it that conflicts with previously established history, it's just new information being brought to light. Tygra's attraction is hinted at throughout the show, in the first episode he winks at her during Lion-O's test, in "Journey to the Tower of Omens" he stares like an idiot at her as she runs up the walls of the tower, in "Sight Beyond Sight" the entire race was just a cock fight between the brothers over her attention, and in "The Forest of Magi Oar" he gives her a flirtatious look after he catches her (this being the first time she actually reacts to any of his antics).

Cheetara was harder to figure out because she spent so much time with Lion-O trying to support him in his quest to master the sword, master himself, and gather the rest of the stones, however there are small moments where one could theorize where her feelings truly lie (such as in "Berbils" where she opts to sleep next to Tygra).

Yes, the did play up Lion-O/Cheetara so that when she chooses Tygra it feels like a twist, but if you pay attention and actually watch the show it's not that hard to figure out (the almost exact same thing happened in Gurren Lagann with Simon/Yoko/Kanima, this only difference is instead of Tygra it was Lion-O who dies).

retcon definition

/ret'kon/ retroactive continuity.
The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation.


All of Tygra's 'flirting" can also been seen as simply in his character. The wink - Tygra is a flirt with the ladies. Easily seen within his character and even stated in the show.

Tower of Omens, they all looked pretty impressed.

The race - again, within tygras personality to "show off" that he is better than Lion-O. As a matter of fact, that is the overall feel i took away from the scene; not that Tygra was trying to impress Cheetara but more so that he just wanted to make Lion-O LOOK BAD.

There are those who do/did pay attention and watch the episodes and they saw Lion-O/Cheetara.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:15 AM   #374
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There were plenty of hints that Tygra 'liked what he saw' but this deep bond that they seem to want us to believe, I don't see at all. same with Cheetara's "support" of Lion O. those were boarderline seduction techniques. I just call fowl there all the way around.

Wouldn't mind Pumyra calling Cheetara out on it too sometime.

So true. Seems quite a few are calling foul on the way it was done. Also seems like Daniel Norton can't accept the fact that fans find fault with the show. I guess he is just too headstrong to grasp that no show is perfect and fans will find faults.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:18 AM   #375
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My point was to aviod fans being mad about the trinagle. Quad would have been great.

We don't know when we will get the next 26 episodes. If it happens, it might be a year from now.

That is my problem with this show, it is always lion-o has to so this or that. Will it ever end.


You are aware that in the OS and this reboot Lion-O is the central character?
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:20 AM   #376
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Ok, ehm, no to step on anyone's toes. It would be BORING to overpower the SoO so often as shown in the TOS. Old Lion-O wileded his sword and voilá, the foes are gone. I like that he has to "work" and not rely on the magic of the sword.


Just watch it as it is, don't overanalyse it and keep watching.

And to all others: I really am about to quit here, since I see only people whining about this or that. You know what I do? *takes rose tinted glasses and crush it under the foot*. TC2011 brought me here to enjoy. Be grateful that you'll get to see a new TC series for a long time and that the new series wins new fans. If any of can do it better, go ahead. I wanna see that. But effing stop whining about the stories and the T/C relation inconsistencies. If you wanna please everyone, you'll please noone at the end.

To be honest, TOS TC wasn't my favourite, I never liked the repetitive easy defeat of Mumm-ra and his minions, I hated OldSnarf, I hated the fact, that they rub the lessons into your face at the end of each episode and that the zeitgeist was that they think 80's kids are so dumb.

I like that the characters in TC2011 aren't perfect, but they are more relatable and that not everything was hunky-dory. Fine if you got a problem with it, but don't sour the enjoyment for others.


I'm sorry but I thought this was the place to come and dicuss things. Do you live in China? In America we have this thing called a Constitution and the first Amendment to it allows us to come to places like this and discuss.

You always have the option to leave.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:21 AM   #377
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that is how 80 cartoons were done.

This is a message board or forum. If people want to whine they can.

Isn't the job of the writers to make a good story? If fans complain about say a nba or nfl team, are you going to tell them to go out there and play? They don't have the same skill level.

After steelers (fan of) won the sb, steelers fans were finding something to complain about. It is what it is.

The writers are paid to write a story, we are not. People have a right to complain.

I don't think lion-o worked to win in episode 20. It was over fast imo.


well said and thank you
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:22 AM   #378
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There's a difference between spotting legitimate flaws in a show and complaining for the sake of complaining (the so-called "right to complain") because things don't conform to your own personal desires. That's just childish.

Thus far, all I have seen are complaints about legitimate flaws in the show.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:28 AM   #379
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I take issue with the way the triangle was executed. I never denied the validity of the information presented.



Sure, Tygra’s attraction is definitely hinted at. I never said it wasn’t. What I meant was that there was nothing noteworthy about their interaction that would show why Cheetara made her decision. I saw nothing on Cheetara’s behalf that would have signalled her jump to Team Tygra.

Cheetara is one of the characters on this show who has gotten next to no development. First, she’s simply treated as a prize to won by Lion-O and Tygra. Then came episode 13, the 180 turn and a sudden change in personality.

A few fleeting moments between Tygra and Cheetara simply does not compare to the manner in which Lion-O and Cheetara’s relationship was built up consistently until ep. 13.




It’s very convenient to say at the end, like DN, that there was no triangle and that it all happened off-screen in the past. However, there are numerous ways to add a twist to a story without provoking such strong incredulity. That is my point.

Overall, romance seems to be a serious problem with this show. This latest episode was so corny, it could have been a parody.





I assume this was directed at me? Whenever I complain, I give numerous reasons as to why I do so.

I repeatedly bring up the triangle because it featured as a prominent part of the story and if it was done in such a shoddy manner, I don’t see the problem in asking questions.


You and that Nick guy who schooled Daniel Norton seem to share many of the same points and both of you are amazing when it comes to delivering those points.

As I read the debate between Nick and Daniel, I found myself amazed that WB would even employ such a person.
Rude, crass, childish all describe DN.
Lackluster, pathetic, and all around shoddy describe DN's excuses for the shows failings.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:30 AM   #380
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I find it odd about the stolen moments when they could have just confessed and saved a lot of trouble and heartache for everyone instead of dragging it on for years.



I am more inclined to believe that "stolen moments" thing was just thrown out by Daniel because he was getting his block knocked off and was desperate to get out of an unwinnable situation so he just said something moronic as usual that opened up more questions than anything else.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #381
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Anyway for those who can't see the thread or don't use FB this is what he said about the triangle.

"As far as the confusion with the "love triangle"... Think of it like this, you're a young boy, a very beautiful woman is giving you what seems like every signal that she's into you.. And everything you know is wrong, mistranslated and completely illogical. You feel like Lion-O feels. I'm sorry you don't see how something as simple as a flower can mean so much to someone who is in need, but that's where Cheetarah is coming from. I can clearly remember my first crush with pure clarity. When Cheetarah joined the clerics, that may have been her only moment of childhood crush. That could be a powerful thing. And none of her moments with Lion-O are disingenuous, she did love him in her way, not the way you want her to love. She's also not an infallible character, she's torn between love and duty. She's not Jaga, but a girl who is thrust into a situation she's trained for but couldn't imagine."

Ummm, no it's not Balgus. I'm looking at that thread right now. That is one of the EXCUSES he used but that Nick guy was right on the ball with a counter of: "
The flaw with your analogy is it lacks that third party to make it a love triangle. It also lacks that third party coming in at the last minute with some bupkis backstory detailed in brief flashbacks about knowing the beautiful girl longer and winning her heart BEFORE the young boy ever even knew of the beautiful woman. It also lacks the third party complaining that nothing about the young boy is fair and that he doesn’t deserve the girl. All of which directly relate to the TC love triangle."

Now, let's post what daniel Norton ACTUALLY said about the Triangle: "You're mislead to believe it's a relationship between two but the flashback reveals where the other relationship started. If you remember, Tygra was flirting with her during the sword ceremony from the first episode. Though we haven't shown it at this point, you don't know how many times they have stolen moments during their paths crossing before. But the most pivotal moment in Cheetarah's life was joining the Clerics. Tygra helped her achieve that. Lion-O is an assignment. She saw something special in him and she supported him, period."


Sorry balgus but according to DN, there never was a triangle, Tygra and not Jaga was solely responsible for Cheetara becoming a cleric and Lion-O is just Cheetara's 9-5 job.


You can defend DN all you want but from what I am reading all DN did was show show just what type of spoiled, low class individual he really is.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:40 AM   #382
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The flower thing again? I've never met a girl who got a flower like that and fell in love because it meant so much to her when she was upset. That makes no sense

That Nick guy brought it up to Daniel. DN's rely was that flowers are important to girls and that more than the flower giving has taken place but they just never showed it.

Yet again it was another pathetic excuse by DN. My God DN just looked like arank amateur and an abject failure in that debate.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:41 AM   #383
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You are aware that in the OS and this reboot Lion-O is the central character?
I am a lion-o fan. IMO, MJ has made tygra outshine lion-o.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:43 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by AlexofThundera View Post
I'm thinking they took inspiration from the scene in Braveheart.


Except in Braveheart, the two knew each other practically since birth. All the TC crew showed was that Tygra gave Cheetara directions, then stalked her like a date rapist than gave her a flower after he tried to kill Lion-O.

As Nick pointed out to DN, Cheetara was shown choosing Tygra because of who he WAS then and not who he IS now and that was just 180 degrees against her character.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:46 AM   #385
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Tygra gave a flower when she was stuck outside.
Lion O gave his soul to save them when they were stuck in Mumm-Ra's base.

um... who gave more?


Holy Poopins! CC, AWESOME post.

And let's not forget, while Tygra's flower gave her hope she would become a cleric, every aspect of Lion-O's being gives her hope they will triumph and survive.

The simple fact is, it is obvious Lion-O has given more and done more for Cheetara but the TC crew don't take things like that into consideration. All they care about is what makes THEM happy, not what makes the fans happy.
That much is obvious in Daniel Norton's facebook exchange.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #386
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I am more inclined to believe that "stolen moments" thing was just thrown out by Daniel because he was getting his block knocked off and was desperate to get out of an unwinnable situation so he just said something moronic as usual that opened up more questions than anything else.
Stolen moments to me meant off screen. I know that is a bad excuse, but that is what I got from it.l
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #387
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Yeah, but the flower was just for her. She had to share Lion-O's soul with the other cats.



But not Lion-O's heart. That warm ball of gold was gonna be all Cheetara's but poor writing dictated she choose Tygra's lump of tar-waste.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #388
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I think the difference is with Simon's LI (Nia Teppelin ) comes around episode 9.
The difference is that Gurren Lagann is an AWESOME show and TC isn't. At that level anyway. When Lion-O can frigging bend space-time with the power of his awesomeness, then maybe I'll think differently.

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I take issue with the way the triangle was executed. I never denied the validity of the information presented.

Sure, Tygra’s attraction is definitely hinted at. I never said it wasn’t. What I meant was that there was nothing noteworthy about their interaction that would show why Cheetara made her decision. I saw nothing on Cheetara’s behalf that would have signalled her jump to Team Tygra.

Cheetara is one of the characters on this show who has gotten next to no development. First, she’s simply treated as a prize to won by Lion-O and Tygra. Then came episode 13, the 180 turn and a sudden change in personality.

I repeatedly bring up the triangle because it featured as a prominent part of the story and if it was done in such a shoddy manner, I don’t see the problem in asking questions.
More like the writers are falling into the 'tell, not show' trap. It's not an uncommon one and if any of you have ever read fanfiction, you would know what I mean -_- Some examples in actual published fiction, Star Ocean III? The big reveal? Yeah, that was out of frigging nowhere. You're playing a JRPG about some people who were out to save their universe from the big bad, only to discover that the party? They're actually NPCs in a giant MMO. The big bad? The server administrators. That TOTALLY came out of nowhere with no frigging hints at all during the entire game. Others off the top of my head, the romance with Ginny and Harry (did I miss something in the first 6 books that would have indicated this??), most movies by M. Night Shyamalan; EXCEPT the 6th sense cause that one you already had the feeling something was very wrong with Bruce Willis character.

It's sorta like playing with a DM who springs major stuff on you with no foreshadowing.

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Originally Posted by CCDustyV View Post
will admit the YJ time jump did bother me at first as well, but now I'm more ok with it, be better if I get good news on the KF/A front... anyway, I agree a time jump like Naruto's would be great for this show.
Eh, didn't like the YJ timeskip for several reasons. One was that it was too long of a time skip. It sort of killed the momentum of the cliffhanger from S1. They couldn't find anything out about the Light for 5 years? Really?? Secondly, the disappearance of too many old characters. For one thing, considering they replaced most of their cast except for Superboy and Ms. Martian *both of whom I find boring anyway*, it's kind of a slap in the face to the S1 fans. Because the S1 characters are the ones the S1 fans have gotten close to, the ones they've rooted for and suddenly they're gone just like that in S2 with no explanation. This doesn't seem like good writing to me. At least with the transition from JL to JLU, you still saw the core 6 very frequently.

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Originally Posted by hollowdheart View Post
More Leo/Panthera? Finally!
This is pretty my OTP of the series. The only relationship without bs drama.

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Originally Posted by KaleRylan View Post
I agree this can be cold, but like you said, I think the way they can have fun with this is to grab hold of the fact that he's king and basically make it the centerpiece. The old 'see past the crown to the real man' story that's been done forever. It's a good plot, and it would work here. I think to have a LI just ignore the fact that he's king would be disrespectful to him and weird, given how much focus they've put on the 'i'm the king, you have to follow my orders' stuff in this series.

And hopefully, despite or because of this, they'll deal with her issues too. But it's also important to note that a big part of being a good queen was being supportive of the guy with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Not very equal/feminist, but monarchy wasn't a very equal/feminist institution.

I'll say this for Pumyra though, while she is already turning into a big fan of Lion-o, she certainly seems to have her own opinions. Most subjects wouldn't judo-throw their king to the ground. So she may be just what you're looking for.
Um...most if not ALL of the people he's been travelling with WOULD judo-throw him to the ground. Lion-O doesn't really get much respect from the rest of the cats.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:52 AM   #389
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Ummm, no it's not Balgus. I'm looking at that thread right now. That is one of the EXCUSES he used but that Nick guy was right on the ball with a counter of: "
The flaw with your analogy is it lacks that third party to make it a love triangle. It also lacks that third party coming in at the last minute with some bupkis backstory detailed in brief flashbacks about knowing the beautiful girl longer and winning her heart BEFORE the young boy ever even knew of the beautiful woman. It also lacks the third party complaining that nothing about the young boy is fair and that he doesn’t deserve the girl. All of which directly relate to the TC love triangle."

Now, let's post what daniel Norton ACTUALLY said about the Triangle: "You're mislead to believe it's a relationship between two but the flashback reveals where the other relationship started. If you remember, Tygra was flirting with her during the sword ceremony from the first episode. Though we haven't shown it at this point, you don't know how many times they have stolen moments during their paths crossing before. But the most pivotal moment in Cheetarah's life was joining the Clerics. Tygra helped her achieve that. Lion-O is an assignment. She saw something special in him and she supported him, period."


Sorry balgus but according to DN, there never was a triangle, Tygra and not Jaga was solely responsible for Cheetara becoming a cleric and Lion-O is just Cheetara's 9-5 job.


You can defend DN all you want but from what I am reading all DN did was show show just what type of spoiled, low class individual he really is.
Plus they really tried to push the "love triangle is important to the story".
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:54 AM   #390
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It wasn't just a flower. It was a way for her to achieve her dream of becoming a Cleric.

That is debatable.

1. Jaga wanted her to learn patience. She failed the initial test due to her lack of it. Sitting on the steps to near death could be pointed out as enough reason to allow her in.

2. It could be argued that it is not within Jaga's nature to leave her to die on the steps thus he would have brought her in even without the flower.

3. Tygra didn't know anything about the properties so he had no way of knowing it would help or not.

4. Considering how easily replacable the characters are, it doesn't strike me as any kind of defining moment. Simply because it just as easily could have been Lion-o giving her the flower.

5. Sounds like you are trying to make brownie points with DN by parroting the poor excuses DN used on FB. Are you by chance that Phillip person I see also commenting on FB?
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #391
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I do kinda miss some of the insane crazyness you could only get with a half hour toy commercial. One episode would be Lion-O trying to save unicorns from cyborg vikings. Another would be Tygra and a Warrior maiden getting stuck invisible during a rescue mission. Half the cats taking the Thundertank undersea to help a walrus fight a giant robot. Mumm-Ra summons a samurai to mess Lion-O up. You just did not know what crazy thing was going to happen when you turned on the TV. Also the snazy theme.
I'm right there with you man. It seemed like every episode we were seeing things that were so "out there" it was awesome. The Living Ooze, The Enflamer, Mandora, and one of my personal favorites; The Black Widow Shark are just a few that come to mind.

I feel like those creatures, allies, enemies, and environments are a reflection of how the writers of the OS were free to create very crazy things, and it worked.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:56 AM   #392
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Well for one thing that was after she had already chosen Tygra.

And that can't cause a change of heart?

Are you now going to parrot DN's excuses about "first love" "crushes" and all his other laughable remarks?
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:56 AM   #393
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He didn't know it was a magic flower though. And it was a cop out, imo.


Not just your opinion. Seems a LOT of fans find it to be a cop out.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:56 AM   #394
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But not Lion-O's heart. That warm ball of gold was gonna be all Cheetara's but poor writing dictated she choose Tygra's lump of tar-waste.
LOL.

MJ said he is going upstage tygra. I have never seen a crew dump so much on the hero.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:57 AM   #395
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The thing is, Jaga wouldn't allow her to die. It was a test.

Exactly. Which is why the flower makes no sense as a definign moment for the relationship between Tygra and Cheetara. I hold that it was just a poorly planned, written and executed plot hole.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:00 AM   #396
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So you're saying Jaga would've let Lion-O come back to life even if he hadn't risked his soul?

Jaga didn't decide that, the Spirit Stone did. Besides, Jaga and Lion-O were both already dead when Lion-O offered his sould. Both Jaga and Cheetara were very much alive when Jaga tested Cheetara's patience.

You compare apples to oranges and expect to get strawberries Balgus.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:03 AM   #397
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And that can't cause a change of heart?

Are you now going to parrot DN's excuses about "first love" "crushes" and all his other laughable remarks?
Plus they said misdirections. Is it only to PO fans of L/C or will we see more of it.

First love crushes is BS especailly for 12 year old kids.

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Old 05-10-2012, 09:03 AM   #398
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Ah, you must have missed the anorexic ho thing that was flying around here ...sorry for taking it there.

I am confused. I've heard/read that Daniel Norton was the one saying Cheetara was an anorexic ho.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:05 AM   #399
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Exactly. Which is why the flower makes no sense as a definign moment for the relationship between Tygra and Cheetara. I hold that it was just a poorly planned, written and executed plot hole.
Agree.

In BUD/S (SEALS) training, they push them to go beyond their limits. If you can't you fail.

They clerics were the best, Jaga was testing her.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #400
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Oh you meant in the flashback. I thought you were talking about the trials.


Honestly I'm not so sure about that. I mean Jaga's supposed to be a good guy and all. But if he wasn't going to let her die he would've brought her back in much sooner. She only survived because of the flower. Unless Jaga actually knew about the flower he left her out too long.

Again gotta disagree with you. being that he was testing her payience, it makes sense that he left her out for so long.....to test her patience.

Leaving her out for a day and then saying "Okay, long enough. C'mon in for tea and crackers" is just a moronic way to test patience.
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