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Old 11-29-2011, 04:40 PM   #201
stormbringer
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there are some interesting stories we could get from lion-o out on his own.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:44 PM   #202
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The main thing I agreed about his post is Lion O breaking off from the team for awhile. In the original series he often times went on Journeys by himself. The Thundercats for the most part is the back up. His character needs to standout more than what it has. More than that his strength needs to Standout from the rest.

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Old 11-29-2011, 05:17 PM   #203
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a storyline about lion-o going to explore third earth on his own has a lot of potential . he could become more mature as an individual and encounter new allies perhaps even pumyra and Ben-gali. I could see a story with mumm-ra capturing the other thundercats and holding them hostage in exchange for the sword , and a more badass lion-o along with Ben-gali and pumyra coming to the rescue.
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:36 PM   #204
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I want to respond to some the posts I've been reading. Some people have suggested the same ideas I have. I agree that Lion-O should break off from the group and try his own journey. Some people don't agree with that, saying will hurt the dynamic of the group as a whole. Which it would, however you need to look at the picture as a whole. To me the story of a hero should go like this: You start off on your own, making your own way into the world protecting and defending it, the way you think you should before you just go off starting in a group and trying to protect the world as a group. It brings problems if you do that! What I'm saying is that there is a difference between a group and a team; a group to me is individuals that come together to work for what they believe as individuals and a team to me is are individuals who work as a whole for a common goal rather than their individual goals. The team is more family orientated to me! You don't just come together from the start. Think about some of the great superhero teams like the Justice League, The X-Men, The Straw Hat Pirates and the different teams in Naruto. First they worked on their individual skills, grew as people and then as superheroes.

For example, Batman didn't start off in the Justice league. He started as a boy working to become a man and working on his skills to fight evil at a very young age, and from that he started honing his skills to work on his superhero identity to strike fear in the heart of evil! Then after he established his identity as a superhero, he went on his way fighting crime. He found some people in trouble; troubled kids that he helped raise, grooming them into sidekicks! And then when the world needed more than one person, a team formed of individuals that had also worked on their individual goals in life. Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc. came together and start protecting the world as a team, each caring for each other, watching each other's back and slowly became a family! They always had at least a stable core to hold the team together!

The same can be said for the X-Men; basically a group of individuals that the world had come to hate all coming together as a family to overcome the hate and protect the world. They’re kind of like the orphans of the world but no one really wanted them other than Charles Xavier! Many of them had to work on their individual processes of just being themselves. Case in point Wolverine! From what little we know of him he went from man to soldier to weapon to superhero to legend! I shan't go into great detail about him but those of you who know of him remember how he came from being at the very least a World War II soldier all the way to being a member of the New Avengers and The Avengers and the headmaster at the new Jean Grey Institute!

Now some of you might be saying how come I haven't brought up The Avengers. Well to me The Avengers were never really a good team. They are great group. If you think about their origins and how they came together they were never really a team, more just a group of strong individuals. The Invincible Ironman, the Incredible Hulk, The Mighty Thor, the Wasp, Antman, and later, Capt. America! Each one of them is one of the greatest superheroes, however almost from right when they came together, they fell apart! There were problems like as the Hulk not getting along with anyone! And since the beginning their parts kept changing, they were never really stable as a long-term team and I think part of their problem was their just getting along as a team. They got along great as a group working for the common good but not everyone believed in each other or wanted to be around each other. Then just recently the Avengers just “Disassembled” and the New Avengers were born!

The New Avengers in my eyes are the best example of what the Avengers could have been. If you follow their story from the day the New Avengers formed all way to the end of Siege you can see them grow as a family dynamic and a group of individuals who really care for each other. The core of the team remains the same throughout the series. The original New Avengers were Capt. America, Iron Man, the Sentry, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones a.k.a. Jewel, Spider-man, Spider Woman, and Wolverine. During the Civil War, each member of the team had to choose a side. Sure there were some differences but more or less the team remains whole. It was Capt. America, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Spiderman, Spider Woman, and Wolverine. It was when they were on the run from the law that the New Avengers went from a group to a team, each one of whom are on the run from the law, and each one only had each other to trust, to watch over each other. That’s what made them more a team than a group. Over the next few stories we saw the team grow closer to each other as during the events of the “Secret Invasion”, “Dark Reign”, and in “Siege”! They didn't just start as New Avengers, each character has their own origins and past that led them to become New Avengers. Each one has their own way of doing things and had to work from their past in order to become what they are today: The New Avengers!

And that's what I think Lion-O has to do. He has to first understand what it means to be a hero by going off into the world and trying to find his place in it; going from a teenager to man, a man to a hero, a hero to a legend, a legend to a King! We know very little about his back story, but what I have gathered is that he's been safely behind the walls of the kingdom training here and there. It sounds like he has a short attention span. Every so often he does go off on his own looking for new things such as technology, as we learned in the pilot episode. He is different from his father and brother in that he believes in kindness towards others than dominance over them. We also see in the pilot episode how he reacts to how the lizards are being treated and what he does after he finds out they were only going after food for their families! He is different than his brother and he understands what it takes to be a great leader and one day a king! He's head and shoulders above his brother in that regard. However, even from the pilot episode all the way to the latest episode we saw his combat skills are severely lacking compared to his brother. If I remember correctly, he has only won three fights on his own so far; one against the duelists, one against a slave trader, and one against the paper master. Most of the other fights that are more of a challenge he has lost or had someone else step in to help! In order for him to be a leader and someone for people to follow he has to start winning those fights on his own! If you just have the Thunder Kittens with him on his journey he would just have to protect and watch over them. In the current group dynamic that he finds himself he always has someone to protect him like Cheetara, Tygra, or Panthro, which is both good and bad. However, as recent events show it will hurt his pride to have Cheetara or Tygra saving him! And there's another reason that he should be alone right now and that is that vengeance and jealousy often lead to the “dark side”. As it stands right now if he stays in the group and he tries to be the leader that he should be quiet about the relationship that Cheetara and Tygra seem to have. After he was led on by Cheetara his feelings can turn to bitterness, anger, and resentment towards Tygra, and turn Lion-O’s “lion heart” into something dark. He could very easily lose the very qualities that we all love about him that will make him a great king one day!

There's another reason why I think he should be out on his own. Like I said before he's seemed to be in the kingdom all throughout his life and the way you learn about a new world is by going out in it on your own making mistakes and learning from them. If you had someone always pointing out what to do for you, you will never truly learn from your choices! Having the Thunder Kittens around will help him understand how to protect something precious. The other big cats can defend themselves easily enough, but if it was just him can he protect himself and protect others with no one there to back them up. These are just some the questions I have. Of course, but journey like this can't be done in one episode. I think it will be best to have an entire season and then at the very end have the two teams come together both showing how they grown both with and apart from each other!

I also read how some people have questioned if Lion-O leaves the group it might hurt the show. I don't think it will and here's why. You could create more stories about individual back stories and their character growth. If you went back and forth between one episode all about Lion-O team and then an episode on the dynamic of Tigre’s teams this could be a turning point in the relationship of Cheetara and Tygra if they really have one! Will she still like him if she sees what we see; the dark bitterness over his brother. Would you still want to be with him! Remember he didn't want to help the lizards when they were in trouble in prison. He thought they got what they deserved. It was Lion-O who intervened not Tygra! Can a relationship survive on just the one act of kindness of a flower? And what about Tygra? If we gave him the ability to use the Sword and the Shield and he has the girl is he truly happy? Is he really a better leader than his brother? If we put him in the spotlight does he shine brightly or fall flat on his face! And what about Panthro with losing both his arms and his quest for vengeance fulfilled? Where does it leave him? He needs to stay with the group! He is the only one that has been outside of the kingdom and knows about technology other than Lion-O! If he goes with Lion-O I think Tygra and Cheetara would be lost without him! Just think what dynamic storytelling can be done with them being separated! Cheetara worries about Lion-O and wonders if he is alright, then she gains the "sixth sense" ability and has dreams/visions of him. Do both Lion-O and Cheetara dream and are they real dreams or do they have a real connection? With the fact that Tygra has been given the right to lead does he make the right choice or the wrong choice? You can develop the story with the Thunder Kittens more; why do they want to go to "the lost city of El Dara" and we can learn through Lion-O what happened to their parents.

I read some people complaining about new characters such as Pumyra and Ben-Gali. I even suggested putting Demolisher on the team as a sword/combat master to Lion-O. There are rightful questions on where were Pumyra, and Ben-Gali during the fall of the thunder cats lair? Are they even truly thunder cats or are they clones to help Mumm-Ra destroy the thunder cats. Were they banished from the kingdom or offsprings of banished families or what? I think you would have a good storyline if you keep guessing all the way up to the end of the second season finale who are they? Where did they come from and what do they want? And I do agree that hopefully they will not do a flashback where Pumyra always liked Lion-O from afar that's just lazy and stupid writing. If they do something Pumyra and Lion-O I hope it's new and fresh when it happens. I remember very little from the original series and what I do remember are just flashes and I fill the blanks but while reading what's on the Wikipedia site I don't know if Pumyra/Lion-O is a good or bad relationship or if a Pumyra/Panthro would be better especially now he lost his hands! And if that's the case then either Lion-O must win Cheetara back with kindness, love, understanding, respect, or you have to create a new thunder cat or a different species female partner for Lion-O!

The last thing I will leave you for a reason for the group to split is the fact that in this world Lion-O must unite the races and in order for that to work you have to have equality across the board. Finding a way for his brother to use a sword and shield is a way to say he doesn't care about the blood line and that he wants the best person for the job to win! If he wants to have his own brother believe in him he needs to first find belief in himself. We don't know much about the past of this world all we do know are bits and pieces, such as when they first fell onto the third Earth a lot of Lion-O’s ancestors wanted to unite the races but envy of the power stones caused problems and thus it never happened. His ancestors were once the top power over the world but were overcome. He has to find a way to overcome this and a way to do so is to understand the world around him and to show that he doesn't care about royal ancestry or anything. He just wants best person to win the job and to able to have people believe in that person. If he thinks it's him he has to go out and earn it and not just rely on bloodlines and dominance!

Those are my feelings and thinking on it! Tell me your thoughts on the matter! Thanks for your time.
The cheetara sixth sense and connection is agreat point. If you look in the episode tower of omens when lion-o uses the sword of omens cheetara eyes are the only ones to glow the classic thundercat yellow before starts to run up the wall thats shows she has a much deeper connection to lion-o and the sword than the others. The lion-o tygra relationship remind me of the brother in the gaurdian owls movie. I think lion-o leaving the group might be bad because up until now we have only seen the lizard army led by slithe i would guess that in other parts of the land we will see the dogs led by jackal man the monkeys led by monkian the vultures led by vulture man the cats will be badly outnumbered and with out lion-o the of the team will be captured and he can't fight a whole army himself either. Aside from the elephant and maybe the tiger sharks the rest of the animal from the ship in the "legacy episode" are most likely gonna be the bad guys so we may see animals from third earth join the thundercats to fight possibly turmagar and the tuskans and the snow men of hook mountain "snowmeow was sited earlier " oh well only time will tell
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:16 PM   #205
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Thunderclaw,
You have made some valid points, but this is WHY Lion-O does NOT need to go out on his own. First of all, he is not supposed to be the hero...he's supposed to be the LORD of the Thundercats and how can he do that being alone? While he would learn how to depend on himself as well as learn to make better decisions, where will the trust between his people and their leader take place? In history, conquerors that have take power have had to learn to gain the trust and admiration of the people they are ruling to be a great leader. Anyone can be a exceptional warrior, but can't work in a team environment. The idea here is for him to be able to lead the others, to be able to gather others under him to finally defeat Mumm-ra...without the belief from his followers how can that be?
Being on his own would strengthen him as a solitary person, not build a great leader and this is what is needed here. In the original, Lion-O was constantly being taught, because of his true age and the fact that he was never truly shown how to lead. There was an episode that he went on his own...for the purpose to sharpen his senses and to trust in his own decisions. I believe that this will more than likely happen in future shows.
As far as this "triangle", I have to say that there is DEFINITELY a betrayal here. If Lion-O has believed up until this time that Cheetara had feelings for him, watching his brother kissing her AFTER learning that when they were younger he almost tried to kill him for being the "chosen one", there is NO WAY he would see it as anything else. I believe that this will serve as the catalyst for his up coming trials to finally earn the title of Lord of the Thundercats in more than just name.
Now, he will feel he has to more than prove himself...even as a small attempt to change Cheetara's mind.
Tygra, both, did him a service and a disservice. He has hurt him deeply, taking the one thing that was given to him without the fact that he was the next leader of the cats...Cheetara's affections. By doing that, he may have strengthed him in his quest to be the man his father always thought he would be, give him the belief in himself to lead without question. In that, he would have pushed Lion-O to be even better than himself.
Being hurt this way will detrimental for a while...the trust and affection he had for them had been tarnished and it will take a LONG time for them to gain it back.
Whethewr you like it or not, most rulers come by way of lineage and Lion-O in NOT the exception. Yes, we would LOVE to see him eran it, but it IS his by rights...regardless of anything else Tygra or anyone else may think.
Lion-o was never shown to have a realtionship...it has been hinted at in the comics, but never really established. Maybe this anime will change that...
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:34 PM   #206
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Wait, so this says that since Claudus was killed in the Pilot episodes, Thundera was destroyed in the Pilot episodes, Jaga was captured and tortured in the Pilot episodes, Lion-O was made King in the Pilot episodes, Lion-O was chosen by the Sword of Omens in the Pilot episode, that none of that is fact and should be disregarded? Ok.

But then we are suppose to look at the series as a whole....but the pilot is the series, infact it sets up the entire series....exactly how is this...?


There is alot of cherry picking going on here. Its obvious you are pretty much just not a fan of Tygra and therefore extorting his character flaws to try and justify your opinion. Which is fine, Tygra is certainly a character with issues but he is certainly not beyond forgiveness, is in no way a villan, and is very much entitled to both the sympathy and empathy of the audience. While I am not a big fan of him, this is exactly why I find his character very interesting.

Everyone has their opinion, which by definition can't be wrong, however it can still be very misguided by false facts, misrepresentations, and closed mindedness.


BTW. Very poor example to use comparing the value of lives. You kill 1 person to save 1000. So by your logic you would say that killing the 1 to save 1000 was wrong? You would kill 1000 people to save 1? I think you can easily see what is wrong with this picture and your train of thought. The 1 death may not be resolved in saving 1000, but the value of saving 1000 should not be lost on the one. I guess though if we wanted to have a clear conscience, 1001 people could die and then it'd be ok.

I am really not meaning to come across as picking on you. I have edited my post here to try and get rid of that vibe the best I could so I really don't mean for you to take offense. It just really seems to me that you are going above and beyond to try and make Tygra out to be the bad guy, and completely throwing rationality out the window while dismissing blatantly obvious character traits that say differently.
1.I said look at the series as a whole does that not include the pilot? My comment about the pilot was meant to mean exactly what u said stop cherry picking and rationalizing the things we have seen thus far but when its something u don't want to consider or believe(its called selective reasoning, basically making excuses) u say well in this ep or in the pilot he did this like it make up for something we have seen done beyond the pilot.2. In my opinion killing period is wrong but no matter the circumstance or situation u can never resolve urself of it.3.I have already clearly stated my feelings of how I don't have a favorite or dislike any of the characters.4. Let sumone with Tygras mentality kick you down a pit and leave you then let me know how that feels5.You really not a attentive person why would I be offended.6. Your just not understanding any thing I've said which is fine
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:44 PM   #207
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while I think it would be cool for lion-o to explore on his own for a while I don't see it happening. Lion-o is lord of the thundercats now and as such has a responsibility to his subjects. one of the problems lion-o.always had to deal with while in thundera was that most of the citizens thought he was unworthy to be their future king . lion-o is now faced with the choice to prove to himself and all others that he IS worthy, when no one else would have considered helping lizard prisoners, lion-o did and he was proven he made the right call when the same lizard he helped left he and tygra a key to their cell so they could escape . I believe the reason that lion-o can use sight beyond sight is because like Leo he can see other species as equals , making "sight beyond sight" not just literal but also a metaphor. only he can master the sword of omens, unite the other species , and lead them to defeat mummra .
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:51 PM   #208
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We must've had the same thought when watching that episode. When I saw her kiss Tygra I was like 'is that Mumm-Ra ' not only would that be shock value but also hystarical and probably be a little cruel. Kind of like Snarf trying to feed panthro. Funny, but poor panthro XD alas, how would Mumm-Ra know about the flower heart? I guess he really would be all powerful. I really want Mumm-Ra to start showing up more with the culdron and psyco babble. Guess we will know next episode.
In the Astral Plane Mumm-Ra was capable enough to multiply Tygra's thoughts. Lion-O said that too. Since the Astral Plane project our own thoughts, it must be easy for someone as powerful as Mumm-Ra to read minds in a snap. I have a feeling that it was Mumm-Ra who kissed Tygra. But if it's not, then I will lose all my respect I have for Cheetara.

When the series began, most people mentioned that, Cheetara is not like Arcee (of Transformers: Prime) and not held back on emotions. Guess the roles have changed now, eh?
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:55 PM   #209
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the thought of mummra kissing anyone is a truly disturbing thought.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:53 AM   #210
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Didn't Mumm-ra do something similar in the OS? And i've heard people say the writers wouldn't do that cause this is made in America and by men. I highly doubt any of the writers are homophobes. And CN has gotten away with a lot more contriversal things, even in the 80's and 90's. Ren and Stimpy anyone?

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Old 11-30-2011, 12:53 AM   #211
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I am now greatly humored by the IDEa of Mumm-Ra kissing Tygra. >:} its too funny.

I too would loose a lot of respect of cheetara.

Transformers reference, nice!
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:56 AM   #212
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Didn't Mumm-ra do something similar in the OS? And i've heard people say the writers wouldn't do that cause this is made in America and by men. I highly doubt any of the writers are homophobes.
Do I think they will place a homosexual character in the show, sadly no. But I agree, I don't believe the writers would be homophobic . It's such an old way of thinking and very ugly, so I hope not.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:15 AM   #213
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Do I think they will place a homosexual character in the show, sadly no. But I agree, I don't believe the writers would be homophobic . It's such an old way of thinking and very ugly, so I hope not.
Sadly, i can't either. I can see Mumm-ra doing it to freak everyone out and for the evulz though. And to try and steal one of the stones or lure Tygra away since his plan in the Astral Plane didn't work.

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Old 11-30-2011, 01:22 AM   #214
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yeah mumm-ra used to shapeshift all the time in the 80's show ,so mumm-ra could impersonate cheetara. poor tygra if that happened he would probably want to downing tons of catnip to get that image out of his mind
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:24 AM   #215
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I wonder how Cheetara and the others would react? I bet Lion-o would be just as freaked out.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:27 AM   #216
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if mumm-ra wanted to unbalance the thundercats there's no better way to do it.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:33 AM   #217
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Haha yeah, but I don't think it would be a way to get Tygra, poor cat would be scared. Not only did he think he got the girl, but to also find out it was a mummy. Yuck! He will need more then catnip. Maybe whatever the elephants are on?
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:36 AM   #218
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if mumm-ra wanted to unbalance the thundercats there's no better way to do it.
It would give him an upper hand since he's been losing a lot.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:40 AM   #219
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well if ever there was a time for the sword to warn lion-o of danger that would be the time.
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:37 AM   #220
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The protagonist(Lion-O) getting beaten in a 1vs.1 against his douchebag brother, then begging him for his life and then additionally loosing his love interest to him.....

Needless to say this is the first thundercats episode that i Hated. I mean Cheetara even kissed Lion-O on the cheak in the previous episode before he went into the astral plane.
...Very disapointed.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:15 AM   #221
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1.I said look at the series as a whole does that not include the pilot? My comment about the pilot was meant to mean exactly what u said stop cherry picking and rationalizing the things we have seen thus far but when its something u don't want to consider or believe(its called selective reasoning, basically making excuses) u say well in this ep or in the pilot he did this like it make up for something we have seen done beyond the pilot.2. In my opinion killing period is wrong but no matter the circumstance or situation u can never resolve urself of it.3.I have already clearly stated my feelings of how I don't have a favorite or dislike any of the characters.4. Let sumone with Tygras mentality kick you down a pit and leave you then let me know how that feels5.You really not a attentive person why would I be offended.6. Your just not understanding any thing I've said which is fine


1. See your own quote, for the second time.
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The pilot is the pilot look at the series as a whole so far with the info we have and make your statements. opinions ,judgements etc...
Pretty much what I said stands. You are the one cherry picking, to take examples of character behavior from across the pilot, individual episodes, and flashbacks we have seen IS looking at the series as a whole. Not only is it looking at the series as a whole, its looking at the character and his choices and actions as a whole. Then evaluating them as a whole. Weighing them against each other, because despite you not wanting to admit it, morality and good vs evil is very much a scale. Even the example you used of killing 1 person to save 1000 is a scale. That 1 life is not worth the lives of 1000. You are assigning value to something, therefore making it measurable against something else. That is a scale.

Then there is you, who seem to be determined only to look at the latest episode, at one particular 10 second flashback without any credit or mention of anything else regarding the character, what we know of him, or other events that have happened.

You are the definition of Selective Reasoning. Let me help you out as I don't think you have a full grasp on this concept. (The more scientifically correct term would be Confirmation Bias, but we will go with yours for sake of arguement)

Selective reasoning, or pseudoscience, relies on the use of particular facts, beliefs, and unconfirmed opinions to foster a false understanding of events and things. - Taken as a direct quote from The Decline of Reason? by Jerre H. Lipps. Which is available online as an article from The Fossil Record, at the University of California Museum of Paleontology.

I'd really like to put emphasis on this. It is exactly what you are doing, and exactly what I described you as doing in my first post to you. Want proof? Here is just one example. You clearly state...

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Let sumone with Tygras mentality kick you down a pit and leave you then let me know how that feels
You completely dismiss the whole dialogue and scene of him saying he was scared at first, immediately regretted it, and ran until he was clearly at the point of physical exhaustion to get help for Lion-O. He went straight to his father, told him Lion-O needed help quickly and that it was his fault.

I hate to have to even touch on the fact that Tygra did not kick him down into a pit, he kicked a log that broke and so he fell. He did leave, but to get help which cannot be denied....considering that Lion-O is still here present day and not at the bottom of a well. If you are trying to refer to present day, at no point did I see Tygra leave Lion-O in the well. He turned his back and stepped away after an adrenaline filled fight with his brother that Lion-O is just as much involved in. Not to mention, the both of them concluded and reasoned that this Spirit Realm was having an adverse affect on them, meaning it was amplifying their agressive tendencies. Someone behind the scenes controlling what was happening and they both overcame this manipulation, with Tygra jumping into the hole after Lion-O and saving him from falling. Selective Reasoning indeed.

I'd advise you not to just throw out terms to which you aren't clear on. Believe it or not, quite a few of us on here are properly educated. (And those of us that aren't still probably recognize the value of using reference material to self educate themselves on something before speaking, which in itself is very smart.)

2. Not going to find much disagreement here, killing is typically wrong and not the most preferred course of action. However the world is never just black and white and rarely is anything that simple especially in terms of morality. What I said still stands, you used a very poor example to convey an almost absent point. You sound exactly like someone who would sacrifice a thousand people just to save someone who is important to you, and only you. That is also a very clear indiciation of an attachment issue, maybe even bordering on being possessive.

3. What you state and what you show are two different things. Much like your "do as I say not as I do" mentallity in this arguement. Hypocrits are good at that.

4. Since you asked, I will tell you. EVERYONE has been, or has felt like they have been, betrayed or hurt. Why does this one thing run your entire arguement and take up your entire view? You say you have siblings; so you've never had an arguement or caused any type of jealous, anger, hurt, or sour feelings towards one of them? I know I have been both the cause and on the receiving end of such feelings. So it feels pretty bad at the time, but just as they say things heal with time. As soon as it happens, it hurts the most, emotions are high, there is the shock factor but soon you get control of yourself and give it some thought and guess what, you keep on being siblings/friends/family. Its called forgiveness and a little bit of understanding that goes a long way. Sounds to me like you don't let go, and hold grudges for life.

5. Ah yes, the real meat and potatoes of your arguement. Basically you don't have one. You haven't really responded directly to any comment, just beaten around the bush and thrown out a few misused terms and ideas. Next course of action, blame everyone else.

6. See number 5. Not the first time I have seen you post in this thread that someone isn't understanding you. Time to take a step back and look at why people aren't understanding you. Is it the fact that what you keep saying completely conflicts with what you do? Maybe the fact that your "feelings and opinion" are based solely on one event...while you tell us to look at the series and character as a whole. Refer back to your Selective Reasoning, which I might add, is very much not "basically making excuses". Maybe it is the poor communication skills that you have? Maybe you just can't convey your thoughts correctly? Who knows, because no one understands you and apparently you are fine with that.

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Old 11-30-2011, 09:15 AM   #222
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Well Thunderclaw in some point you are right your exaples were quiet good but thing of something if the writers did something like putting Lion-o alone then the show it wouldn't called Thundercats but lets say Lion-os journey for example. The show it's called Thundercats and we see the journey of a group of cats trying to won against an immortal being. So we need to see the hard work between different personalities that tries to work together, leave their problems and bitterness behind so they will achieve their goals.
As you see we need to see all of them to finally accept one another before it's to late and not separeted. Don't forget that they are all under Lion-os orders so they must be united even if now it's seems impossible.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:17 AM   #223
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We must've had the same thought when watching that episode. When I saw her kiss Tygra I was like 'is that Mumm-Ra ' not only would that be shock value but also hystarical and probably be a little cruel. Kind of like Snarf trying to feed panthro. Funny, but poor panthro XD alas, how would Mumm-Ra know about the flower heart? I guess he really would be all powerful. I really want Mumm-Ra to start showing up more with the culdron and psyco babble. Guess we will know next episode.
I'd give the writers a standing ovation if they went down this route, but I'd probably be too incapacitated to stand from all the laughing. Tygra's reaction would be worth all the gold in the world.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:57 AM   #224
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Excellent episode. I agree with everyone else's opinion on Lion-O's swordfighting skills seem to come and go. But maybe the drifter just taught him how to beat the swordfighter in a unique way... I dunno. It all comes down to what served the story I guess. It seems to be how the writers treat each episode.

As for Cheetara, maybe she had developed feelings for Lion-O too. But it also seemed like she was trying to strengthen Lion-O's belief in himself and can't help but be smoking hot while she does it... lol. In any case, just remember that Tygra was a man of the people before all this started and Lion-O chose to stay in doors and become a technology geek. Cheetara probably saw Tygra winning competitions and doing heroic things for the kingdom all that time before war broke out. So combine that with their history, I think it would make sense that she's been infatuated with Tygra all this time and since the Cartoon is Lion-O centric, we never really get to see that point of view.

I think it's time for them to discover the Amazon women so Lion-O can get over it.

That is a good point. I did think to myself perhaps she has feelings for both brothers but since she has known Tygra longer and more closer to him than Lion-O than it would make a lot more sense why she chose him. I guess I couldn't really understand it because Tygra has never been supportive of Lion-O he since the beginning of the season he has done nothing but go against his orders and secretly harbored a deep resentment towards his baby brother since they were just young children. However, when you see the memory with Cheetara and Tygra you see that he was not always like that.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:50 AM   #225
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That is a good point. I did think to myself perhaps she has feelings for both brothers but since she has known Tygra longer and more closer to him than Lion-O than it would make a lot more sense why she chose him. I guess I couldn't really understand it because Tygra has never been supportive of Lion-O he since the beginning of the season he has done nothing but go against his orders and secretly harbored a deep resentment towards his baby brother since they were just young children. However, when you see the memory with Cheetara and Tygra you see that he was not always like that.
But he was probably only like that around her cause he likes her. And every flashback/scene of Lion-o and Tygra together he's being mean or says something nice and takes it back.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:10 AM   #226
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1.I said look at the series as a whole does that not include the pilot? My comment about the pilot was meant to mean exactly what u said stop cherry picking and rationalizing the things we have seen thus far but when its something u don't want to consider or believe(its called selective reasoning, basically making excuses) u say well in this ep or in the pilot he did this like it make up for something we have seen done beyond the pilot.2. In my opinion killing period is wrong but no matter the circumstance or situation u can never resolve urself of it.3.I have already clearly stated my feelings of how I don't have a favorite or dislike any of the characters.4. Let sumone with Tygras mentality kick you down a pit and leave you then let me know how that feels5.You really not a attentive person why would I be offended.6. Your just not understanding any thing I've said which is fine
The way i see it tygra has got some serious issues that the shows dialogue clearly points out. In the astral plane those are tygra memories being revealed , look how he just tries to play if off by saying "we know what happened lets move on". As a kid he say to lion-0 " if something wre to happen to you no one would know". Even though he went to claudus i'm sure he didn't fully explain what happened hence lion-o saying "i always thought the log just broke but you broke it" which tygra doesn't deny. He even admits that he thought about leaving lion-o there but though he would get in trouble which to doesn't make sense because by his own words if something was to happen no one would know so would he get in trouble? Unless someone may have seen some what hapened from a distance and tygra ran of to tell the story his way. What would really be messed up is if tygra took lion-o there to intentionally do that. In the previous episode lion-o tells cheetara there is a darkness in tygra. Grune tells tygra he sees so much of himself in tygra. Grune had a darkness in him which is why i think mum-ra was able to contact him psychically, and the darkness in tygra is why mum-ra was able be in tygra head. The roles played in the legacy episode may have more impact on the so called love triangle and future character development but to me there isn't anything to really show that tygra can be trusted and that is actually good. I wouldn't be surprised if grune is actually tyrga father after all sabretooths are tigers only time will tell
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:55 AM   #227
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But he was probably only like that around her cause he likes her. And every flashback/scene of Lion-o and Tygra together he's being mean or says something nice and takes it back.
You're right. In the memories with Lion-O and Tygra you could see there had always been a tension between them even from the time they were kids. Tygra always believed because he was the elder brother he deserved to have the crown, and the fact that Lion-O got it in a sense angered him and caused him to have a dark resentment towards him to a point that he would try to rid himself of his brother so he claim the throne. Where as his memories with Cheetara he showed a much kinder side of himself because like you said, he liked her. So to see her so flirtatious with Lion-O and him obviously share the same emotions caused him to have even bigger issues with his brother.

Personally, I don't like Tygra very much and believe that Lion-O should be with Cheetara. Not because he is Lord of the Thundercats but because he is genuine. He doesn't show one side of himself to her and then act a different way to Tygra and the rest of the group, he words hard to be the proper King but that is hard when he feels like no one is on his side. Since the series started it seemed like the only ones that were on his side was Cheetara, WilyKit and Wilycat.Tygra has always been against him it seems, and Panthro was at first but came to eventually accept Lion-O as Lord of the Thundercats.
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:28 PM   #228
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Someone came up with a good possibility. Mumm-Ra can shapeshift into anyone as we saw in the series premiere when he impersonated Panthro. It's possible he could impersonate Cheetara when she's kissing Tygra.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:22 PM   #229
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Someone came up with a good possibility. Mumm-Ra can shapeshift into anyone as we saw in the series premiere when he impersonated Panthro. It's possible he could impersonate Cheetara when she's kissing Tygra.
Yeah, a lot of people keep saying he did that in the OS but he can't in the NS. Did they not watch the pilot?
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:42 PM   #230
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Yeah, a lot of people keep saying he did that in the OS but he can't in the NS. Did they not watch the pilot?
The problem is that they dont show us much about Mumm-Ra. The OS, he was totally bad ass. We've only seen him in like 3 episodes. :l he had a lot of stuff to him, like talking to the gods of evil. I saw the pilot, but just like Tygra, we've only seen puzzle pieces not the whole picture.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:03 PM   #231
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I wish they would reveal Mumm-Ras origin,did he come from "our" earth , another dimension or what?
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:07 PM   #232
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Someone came up with a good possibility. Mumm-Ra can shapeshift into anyone as we saw in the series premiere when he impersonated Panthro. It's possible he could impersonate Cheetara when she's kissing Tygra.
That's technically possible, but I doubt that was the case. Mumm-Ra would have had to know about that bit of their history, and I seriously doubt he did.

Personally I'm happy with the way things worked out. Tygra and Cheetara make a cute couple...so I don't think there should be anything to break that up. There'll be more female cats out there for Lion-O (we already know Pumyra is showing up at some point).
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:48 PM   #233
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That's technically possible, but I doubt that was the case. Mumm-Ra would have had to know about that bit of their history, and I seriously doubt he did.

Personally I'm happy with the way things worked out. Tygra and Cheetara make a cute couple...so I don't think there should be anything to break that up. There'll be more female cats out there for Lion-O (we already know Pumyra is showing up at some point).
It does seem that mum-ra can read minds because he was able to communicate with grune through thoughts and knew what grune desired. Tygra darkness as lion-o puts it is what mum-ra maybe have been able to use in the astral plane to get a glimpse of tygra thoughts making it possible that it was mum-ra tygra kissed but i don't think the writers are gonna go that way. i doubt tygra and cheetara will be together. I'm waiting to see pumyra bet she may already be paired with bengali
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:45 PM   #234
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It does seem that mum-ra can read minds because he was able to communicate with grune through thoughts and knew what grune desired. Tygra darkness as lion-o puts it is what mum-ra maybe have been able to use in the astral plane to get a glimpse of tygra thoughts making it possible that it was mum-ra tygra kissed but i don't think the writers are gonna go that way. i doubt tygra and cheetara will be together. I'm waiting to see pumyra bet she may already be paired with bengali
But she said she loved him and we know he loves her....and they made out.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:04 PM   #235
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Well the next episode airs this week right?
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:10 PM   #236
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Well the next episode airs this week right?
I think it's on a break until January.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:20 PM   #237
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I hope its not one of those Young Justice length stretches between episodes.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:32 PM   #238
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Oh that will suck, we will end up debating the whole episode. never knowing what will happen next. Darn you cartoon network! Yeah, the young justice had like a three month break. I was so upset. Atleast they are working on the next set of 26 episodes.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:40 PM   #239
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I think they've finished the other 13. And i'm not sure if i can get into this if they mess up the characterisation again.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:37 AM   #240
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Yeah, i agree. :l keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:08 AM   #241
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Lol wow the hype is building up indeed, if ever that is the real Cheetara making out with Tygra. Lion-O should just walk away like a boss and have the "so its like that bi*** I'mma find someone 10x hotter than you" mentality haha . Everything will be answered this week I hope, since apparently there's a 1 hour episode (episode 15 and 16) coming up before they break for the holidays so keep your fingers crossed
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:09 AM   #242
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Everything will be answered this week I hope, since apparently there's a 1 hour episode (episode 15 and 16) coming up before they break for the holidays so keep your fingers crossed
Untill near of 9 of december we don't know when the new episode is going to be aired let's hope the break won't take to long. Star Wars for example took 1 year break before season 4.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:14 AM   #243
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Her affection was not a distraction to Lion-o he has been completing all his tasks throughout the series while she was expressing it so I don't get ur point. Personal feelings are what drives the characters their interactions are meant to be personal and believeable.If what we have seen are her true feelings from ep1 to 13 and you are Lion-o how would you fell? If you are Tygra and witnessed what she was doing first hand how would you feel? Bring the characters into reality. If I was either of these characters I would be iffy about Cheetara, from my point of view yeah Tygra got the girl but its like a happy ending but her character is screwed up in the process it would have been better if it was fleshed out a bit then people might have been more accepting of the out come.Any motives as to why things were done on the characters part as of right now is just speculation
There's a glaring difference in the affection shown between liono and tygra. I think it was tempered as such to motivate liono, but not overtly expressed to Tygra until the mission was accomplished. This entire discussion is speculation, actually.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:48 PM   #244
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Untill near of 9 of december we don't know when the new episode is going to be aired let's hope the break won't take to long. Star Wars for example took 1 year break before season 4.
Yeah, and I believe young justice was 3/4 month break.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:03 AM   #245
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If the show goes on a Young Justice style break , there getting one nasty email.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:52 PM   #246
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I am still trying to figure what happen with Cheetara. That seemed so out of character for her to kiss Tygra. You would think she would approach Lion-o first due to him taking it harder than Tygra.

How did she know what was going on? The Elephants forget everything and they give little clues.

It would be great writing in that is Mummra. Mummra use to be so awesome in the OS, they could barely beat him. I think this would not imply Mummra is gay. He is trying to get the stones and what better way to divide brothers than a women (no offense to the ladies). Mummra has been nothing so far. They wipe the floor with the kingdom and they can't beat the group.

I don't understand how anyone can say Lion-o has everything. Tygra has everything, he has beat his brother in everything they do. Tygra had the fathers love and the peoples love. Lion-o has Tech, wow that is a lot. Lion-o has no kingdom too, he has to build it from nothing.

I thought Cheetara liked Lion-o because he was different, not like the old guard (Tygra). He was fair and just. Lion-o showed mercy.

This first arch should be called the adventures of Tygra. Lion-o has not learn anything, he only learns from painful situations. He has shown no growth in the series imo.

I think any other cat that comes in and is a love interest for Lion-o cheapens the series. Cheetara is the only one for Lion-o.

I thought when the women cat that helped Lion-o on the ship, when Lion-o was Leo. That the relationship between them was a foreshodowing of Lion-o's relationship with Cheetara. It was like little hints until the kiss.

She encourage Lio-o, gave him kisses, and then the kiss.

One thing I have learn about the writers is they are very PRO TYGRA. He has learn nothing. He knows he is better than Lion-o in everything and he won the girl. Only way he learns is he loses cheetara to Lion-o.

If this series keeps going pro Tygra, I am done. Lion-o was one of my favorite character as a kid. I was ok if there was no relationship in this, but after cheetara held lion-o's hand and said they have each other, I thougth they were set in stone. I was actually happy.

Tygra the true lord of the thunder cats in the writer minds.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:45 PM   #247
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Everyone who thinks a kiss on the chewing is leading you on or slutty is either 12 or has not done well with women.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:55 PM   #248
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The writer for this and Into The Astral Plane is pro-Tygra with him saving the Thundercats with the Thundertank, besting Lion-O in the Astral Plane, and getting Cheetara. All Lion-O has is the crown and the Spirit Stone.
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:17 PM   #249
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I am still trying to figure what happen with Cheetara. That seemed so out of character for her to kiss Tygra. You would think she would approach Lion-o first due to him taking it harder than Tygra.

How did she know what was going on? The Elephants forget everything and they give little clues.

It would be great writing in that is Mummra. Mummra use to be so awesome in the OS, they could barely beat him. I think this would not imply Mummra is gay. He is trying to get the stones and what better way to divide brothers than a women (no offense to the ladies). Mummra has been nothing so far. They wipe the floor with the kingdom and they can't beat the group.

I don't understand how anyone can say Lion-o has everything. Tygra has everything, he has beat his brother in everything they do. Tygra had the fathers love and the peoples love. Lion-o has Tech, wow that is a lot. Lion-o has no kingdom too, he has to build it from nothing.

I thought Cheetara liked Lion-o because he was different, not like the old guard (Tygra). He was fair and just. Lion-o showed mercy.

This first arch should be called the adventures of Tygra. Lion-o has not learn anything, he only learns from painful situations. He has shown no growth in the series imo.

I think any other cat that comes in and is a love interest for Lion-o cheapens the series. Cheetara is the only one for Lion-o.

I thought when the women cat that helped Lion-o on the ship, when Lion-o was Leo. That the relationship between them was a foreshodowing of Lion-o's relationship with Cheetara. It was like little hints until the kiss.

She encourage Lio-o, gave him kisses, and then the kiss.

One thing I have learn about the writers is they are very PRO TYGRA. He has learn nothing. He knows he is better than Lion-o in everything and he won the girl. Only way he learns is he loses cheetara to Lion-o.

If this series keeps going pro Tygra, I am done. Lion-o was one of my favorite character as a kid. I was ok if there was no relationship in this, but after cheetara held lion-o's hand and said they have each other, I thougth they were set in stone. I was actually happy.

Tygra the true lord of the thunder cats in the writer minds.
I completely agree that the writers made Thundercats pro-Tygra, but it's not wholly true. Don't get me wrong, my fave character is Lion-O and I would love to see Cheetara getting with Lion-O, not because I like the couple but because Cheetara had been leading Lion-O from the beginning, and that kinda makes me mad that she chose Tygra at the end, but the whole season has not been Pro-Tygra until the last two episodes where they really made Tygra stand out as the better and more powerful Thundercat. I think that the writers did so because in this season they wanted to show the watchers what Lion-O was like when he started out. The next season is probably going to be about Lion-O's growth, physically stronger and more skilled, and emotionally more mature. They are going to make the transition in Lion-O from the young, but worthy cub to the bad-ass King that he is meant to be. At least I hope so or I am done with the remake of Thundercats
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:57 PM   #250
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In repons to the last two posts, I think that you are reading too much into it. I believe the writers are following the comic book to the letter. In the comics, Tygra always had a resentment of Lion-O and it was never really dealt with, and whether or not anyone likes it...Cheetara was ALWAYS for Tygra. The introduction of other femailes is irrelevant right now...Lion-O has to learn to be the Lord he was destined to be.
Everything up until this point has been to show the young Lord what he would need to do to finally rid Third Earth of Mumm-ra...even losing Cheetara to his big brother. Betrayal is something that every leader should be made aware of, be able to recover from, and be able to rise above. Many on here have said that Tygra didn't betray hoim, but he did...and in doing that, Tygra may have met his downfall. The respect that Lion-o had in his brother, strained or otherwise, has been seriously damaged. It is doubtful that he will bounce back from this quickly, I feel that he will be sullen and withdrawn for a bit.
Cheetara too will feel the withdrawal and I suspect that it will be a little while before they find out why he has pulled back from them. No, I don't think it'll turn into hatred, but it will strngthen Lion-O resolve to be the best that he can be...to truly be the Lord of the Thundercats.
The writers aren't trying to be pro-Tygra, they are trying to give the reason why he is the way he is towards his brother. This also gives the setting for Lion-O growth as a leader that can learn from such horrible events and come out on top.
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