Thundercats Episode 17 Native Son Discussion Thread

[Joe Moore]

Use this thread to talk about Thundercats Episode 17: Native Son. It airs Saturday April 14th at 9:30 AM EST on Cartoon Network.

[Eclipse]

I just saw the previews. I not only lost a bet (and such a sore loser that I am), it was nothing like we (I) expected. As for Lion-O's mother... I'm not a fan right now. Nope.

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

I just saw the previews. I not only lost a bet (and such a sore loser that I am), it was nothing like we (I) expected. As for Lion-O's mother... I'm not a fan right now. Nope.

Why are you not a fan? Because she didn't call him her little prince one time? It's not like she doesn't love him, and she called him darling, which is just as sweet. Besides, with her newly pregnant, Tygra wouldn't be the Crown Prince anymore, like they all probably planned. She's just being realistic.

[Ravenxl7]

Definitely looking forward to this episode. Tygra is slowly becoming my favorite character from this new series, and it's nice to see an episode focus on him and his back story. Should be interesting to see where they go with it.

Also, it's REALLY nice to finally see the Queen. She's pretty much exactly what I thought she would be like. Most especially with her being the one that decided to take Tygra in.

[CreepySariFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

Why are you not a fan? Because she didn't call him her little prince one time? It's not like she doesn't love him, and she called him darling, which is just as sweet. Besides, with her newly pregnant, Tygra wouldn't be the Crown Prince anymore, like they all probably planned. She's just being realistic.

Maybe Eclipse doesn't like MILFs?

[Balgus82]

now I have to wonder....where is Tygra's mom?

[stormbringer]

So the tiger clan made a Faustian bargain.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

now I have to wonder....where is Tygra's mom?

Good question. I wonder if she died in childbirth too, or was she killed for not willing to sacrifice her son?

[Balgus82]

LOVED that episode. Only two things I didn't like.
1. No mention of Tygra's mom.
2. No mention of why Lion-O and Tygra were off on their own (unless I missed it).

[L08e16o]

Awesome episode!!!

This shows you again, the writers don't have enough time to fit everything in.

Where was the TCat that we would know?

It 952 and I wanted more.

Hated to see them all die, but I like how lion-o said he will always have him. Tygra heart melted.

I think tygra will be different, he has defeated the pride in his life.

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

LOVED that episode. Only two things I didn't like.
1. No mention of Tygra's mom.
2. No mention of why Lion-O and Tygra were off on their own (unless I missed it).

Yeah, they were scouting a short-cut through the mountains.

Also really interesting the pride thing was hereditary.

If Humility was all the Tygra needed to learn, he passed his trial. Now where's his prize.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Awesome episode!!!

This shows you again, the writers don't have enough time to fit everything in.

Where was the TCat that we would know?

It 952 and I wanted more.

Hated to see them all die, but I like how lion-o said he will always have him. Tygra heart melted.

I think tygra will be different, he has defeated the pride in his life.

This episode should have been a movie.

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Awesome episode!!!

This shows you again, the writers don't have enough time to fit everything in.

Where was the TCat that we would know?

It 952 and I wanted more.

Hated to see them all die, but I like how lion-o said he will always have him. Tygra heart melted.

I think tygra will be different, he has defeated the pride in his life.

Clearly Tygra the dumb fool forgot he was hitting it up with a certain hot tail.

[SirSapphire]

I know this is a Tygra episode, but Lion-O came off great here. It looks like his lessons have finally stuck and he's on the road to becoming a great king.

[SirSapphire]

One thing I can't help wondering, Were the Tigers truly treated unfairly by the other cats or were they so blinded by their own pride they refused to work with anyone else? It would be interesting to see how that played out.

[fuukonomiko]

I normally don't post on forums but after today's episode, I have this to say....TO ALL THE TYGRA HATERS/BASHERS out there....



I'd make a video out of it but I don't know how, snaps.

And it's now all about the lyrics...lol. Just the chorus.

EAT MY TIGER DIRT. And I mean that in the nicest way diabolically possible.

[hollowdheart]

I didn't get to watch the episode, but did anyone's negative opinion of Lion-o's mom change? Cause i've seen a lot of bashing her for not calling him prince and that's pissing me off.

[Ravenxl7]

Definitely a great episode. I so called it with the tiger clan and the bat-things being the same. Though that part of the story turned out a little different than I was expecting.

Did anybody catch the queen's name? I thought I heard Claudus say something, but couldn't really tell what he had said. For some reason I thought he called her Wyoming...

Speaking of which, I also called it back when I said that she would have most likely died giving birth to Lion-O. Though part of me was hoping I was wrong about that.

The whole thing with the tiger clan's background was interesting. Part of me finds it curious that they knew that their ancestors once worked for Mumm-Ra, when that info seemed to have been lost on the cats in Thundera.

Was nice to see the ancient spirits of evil at work, and how they sort of fit into things. Hopefully their involvement is something the show expands on in future episodes.

Tygra is still on his way to becoming my favorite character. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him use that new whip of his, and whether or not we'll get it in toy-form.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko

I normally don't post on forums but after today's episode, I have this to say....TO ALL THE TYGRA HATERS/BASHERS out there....



I'd make a video out of it but I don't know how, snaps.

And it's now all about the lyrics...lol. Just the chorus.

EAT MY TIGER DIRT. And I mean that in the nicest way diabolically possible.

Could this be the same fuukonomiko who also happens to be one of my favorite TC:reboot writers ? Great song by the way.

I have not heard anything about the "prince" comment, so I will gladly eat my words if it come to it. No hot sauce included.

[fuukonomiko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Could this be the same fuukonomiko who also happens to be one of my favorite TC:2009 writers ? Great song by the way.

I have not heard anything about the "prince" comment, so I will gladly eat my words if it come to it. No hot sauce included.

I think so God forbid there's more than one of me out there, Why thank you, I am flattered

I think the Queen was sending the wrong message to Tygra out there. It's like she's saying, well, I'm having a new baby so you won't be MY prince anymore. And maybe she meant well trying to give him a heads up that he may need to share Mommy's love, but you do not tell a three or four year old that he won't be your little prince anymore. That's just...wrong. My two cents...not that it matters.

I wish they showed Tygra's Mommy too. Or they could have made this episode a two parter.

[Robear Coll]

Remember to tweet your support of the show at 9:30am if you are so inclined followed by the hashtag #Tygra

Let's see if we can get it trending!

[Singe]

It seems the writers played dumb on Tygra saying he was truly alone forgetting that he has his love Cheetara, unless this is some underlying hint that Cheetara and Tygra might not be as close as we thought.

[RazorclawX]

Seems like with a better picture the features of the Ancient Spirits of Evil are more clear. They are the Jackal, Lizard, Monkey, and Bird, left to right.

[RoftheHood]

anyone have a torrent of link????

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

It seems the writers played dumb on Tygra saying he was truly alone forgetting that he has his love Cheetara, unless this is some underlying hint that Cheetara and Tygra might not be as close as we thought.

Put it into perspective. His relationship with Cheetara is new, but he's lived his whole life feeling alone because he didn't really "fit in" his new family. No matter what, Cheetara or not, this is a loneliness Tygra will feel for the rest of his life.

This episode was amazing. Tygra was amazing, Lion-O was amazing, Javon(?) was amazing.

Oh Javon. You can tell he really loves Tygra and even after all of this time, he still wants to protect him. The difficult choice, to be a king or a father?
Also, I thought the you're never happy for me, figures you wouldn't be happy for me line was a reference to the love triangle.

[Balgus82]

Someone mentioned this on another forum and I thought it was an interesting thought. Remember in episode 13 when Tygra said "You took her!"? What if he was actually talking about their mother instead of Cheetara?

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Someone mentioned this on another forum and I thought it was an interesting thought. Remember in episode 13 when Tygra said "You took her!"? What if he was actually talking about their mother instead of Cheetara?

You know what, you could be right. Definitely something to think about.

[vantheman77]

Native Son focuses on Lion-O and Tygra and none of the other Thundercats appear. They encounter the Tiger Clan, led by Tygra's real father and we get the full origin of how Tygra was adopted by Claudus and Lion-O's mother and the circumstances that led to it. The reunion between Tygra and his real father started out with resentment to reconciliation and forgiveness. I had a feeling that the Tiger Clan were the evil creatures.

We also see the real source of Tygra's jealousy and resentment towards Lion-O since the day he was born. When they fought in Between Brothers, Tygra accused Lion-O that he took her he was really referring to Lion-O's mother and not Cheetara, even though it could have been either way.

Lion-O came across wiser since the trials and he's still mischievous when he threw a couple of snowballs at Tygra, whose character flaw is that he doesn't want to admit he's wrong. I was hoping they'd address Tygra's leadership from last episode. I agree that the writers are acting like Tygra is not in love with Cheetara, who could have appeared in this episode. Another good episode as the second season is shaping to be better than the first.

[fuukonomiko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

It seems the writers played dumb on Tygra saying he was truly alone forgetting that he has his love Cheetara, unless this is some underlying hint that Cheetara and Tygra might not be as close as we thought.

I suspect they've put enough stuff in there so they didn't bother to put Cheetara in the mix.

I agree that Tygra may have feelings of isolation for a long time, since its something that has been brewing since he was a kid. I wouldn't be surprised if he was ostracized even when he was a child because he was a tiger. Tigers weren't exactly welcome in Thunderan society because of their history. It's not something he could overcome in a short period of time.

Maybe the writers got sick of listening to everyone whining about the love triangle and axed it out,

[vantheman77]

Something else to point out - Tygra was closer to Claudus than Lion-O was, here Lion-O is closer to Tygra's real father than Tygra is. It's a reverse to Omens.

[xander88]

Great episode

[Shadowknight1]

I really enjoyed this episode. I liked seeing the Queen of Thundera, though I wish she'd have been named. Sad that she died giving birth to Lion-O, but I had a feeling that was the case, and the fact that they were having trouble conceiving when Tygra dropped in was the proverbial nail in the coffin.

And Tygra's got a new whip!

[Singe]

The mother calling Tygra Prince was more of a pet name than an actual title. Once pregnant, she realized it would have been in bad royal etiquette to call Tygra Prince anymore since Lion-O would be the official prince.

This was one of those defining episodes for the series. Now when we go back to watch Season 1, we'll have a different take on Tygra. Hard to believe that his genetics played a part in his behavior.

Now on to the real news, there was a Mumm-ra doll. The toy-line better release a Mumm-ra doll like the one in this episode.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

It seems the writers played dumb on Tygra saying he was truly alone forgetting that he has his love Cheetara, unless this is some underlying hint that Cheetara and Tygra might not be as close as we thought.

I not going to touch the cheetara part, but I think it means lion-o will always be there for him no matter what.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Someone mentioned this on another forum and I thought it was an interesting thought. Remember in episode 13 when Tygra said "You took her!"? What if he was actually talking about their mother instead of Cheetara?

Great point and I think you are right.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vantheman77

Native Son focuses on Lion-O and Tygra and none of the other Thundercats appear. They encounter the Tiger Clan, led by Tygra's real father and we get the full origin of how Tygra was adopted by Claudus and Lion-O's mother and the circumstances that led to it. The reunion between Tygra and his real father started out with resentment to reconciliation and forgiveness. I had a feeling that the Tiger Clan were the evil creatures.

We also see the real source of Tygra's jealousy and resentment towards Lion-O since the day he was born. When they fought in Between Brothers, Tygra accused Lion-O that he took her he was really referring to Lion-O's mother and not Cheetara, even though it could have been either way.

Lion-O came across wiser since the trials and he's still mischievous when he threw a couple of snowballs at Tygra, whose character flaw is that he doesn't want to admit he's wrong. I was hoping they'd address Tygra's leadership from last episode. I agree that the writers are acting like Tygra is not in love with Cheetara, who could have appeared in this episode. Another good episode as the second season is shaping to be better than the first.

We have the kittens up next.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

The mother calling Tygra Prince was more of a pet name than an actual title. Once pregnant, she realized it would have been in bad royal etiquette to call Tygra Prince anymore since Lion-O would be the official prince.

This was one of those defining episodes for the series. Now when we go back to watch Season 1, we'll have a different take on Tygra. Hard to believe that his genetics played a part in his behavior.

Now on to the real news, there was a Mumm-ra doll. The toy-line better release a Mumm-ra doll like the one in this episode.

Tygra was no longer the CROWN PRINCE, but he was still a prince. Even today, he is still a Prince of Thundera.

I hate how the behaviors of some of the cats are chalked up to genetics. I think it sends a really odd message. Though, pride is not always a bad thing.

I agree. I think most people will walk away from this episode understanding why Tygra is the way he is.

[L08e16o]

So, we saw tygra got a upgrade (whip).

Kit and Kat in the next episode and then cheetara. We haven't see their new toys.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

The mother calling Tygra Prince was more of a pet name than an actual title. Once pregnant, she realized it would have been in bad royal etiquette to call Tygra Prince anymore since Lion-O would be the official prince.

This was one of those defining episodes for the series. Now when we go back to watch Season 1, we'll have a different take on Tygra. Hard to believe that his genetics played a part in his behavior.

Now on to the real news, there was a Mumm-ra doll. The toy-line better release a Mumm-ra doll like the one in this episode.

Remember Tygra was king when lion-o died.

[Kregermeister]

Anyone else notice the bolo update is kind of a throwback to the 80's one? I dig it!

[Singe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Remember Tygra was king when lion-o died.

The point was the mother couldn't call Tygra her little prince anymore. This was the unique name she always called him until the point she realized she couldn't call Tygra that anymore.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

I hate how the behaviors of some of the cats are chalked up to genetics. I think it sends a really odd message. Though, pride is not always a bad thing.

I don't think it's nessecarily genetic, but more cultural. Tigers as a culture are proud and Tygra's pride stems from being the only one of his kind in a kingdom of other cats.
There is nothing wrong with pride as long as you don't let it blind you as Caspin and the other Tigers did.

[hollowdheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

I agree. I think most people will walk away from this episode understanding why Tygra is the way he is.

But why should we understand and think it's ok? The reason he acts like this is because Lion-o was born in the first place. He even said so himself. That the day Lion-o was born he "lost everything" and how his life was perfect before. Just because he gained a little brother and lost a mom doesn't give him an excuse to be a jerk and treat Lion-o like crap all the time. It's not Lion-o's fault, or the Queen's. Tygra made the choice to act the way he did. Adopted or not, he has a mind of his own and can use it. If people are using that excuse, then they're saying the times Tygra tried to kill Lion-o, and the countless times he made him feel horrible is justified because his mom died and he wasn't made Crown Prince? I call BS.

[SirSapphire]

Lion-O never took anything from Tygra, it was thrust upon him by law. The death of their mother is just cruel circumstance, and as bad as you feel for Tygra he never had to ask the question "Why don't I have a mother?"

Understanding his pain and condoning his behavior are two different things, and while I feel bad for all he has suffered he then spent the rest of his life taking out his frustrations on Lion-O, essentially blaming him for being born. It looks like things are getting better between them though, can't wait to see what the future holds for them.

[stac]

The episode was good, but not enough to start cheerleading for Team Tygra.

Yes, Tygra was a charming cub but a single episode isn’t enough to address the issues surrounding his character:

-Tygra doesn’t even mention Cheetara once. Not even when he mentions staying with the Tiger Clan. Are the writers attempting to downplay this triangle or does it not matter anymore?

-Tygra’s father did not know what the Ancient Spirits would demand from him when he asked for their help. What exactly did Tygra have to forgive his father for? Not killing him and instead sending him to Thundera where he had quite a good life and was raised by a loving mother and a father who favoured him?

-Tygra implied that Lion-O’s birth led to him losing his mother and his kingdom. Is he so selfish that he forgot that Lion-O never got to meet her? Tygra had three parents who loved him; Lion-O had only one who wasn’t even very nice until the end.

-Lion-O just gambled his soul in order to save the others and he is still rewarded with Tygra’s perpetual whining. How much more could he have possibly griped about losing “everything” he cares about or Lion-O “taking” everything away?

-Finally, why is finding a place where he could “belong” suddenly such an important issue for Tygra? The writers have never really focused on this before. On the contrary, it was Lion-O who never really ‘belonged’ in Thundera – Tygra did a much better job at that.

If it takes Lion-O, who can be brash and immature 16 episodes to learn his “lessons” then 1 episode should not suffice for Tygra who is way too self-centred and arrogant.

[SirSapphire]

So after this episode now I have a new theory about Pumyra: With Lion-O's mother dead he would need a nurse to look after him, what if Pumyra was the daughter of that nurse and the two of them were children together until they were separated by their respective educations (Lion-O started taking lessons with Panthro and Gune while Pumyra is apprenticed to an accomplished doctor) and they meet up years later in the Pit?

Given the show's love of backstory through flashback I'd think this is plausible.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan

Maybe Eclipse doesn't like MILFs?

Oh hon, how could I not like MILFs when I'm one myself?

I can't be a fan of that particular one not because of how she looks, but because from a mother's point of view that's not the right way to treat a child who is about to become an older sibling. As a parent, you feel like you're betraying your -so far- only child by bringing another into the family with who she/he will have to compete for your attention. And as such, what you do is reassure your kid that your love will not waiver.

Not suddenly change your pet name in a manner that can be construed to signify that he is less than he was before. I'm not going to say she did not love him anymore, but it sure looked like he was down one step in the ladder of her affections. In reality a mother shouldn't be able to choose one over another.

Before I read again that she meant he wasn't the crown prince anymore, she did not call him "my handsome little crown prince". We also know he was still going to be prince, since he is Prince Tygra to this day. She's their mother, she could have called him anything she pleased and could have even upgraded him to big prince with Lion-O inheriting the little prince pet name. She consciously made a decision there to take something from him, and as a mother I can't be a fan.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko

I normally don't post on forums but after today's episode, I have this to say.... (snip!)

Oh my goodness, hell must have frozen over, the Wind Child's Priestess is here!

Welcome!

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

-Tygra’s father did not know what the Ancient Spirits would demand from him when he asked for their help. What exactly did Tygra have to forgive his father for? Not killing him and instead sending him to Thundera where he had quite a good life and was raised by a loving mother and a father who favoured him?

His father couldn't have known he'd end up as a prince of Thundera or even IN Thundera. For all his father knew he could've landed in a tree and starved to death a week later. Just because he didn't kill him personally doesn't mean he didn't abandon him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

-Tygra implied that Lion-O’s birth led to him losing his mother and his kingdom. Is he so selfish that he forgot that Lion-O never got to meet her? Tygra had three parents who loved him; Lion-O had only one who wasn’t even very nice until the end.

Lets see...Tygra has lost 3 parents of whom he knew. Lion-O has really only lost one. You don't mourn someone you never met.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

-Lion-O just gambled his soul in order to save the others and he is still rewarded with Tygra’s perpetual whining. How much more could he have possibly griped about losing “everything” he cares about or Lion-O “taking” everything away?

Tygra wasn't blaming Lion-O in this episode. He was telling what happened and what he felt at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

-Finally, why is finding a place where he could “belong” suddenly such an important issue for Tygra? The writers have never really focused on this before. On the contrary, it was Lion-O who never really ‘belonged’ in Thundera – Tygra did a much better job at that.

Tygra was the only member of his clan in the whole kingdom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

If it takes Lion-O, who can be brash and immature 16 episodes to learn his “lessons” then 1 episode should not suffice for Tygra who is way too self-centred and arrogant.

Tygra has been learning lessons too, but Lion-O is the focus of the narrative, not Tygra. All his issues have not been solved in one episode.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

It seems the writers played dumb on Tygra saying he was truly alone forgetting that he has his love Cheetara, unless this is some underlying hint that Cheetara and Tygra might not be as close as we thought.

Another proof that the triangle is more of a "liability" rather than an "asset" to the story. They should just stick with "single ship" from the beginning L/C or T/C or flirtations with no real pairing, yet WB and Jelenic "must" do the "bad" triangle.

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.