Thundercats Ep 13 - Between Brothers Discussion

AdamofEternia · 12-31-2011, 12:52 AM

what was the results of the survey with the two questions you had us participate in? cmangund

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 01:39 AM

Here are the results so far out of 60 replies I got for fans that are “Ok with either pairings”:

60%: Criticized heavily on the 180 Shifts, saying it as “nuts”, but intrigued to see where it will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle.
30%: Most of them criticized the 180 Shifts but not as heavily as the 60% response above. Most of them prefer the Lion-O/Cheetara pairing as it was being properly developed and not out of the blue and still hoping it to happen.
10%: It’s some kind of plot twist that the writers were pulling on the viewers, interested to see where they will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle.

When I have more results I will post it here

still waiting for replies.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

what was the results of the survey with the two questions you had us participate in? cmangund

So far, most of them did not see the triangle "ending soon". I will post more of the details later, after I got more replies.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Here are the results so far out of 60 replies I got for fans that are “Ok with either pairings”:

60%: Criticized heavily on the 180 Shifts, saying it as “nuts”, but intrigued to see where it will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle.
30%: Most of them criticized the 180 Shifts but not as heavily as the 60% response above. Most of them prefer the Lion-O/Cheetara pairing as it was being properly developed and not out of the blue and still hoping it to happen.
10%: It’s some kind of plot twist that the writers were pulling on the viewers, interested to see where they will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle.

When I have more results I will post it here

still waiting for replies.

Interesting, sounds like most people so far think that ending last episode was ridiculous too.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Interesting, sounds like most people so far think that ending last episode was ridiculous too.

Yeah and these came from those that are mostly okay with either pairings. For the Hardcore Lion-O/Cheetara fans so far mostly were angry saying "To Hell with this", I will post it later after I got more.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 12:31 PM

Yeah I think even the people who want the Tygra/Cheetara pairing agree that it wasn't handled very well. Tygra and Cheetara should've had more scenes together. Or at the very least the flashback should've happened much earlier in the season so that it didn't seem like it was there ONLY as a plot device to facilitate the pairing.

AdamofEternia · 12-31-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Yeah I think even the people who want the Tygra/Cheetara pairing agree that it wasn't handled very well. Tygra and Cheetara should've had more scenes together. Or at the very least the flashback should've happened much earlier in the season so that it didn't seem like it was there ONLY as a plot device to facilitate the pairing.

i agree, they should have had more tygra/cheetara interactions to show some a whole lot more connection between them. the way i see it now, cheetara choosing tygra is also another plot device to drag out the crappy sibling rivalry. i thought it was a terrible way to end the season and as far as im concerned, the brothers have not resolved their issues with each other. when tygra made that statement about not betraying his brother then and not now, to me just meant he is never gonna betray him. it's still not gonna stop tygra from acting they way he does towards liono.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

i agree, they should have had more tygra/cheetara interactions to show some a whole lot more connection between them. the way i see it now, cheetara choosing tygra is also another plot device to drag out the crappy sibling rivalry. i thought it was a terrible way to end the season and as far as im concerned, the brothers have not resolved their issues with each other. when tygra made that statement about not betraying his brother then and not now, to me just meant he is never gonna betray him. it's still not gonna stop tygra from acting they way he does towards liono.

Because it is a plot device, almost everything that writers do in a story will be almost always a plot device no matter how small or big, they have 52 episodes and EP13 was not the real Season 1 ending as originally EP26 is the end of season1 (since WB practically finished 26 episodes before the sudden changes) before CN messed it up, still a long way to go. That's how writers think, being friends with writers for a long time have given me some insights on how they think. But that also won't stop them to pull some surprises in EP14 like the Cheetara SoO Connection Chip theory, considering the pattern and interviews. All the facts and data points to Lion-O/Cheetara as their master plan.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Because it is a plot device, almost everything that writers do in a story will be almost always a plot device no matter how small or big, they have 52 episodes and EP13 was not the real Season 1 ending as originally EP26 is the end of season1 (since WB practically finished 26 episodes before the sudden changes) before CN messed it up, still a long way to go. That's how writers think, being friends with writers for a long time have given me some insights on how they think. But that also won't stop them to pull some surprises in EP14 like the Cheetara SoO Connection Chip theory, considering the pattern and interviews. All the facts and data points to Lion-O/Cheetara as their master plan.

CN didn't think it through too well by going on break with that episode, but then they can't seem to get Young Justice to air through a whole season either.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

CN didn't think it through too well by going on break with that episode, but then they can't seem to get Young Justice to air through a whole season either.

Yeah CN's decisions almost always questionable by logic's point of view. It's like they are only viewing episodes by numbers not content should be both at least.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 05:06 PM

from what Ive read in interviews the original "season" was 26 episodes, but they were written as 13 episode arcs. from what I understand CN splits all their seasons like this, and it's not exclusive to Thundercats.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:10 PM

The original plans were 13 story arcs of getting the stones mainly, 26 Episodes Season 1, that's true. But the season 1 finale was Ep26 not EP13. So the Real Big Moments are in EP26.

CN indeed did the splitting for others too and not exclusive for Tcats. Which is nuts.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 05:16 PM

CN's handling of their shows is ridiculously bad. I have to wonder if their ratings ever suffer because of it.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

CN's handling of their shows is ridiculously bad. I have to wonder if their ratings ever suffer because of it.

Well so far from my little survey, 15% of the Lion-O/Cheetara fans already confirmed dropping the show, the rest were on the verge of dropping the show like most of us here. So the crew loosing fans are definitely will be one of the results of their actions, both CN and WB.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Because it is a plot device, almost everything that writers do in a story will be almost always a plot device no matter how small or big, they have 52 episodes and EP13 was not the real Season 1 ending as originally EP26 is the end of season1 (since WB practically finished 26 episodes before the sudden changes) before CN messed it up, still a long way to go. That's how writers think, being friends with writers for a long time have given me some insights on how they think. But that also won't stop them to pull some surprises in EP14 like the Cheetara SoO Connection Chip theory, considering the pattern and interviews. All the facts and data points to Lion-O/Cheetara as their master plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Well so far from my little survey, 15% of the Lion-O/Cheetara fans already confirmed dropping the show, the rest were on the verge of dropping the show like most of us here.

Yikes! I hope CN's paying attention to how people are reacting to the mess they've made.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yikes! I hope CN's paying attention to how people are reacting to the mess they've made.

Me and L08e16o will definitely be one of those fans dropping the show if they will not making it proper COUNT ON IT! we are giving them 3 more strikes, that's it.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yikes! I hope CN's paying attention to how people are reacting to the mess they've made.

It's just stupid to gamble this early whether or not it's CN faults of chopping it, Especially it's Lion-O the main character not Tygra. Pissing off most of true Lion-O fans are not a good decision.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Me and L08e16o will definitely be one of those fans dropping the show if they will not making it proper COUNT ON IT! we are giving them 3 more strikes, that's it.

I'll likely drop the show too, if they keep up with this kind of foolishness.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I'll likely drop the show too, if they keep up with this kind of foolishness.

Yeah loosing a lot of fans will never be a good idea, no matter how you are going to put it. If they are going to keep this up, might as well make a new show starring Tygra.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

It's just stupid to gamble this early whether or not it's CN faults of chopping it, Especially it's Lion-O the main character not Tygra. Pissing off most of true Lion-O fans are not a good decision.

Messing over Lion-o was a dumb move on their part that's for sure. Putting T/C together over L/C, would be like putting Teela from Masters of the universe with RAM-Man, rather than He-man.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Messing over Lion-o was a dumb move on their part that's for sure. Putting T/C together over L/C, would be like putting Teela from Masters of the universe with RAM-Man, rather than He-man.

Agreed 100%.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 05:47 PM

If they wanted to do it like this they should just make 2 different seperate shows(WB have full rights control on the Tcats characters anyways), one starring Lion-O another one starring Tygra. Like what Marvel did with Spider-man Ultimate universe. 2 Spider-mans different universe and story, up to us to pick which Spider-man universe that really suits our liking.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 05:55 PM

guys it's a team show. I mean sure Lion-O is the main cat and the biggest focus, but the show is about all the characters, not just him.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yikes! I hope CN's paying attention to how people are reacting to the mess they've made.

In the end if they are going to keep this up they will only have mostly Tygra fans watching the show, and that's not good for business I believe. Much-much less money returns, or even loosing money.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 06:24 PM

I could probably have dealt with T/C(
though I'm clearly a L/C fan), if the writers hadn't spent most of the season building L/C. The last episode came across as a punch in the gut, based on what we had been shown throughout most of the season. If the writers wanted T/C, they should have been focusing on building them up throughout the season, instead of pulling a bait and switch.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I could probably have dealt with T/C(
though I'm clearly a L/C fan), if the writers hadn't spent most of the season building L/C. The last episode came across as a punch in the gut, based on what we had been shown throughout most of the season. If the writers wanted T/C, they should have been focusing on building them up throughout the season, instead of pulling a bait and switch.

Yeah that's my problem too. Unless most of our discussions and my analysis were correct, that they are doing something behind the scenes, i.e. the bigger picture, not the smaller picture.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 06:30 PM

The writers teased us (much like it looked like Cheetara teased Lion-o) for the better part of 11 episodes, so its no wonder so many viewers or former viewers now, are angry.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The writers teased us (much like it looked like Cheetara teased Lion-o) for the better part of 11 episodes, so its no wonder so many viewers or former viewers now, are angry.

And It's not in Cheetara's character to do something like that, leading Lion-O on. Especially now after I got deep into her character with the help of my writer friends. It's just too off the chart, unless the truth is like what I said before.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

And It's not in Cheetara's character to do something like that, leading Lion-O on. Especially now after I got deep into her character with the help of my writer friends.

Yeah it wouldn't make sense for Cheetara to lead Lion-o on, unless the writers really went nuts and wanted to turn her into a villain. So there has to be more to it than what that last episode showed us.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yeah it wouldn't make sense for Cheetara to lead Lion-o on, unless the writers really went nuts and wanted to turn her into a villain. So there has to be more to it than what that last episode showed us.

Yeah darn it, making her a villain will not do, as it seems in the new toys, no cheetara as a villain character. So at least some of our discussions and theories should hit the spot. I will keep on trying to see what more angle I can "attack" the issue with.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 06:41 PM

I still genuinely think she wasn't trying to lead him on. That doesn't mean the crew didn't want us to think she was, but that she, herself, wasn't trying to do it.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

I still genuinely think she wasn't trying to lead him on. That doesn't mean the crew didn't want us to think she was, but that she, herself, wasn't trying to do it.

I think she did. The actress clearly said they are evolving.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 06:44 PM

evolving ≠ leading someone on

evolve = To develop or achieve gradually

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

evolving ≠ leading someone on

Evolving relationship from cheetara's voice actress seems to me she is interested in lion-o. She wasn't leading him on.

Leading to romance.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yeah it wouldn't make sense for Cheetara to lead Lion-o on, unless the writers really went nuts and wanted to turn her into a villain. So there has to be more to it than what that last episode showed us.

She is into lion-o.

This wasn't a seson ender, so this was a normal episode.

Cheetara is not a villian. We were stuck with vague dialogue.

E14 is suppose to clear up why cheetara follows lion-o around.

We saw tyrga's flashback of his connection to cheetara, now we will see cheetara's connection to lion-o.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Here are the results so far out of 60 replies I got for fans that are “Ok with either pairings”:

60%: Criticized heavily on the 180 Shifts, saying it as “nuts”, but intrigued to see where it will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle.
30%: Most of them criticized the 180 Shifts but not as heavily as the 60% response above. Most of them prefer the Lion-O/Cheetara pairing as it was being properly developed and not out of the blue and still hoping it to happen.
10%: It’s some kind of plot twist that the writers were pulling on the viewers, interested to see where they will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle.

When I have more results I will post it here

still waiting for replies.

Thanks.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Me and L08e16o will definitely be one of those fans dropping the show if they will not making it proper COUNT ON IT! we are giving them 3 more strikes, that's it.

Agreed.

I like well written stories. L/C was being developed perfectly, but E13 was so off base.

I believe if they wanted T/C, they would have developed it better.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

We were stuck with vague dialogue.

E14 is suppose to clear up why cheetara follows lion-o around.

We saw tyrga's flashback of his connection to cheetara, now we will see cheetara's connection to lion-o.

Agreed. She only said, I did choose, years ago. So if later on, IF she said to Lion-O that she did choose Tygra the first time, then after joining the clerics and Jaga has forseen the deep connections she must have with the chosen bearer(Cheetara SoO Theory: http://www.thundercats.ws/thundercat...ssion-8424/37/) to have the SoO to work to its full potential and was assigned by Jaga to choose the second time, and that second time was Lion-O. She put duty above feelings she have for both brothers. The Lion-O/Cheetara thing can develop again from there.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

If they wanted to do it like this they should just make 2 different seperate shows(WB have full rights control on the Tcats characters anyways), one starring Lion-O another one starring Tygra. Like what Marvel did with Spider-man Ultimate universe. 2 Spider-mans different universe and story, up to us to pick which Spider-man universe that really suits our liking.

Just keep in mind it is a Classic hero's journey.

Classic hero's get the girl.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Just keep in mind it is a Classic hero's journey.

Classic hero's get the girl.

Thanks,

sometimes it's just not going too well in my mind.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Agreed. She only said, I did choose, years ago. So if later on, IF she said to Lion-O that she did choose Tygra the first time, then after joining the clerics and Jaga has forseen the deep connections she must have with the chosen bearer(Cheetara SoO Theory: http://www.thundercats.ws/thundercat...ssion-8424/37/) to have the SoO to work to its full potential and was assigned by Jaga to choose the second time, and that second time was Lion-O. She put duty above feelings she have for both brothers.

If E14 continued from E13, she could say after the kiss, I choice lion-o. Then they can have the flash back of L/C.

I think in the end, cheetara will always be by his side.

She is connected to lion-o in some way. I think she is the guardian of the SoO.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 07:04 PM

Cheetara is a good character.

She would not hurt anyone. Both her and lion-o are good cats. I don't think she would ever be a villian.

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 07:05 PM

CN's splitting the season has made a serious mess of things. This whole thing could've and likely would've, been resolved a month ago, if the show were being aired properly.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Evolving relationship from cheetara's voice actress seems to me she is interested in lion-o.

Leading to romance.

Those interviews were before the first episode even aired. She was being purposefully vague as to not give away spoilers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Agreed. She only said, I did choose, years ago. .

She said she chose, related a story about something Tygra did for her, wrapped her arms around him, and then they kissed.

If she was saying she chose Lion-O, don't you think she would've at least mentioned Lion-O's name instead of telling a story that didn't have Lion-O in it?

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Thanks,

sometimes it's just not going too well in my mind.

Like you said, 13 was a normal episode, not a ender.

To many clues point to L/C. It goes with the theme that the crew is making. If that is the real cheetara, I think the crew wanted T/C deal with the one momment in the past. This would allow L/C develop more without tygra being jealous. He can go after Pumyra.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Cheetara is a good character.

She would not hurt anyone. Both her and lion-o are good cats. I don't think she would ever be a villian.

Yeah by doing that "seduction" thing with Lion-O and then go for another cat, especially that other cat is his own brother, that she knows the "Big feud" they have with each other, will definetly make her a villain, So that can't be true.

L08e16o · 12-31-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Those interviews were before the first episode even aired. She was being purposefully vague as to not give away spoilers.

She said it keeps evolving and it is a great story line. That is a lot of a spoiler without giving up the spoiler.

This shows about lion-o, the writer wanted a classic hero (singular) journey. This is about lion-o, not tygra.

cmangund · 12-31-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

She said it keeps evolving and it is a great story line. That is a lot of a spoiler without giving up the spoiler.

This shows about lion-o, the writer wanted a classic hero (singular) journey. This is about lion-o, not tygra.

And the other interviews where Jelenic said" we dont’t give a definitive answer of her following Lion-O around until I think EP 14…”
- Specific on Lion-O/Cheetara thing “ If you invest in the show, with each episode you’ll get more out of it” and the "We wanted to make a classic hero's joerney"

were after A couple episodes have aired. the interview date was Friday, September 9, 2011 at 1:15 pm to be exact.

Balgus82 · 12-31-2011, 07:15 PM

and since we're quoting Emmanuelle Chiqui interviews:

"I think Lion-O has a little crush on Cheetara. He gets a little devastated later."

MEGAVIDEO - I'm watching it

stormbringer · 12-31-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

And It's not in Cheetara's character to do something like that, leading Lion-O on. Especially now after I got deep into her character with the help of my writer friends. It's just too off the chart, unless the truth is like what I said before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

And the other interviews where Jelenic said" we dont’t give a definitive answer of her following Lion-O around until I think EP 14…”
- Specific on Lion-O/Cheetara thing “ If you invest in the show, with each episode you’ll get more out of it” and the "We wanted to make a classic hero's joerney"

were after A couple episodes have aired.

Well if investment in the show each episode gets us more out of it, then there's no way their going with T/C, that was completely out of the blue.

12-31-2011, 01:39 AM	#1902
cmangund Hardcore Lion-O + L/C Fan Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: In the timeline where L/C already happened Posts: 1,924	Here are the results so far out of 60 replies I got for fans that are “Ok with either pairings”: 60%: Criticized heavily on the 180 Shifts, saying it as “nuts”, but intrigued to see where it will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle. 30%: Most of them criticized the 180 Shifts but not as heavily as the 60% response above. Most of them prefer the Lion-O/Cheetara pairing as it was being properly developed and not out of the blue and still hoping it to happen. 10%: It’s some kind of plot twist that the writers were pulling on the viewers, interested to see where they will go next with both possible pairings and the triangle. When I have more results I will post it here still waiting for replies. Last edited by cmangund; 12-31-2011 at 02:07 AM..

12-31-2011, 01:56 AM	#1903
cmangund Hardcore Lion-O + L/C Fan Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: In the timeline where L/C already happened Posts: 1,924	Quote: Originally Posted by AdamofEternia what was the results of the survey with the two questions you had us participate in? cmangund So far, most of them did not see the triangle "ending soon". I will post more of the details later, after I got more replies. Last edited by cmangund; 12-31-2011 at 01:59 AM..

12-31-2011, 03:36 PM	#1907
AdamofEternia Thunder Kitty Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 136	Quote: Originally Posted by Balgus82 Yeah I think even the people who want the Tygra/Cheetara pairing agree that it wasn't handled very well. Tygra and Cheetara should've had more scenes together. Or at the very least the flashback should've happened much earlier in the season so that it didn't seem like it was there ONLY as a plot device to facilitate the pairing. i agree, they should have had more tygra/cheetara interactions to show some a whole lot more connection between them. the way i see it now, cheetara choosing tygra is also another plot device to drag out the crappy sibling rivalry. i thought it was a terrible way to end the season and as far as im concerned, the brothers have not resolved their issues with each other. when tygra made that statement about not betraying his brother then and not now, to me just meant he is never gonna betray him. it's still not gonna stop tygra from acting they way he does towards liono. Last edited by AdamofEternia; 12-31-2011 at 03:38 PM..

12-31-2011, 04:24 PM	#1908
cmangund Hardcore Lion-O + L/C Fan Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: In the timeline where L/C already happened Posts: 1,924	Quote: Originally Posted by AdamofEternia i agree, they should have had more tygra/cheetara interactions to show some a whole lot more connection between them. the way i see it now, cheetara choosing tygra is also another plot device to drag out the crappy sibling rivalry. i thought it was a terrible way to end the season and as far as im concerned, the brothers have not resolved their issues with each other. when tygra made that statement about not betraying his brother then and not now, to me just meant he is never gonna betray him. it's still not gonna stop tygra from acting they way he does towards liono. Because it is a plot device, almost everything that writers do in a story will be almost always a plot device no matter how small or big, they have 52 episodes and EP13 was not the real Season 1 ending as originally EP26 is the end of season1 (since WB practically finished 26 episodes before the sudden changes) before CN messed it up, still a long way to go. That's how writers think, being friends with writers for a long time have given me some insights on how they think. But that also won't stop them to pull some surprises in EP14 like the Cheetara SoO Connection Chip theory, considering the pattern and interviews. All the facts and data points to Lion-O/Cheetara as their master plan. Last edited by cmangund; 12-31-2011 at 04:38 PM..

12-31-2011, 04:57 PM	#1910
cmangund Hardcore Lion-O + L/C Fan Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: In the timeline where L/C already happened Posts: 1,924	Quote: Originally Posted by stormbringer CN didn't think it through too well by going on break with that episode, but then they can't seem to get Young Justice to air through a whole season either. Yeah CN's decisions almost always questionable by logic's point of view. It's like they are only viewing episodes by numbers not content should be both at least. Last edited by cmangund; 12-31-2011 at 05:03 PM..