Thundercats Ep 13 - Between Brothers Discussion

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Lion-o is a born legend no matter how much promise tygra showed he can't measure up to what the prophecy foretold even if he lived to be as old as mum-ra and he knows that. All he can do is to try and out show lion-o now because he won't be able to later "and later might just be sooner now"

That is where it will be interesting what tygra does. Will be betray him?

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Agreed.Lion-o like King Arthur was born for greatness.

Arthur better get Guenevere from Lancelot.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

You are correct.

But as tygra said, except the crown, you will always be second best.

I think he got everything he wanted except the crown.

Are you going to feel sorry for him for that? Every king always tried to get a heir, ask the wives of King Henry viii. If they had a daughter, she would be next in line.

Tygra could have had a different fate, as in being outside the royal family. He is very fortunate to be adopted by the royal family.

We might find out later why tygra was adopted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Arthur better get Guenevere from Lancelot.

Maybe Jaga/Merlin can help out.

[Eclipse]

Disagreeing with the hero journey, I'll refer to this like I did before: a heroic journey. It is a team effort. Lion-O won't make it without the others, because he has to grow into the adult he'll become and he was never meant to do it alone.
I think that when the writers fleshed out the new series Tygra they wanted him to be a protagonist and not just a companion to the hero, which is why he has so many fans as opposed to the OS Tygra (I was so lonely back then...!) They also made sure he and Lion-O would clash yet make it through somehow.
In the end, and just to steal from a favorite show, it's the typical Starsky and Hutch, Tango and Cash, Turner & Hooch combination. They don't exactly match, but they work well together.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Disagreeing with the hero journey, I'll refer to this like I did before: a heroic journey. It is a team effort. Lion-O won't make it without the others, because he has to grow into the adult he'll become and he was never meant to do it alone.
I think that when the writers fleshed out the new series Tygra they wanted him to be a protagonist and not just a companion to the hero, which is why he has so many fans as opposed to the OS Tygra (I was so lonely back then...!) They also made sure he and Lion-O would clash yet make it through somehow.
In the end, and just to steal from a favorite show, it's the typical Starsky and Hutch, Tango and Cash, Turner & Hooch combination. They don't exactly match, but they work well together.

But that is what the main writer said. They wanted to go for a Classic Hero Journey.

They do not get along like that.

Tango liked cash to where he was fine that his sister dated him. I always thought that they should've made a tango and cash 2.

I do hope that tygra has a tribe out there where he is a prince or lord (Native Son).

[cmangund]

If they will not do the triangle from Lion-O/Cheetara side upnext, they will finish the scene with Tygra kissing Cheetara. It' obvious, even if we are not seeing the previous episodes patterns.

If they will do with T/C running then it will be like this http://www.thundercats.ws/thundercat.../24/#post24736 will conflict with Jelenic comments on not dragging and proper due, because that scenario will really drag it on and on, like the link I gave.

If they will make cheetara cannot choosing either brothers after she really knows Lion-O feelings and hurting him (of course we must get Lion-O/Cheetara lip kissing if this is the case in Ep14) that will still fit with Jelenic comment, because the old triangle form of season 1 "freezes"
for awhile, if they are going to continue it later, it will be already a new evolved triangle with Lion-O/Cheetara/Tygra already growing as a character. Or of course the another direct 180

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Arthur better get Guenevere from Lancelot.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

If they will not do the triangle from Lion-O/Cheetara side upnext, they will finish the scene with Tygra kissing Cheetara. It' obvious, even if we are not seeing the previous episodes patterns.

If they will do with T/C running then it will be like this http://www.thundercats.ws/thundercat.../24/#post24736 will conflict with Jelenic comments on not dragging and proper due, because that scenario will really drag it on and on, like the link I gave.

If they will make cheetara cannot choosing either brothers (of course we must get Lion-O/Cheetara lip kissing if this is the case in Ep14) that will still fit with Jelenic comment, because the old triangle form of season 1 "freezes"
for awhile, if they are going to continue it later, it will be already a new evolved triangle with Lion-O/Cheetara/Tygra already growing as a character. All of course the another direct 180

They did give T/C their proper due with the flower. They have took care of that angle, so on to the next part. Why does cheetara follow lion-o.

Looking at those pics, I know why.

I think tygra has grown in 13, he is finally feeling remorse to lion-o and he was ready to move on with cheetara.

Hey, I wonder if cheetara changed Annet's prediction.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Maybe Jaga/Merlin can help out.

Jaga already did by choosing Cheetara as the SoO guardian with the spell to "see" Lion-O''s "heart"

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Hey, I wonder if cheetara changed Annet's prediction.

Maybe she did at that particular point, I think part of the reason cheetara can see Tygra' skyrocketed jealousy was maybe because of the spell Jaga gave of beeing able to "see" the "heart" of both brothers from the past.

But if this betrayal bit area going bigger, then Cheetara maybe only postpone the inevitable. Like If the tiger clan are indeed betraying the lion clan form the past.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Jaga already did by choosing Cheetara as the SoO guardian with the spell to "see" Lion-O''s "heart"

And sword.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Maybe she did at that particular point, I think part of the reason cheetara can see Tygra' skyrocketed jealousy was maybe because of the spell Jaga gave of beeing able to "see" the "heart" of both brothers from the past.

But if this betrayal bit area going bigger, then Cheetara maybe only postpone the inevitable. Like If the tiger clan are indeed betraying the lion clan form the past.

So will we be getting a lion vs tiger clan war soon, with the 2 brothers having divided loyalties?

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Maybe she did at that particular point, I think part of the reason cheetara can see Tygra' skyrocketed jealousy was maybe because of the spell Jaga gave of beeing able to "see" the "heart" of both brothers from the past.

But if this betrayal bit area going bigger, then Cheetara maybe only postpone the inevitable. Like If the tiger clan are indeed betraying the lion clan form the past.

Just makes you wonder.

But that would be a good point. Tygra was going to betray lion-o and there was nothing cheetara could do.

That could be another lost cause.

I would like for tygra to go bad for a while. Doesn't mean I don't like him.

That would be great if he had mummra's sword with a stone fighting lion-o.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

So will we be getting a lion vs tiger clan war soon, with the 2 brothers having divided loyalties?

That will be epic! But maybe at the end both Tygra and Lion-O will realize it this whole war was wrong. So if this the case then Jelenic brothers of the brothers reduced butting heads will conflict, or in negative logic they butt head less but they wage war with each other thus beyond butting heads.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

And sword.

You mean Cheetara also got x-ray vision, so she chose the one with the bigger and/or longest 'sword'?

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

That will be epic! But maybe at the end both Tygra and Lion-O will realize it this whole war was wrong. So if this the case then Jelenic brothers of the brothers reduced butting heads will conflict, or in negative logic they butt head less but they wage war with each other thus beyond butting heads.

Or one could leave the group, so they don't really butt heads.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

You mean Cheetara also got x-ray vision, so she chose the one with the bigger and/or longest 'sword'?

Maybe that is what she really believes in.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

But that is what the main writer said. They wanted to go for a Classic Hero Journey.

They do not get along like that.

I think they do. And about what the main writer said, what they've done so far make me think I'm right. I also don't put my money on what they say, nobody can survive an archive and he may have said that while meaning a team effort and not a single person's journey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Tango liked cash to where he was fine that his sister dated him. I always thought that they should've made a tango and cash 2.

You do know that was exactly the point, right? They don't exactly match, but they work well together. Also the couple's choices come from quoting Castle

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I do hope that tygra has a tribe out there where he is a prince or lord (Native Son).

Methinks you just want an excuse to show Tygra out of the team and this would do it LOL But it would be an easy way out of the sibling rivalry for the crown -where I do believe the true reason is entirely different but will wait and see if I'm right or wrong- so... nope.

What I'd really like to see are the circumstances of Lion-O's birth. Jaga's "For it was written that he would be born of fire" at the beginning of episode 1 nags me.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Or one could leave the group, so they don't really butt heads.

Oh yeah good one. That will definetly not conflict with Jelenic comments.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Maybe that is what she really believes in.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

I think they do. And about what the main writer said, what they've done so far make me think I'm right. I also don't put my money on what they say, nobody can survive an archive and he may have said that while meaning a team effort and not a single person's journey.



You do know that was exactly the point, right? They don't exactly match, but they work well together. Also the couple's choices come from quoting Castle



Methinks you just want an excuse to show Tygra out of the team and this would do it LOL But it would be an easy way out of the sibling rivalry for the crown -where I do believe the true reason is entirely different but will wait and see if I'm right or wrong- so... nope.

What I'd really like to see are the circumstances of Lion-O's birth. Jaga's "For it was written that he would be born of fire" at the beginning of episode 1 nags me.

[QUOTE=Eclipse;30083]I think they do. And about what the main writer said, what they've done so far make me think I'm right. I also don't put my money on what they say, nobody can survive an archive and he may have said that while meaning a team effort and not a single person's journey.

It is not to take away from the TC. This show is about lion-o. We are kind of seeing it through his eyes. I think cheetara has helped him a lot. Yes, he would be lost without the others. But it will come down to lion-o fulfilling is destiny.

You do know that was exactly the point, right? They don't exactly match, but they work well together. Also the couple's choices come from quoting Castle

I don't think they are at that connection yet. Especially after this set back.

Methinks you just want an excuse to show Tygra out of the team and this would do it LOL But it would be an easy way out of the sibling rivalry for the crown -where I do believe the true reason is entirely different but will wait and see if I'm right or wrong- so... nope.

No I actually want tygra to have his own destiny that is outside of lion-o. Only way tygra gets over lion-o having the crown is if he has his own.

What I'd really like to see are the circumstances of Lion-O's birth. Jaga's "For it was written that he would be born of fire" at the beginning of episode 1 nags me.[/QUOTE

I do too. There is more to tygra being adopted than that has been said.

[DarkKnight]

Was Up

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

Was Up

What did you think of the pics?

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

Was Up

So what is your current persona?

[L08e16o]

Do you think we will see mummra's sword at some point?

[Balgus82]

You guys keep quoting the "classic hero's journey" and in the classic hero's journey he doesn't actually get the girl. Usually "the girl" is a temptress who tempts the hero to abandon or stray from his quest. The hero in old classic stories usually end the story alone.

"The seeker of the life beyond life must press beyond (the woman), surpass the temptations of her call, and soar to the immaculate ether beyond."

Monomyth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[DarkKnight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

So what is your current persona?

sill gogeta

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

sill gogeta

Seen the pics yet that posted by Kurtulansama?

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

What I'd really like to see are the circumstances of Lion-O's birth. Jaga's "For it was written that he would be born of fire" at the beginning of episode 1 nags me.

I took the "born of fire" to mean the destruction of Thundera and the subsequent trials he's going through on his journey.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

You guys keep quoting the "classic hero's journey" and in the classic hero's journey he doesn't actually get the girl. Usually "the girl" is a temptress who tempts the hero to abandon or stray from his quest. The hero in old classic stories usually end the story alone.

"The seeker of the life beyond life must press beyond (the woman), surpass the temptations of her call, and soar to the immaculate ether beyond."

Monomyth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are always reaching.

Yes he does how did it become a cliché. Because everyone uses it.

If you had it your way lion-o would be a martyr and tygra would be king with cheetara as queen.

Lion-o never got Atonement with the Father or he is not going to meet a goddess. Cheetara is not a Temptress. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life

[cmangund]

Another solution will be of course if she keep doing 180 every next episode, that will fit with the highest good thing. By keep doing 180 she will not hurt eitehr brother's feelings too , Since the triangle is already dumb anyway, hampered by a flower out of nowhere.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

You are always reaching.

Yes he does how did it become a cliché. Because everyone uses it.

If you had it your way lion-o would be a martyr and tygra would be king with cheetara as queen.

And this is "officially" for kids 6-11 age group. mostly Kids connect with Lion-O not Tygra. Thus the classic heros' journey here the A-Male get the A-Female.

[DarkKnight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Seen the pics yet that posted by Kurtulansama?

yup. I never noticed lion-o winked at cheetara. i was all oh lion-o ooh you sly dog.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

yup. I never noticed lion-o winked at cheetara. i was all oh lion-o ooh you sly dog.

Noticed how Cheetara responded Lion-O's wink with that eyes, and she did not repond Tygra's winked with that eyes, like she did to Lion-O.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

And this is "officially" for kids 6-11 age group. mostly Kids connect with Lion-O not Tygra. Thus the classic heros' journey here the A-Male get the A-Female.

Agreed. Lion-o is not on a spiritual journey.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

You are always reaching.

Yes he does how did it become a cliché. Because everyone uses it.

If you had it your way lion-o would be a martyr and tygra would be king with cheetara as queen.

Lion-o never got Atonement with the Father or he is not going to meet a goddess. Cheetara is not a Temptress. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life

Don't speak for me. You don't know what I think. I don't want Lion-O to be a martyr nor do I want Tygra to be king.

The hero getting the girl is a cliche because of movies, not because of classic myths and literature.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Noticed how Cheetara responded Lion-O's wink with that eyes, and she did not repond Tygra's winked with that eyes, like she did to Lion-O.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Its not yaoi, tygra will be a bengali fan boy

So now Tygra is no longer Grune fan boy?

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Noticed how Cheetara responded Lion-O's wink with that eyes, and she did not repond Tygra's winked with that eyes, like she did to Lion-O.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

So now Tygra is no longer Grune fan boy?

Well Grune working for the guy who killed Tygras father, and destroyed his kingdom probably caused him to revaluate his role models.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Its all in the details. Cheetara's dilated pupils when looking at Lion-O for 12 episodes shows it all.Those eyes aren't lying . Same principal that Holmes uses on how to know a woman is really attracted to a man or really likes/love that man. Because Love in its really basic form is really is just the chemistry. Holmes called love a chemical defect or a weakness.

[DarkKnight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Its all in the details. Cheetara's dilated pupils when looking at Lion-O for 12 episodes shows it all.Those eyes aren't lying . Same principal that Holmes uses on how to know a woman is really attracted to a man or really likes/love that man. Because Love in its really basic form is really is just the chemistry. Holmes called love a chemical defect or a weakness.

thats wha I call doin your research

[Balgus82]

Furthermore so far they have kept to those steps in the show. Of course he hasn't done ALL of them. The show just started. The article also says stories don't always have all 17.

The Call to Adventure: "The hero starts off in a mundane situation of normality from which some information is received that acts as a call to head off into the unknown."

Episode 1. Lion-O starts off in Thundera during his every day life.

Refusal of the Call: "Often when the call is given, the future hero first refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances."

Episode 1 again. Lion-O see's Mumm-Ra in the sword, but refuses to admit it.

Supernatural Aid: Once the hero has committed to the quest, consciously or unconsciously, his or her guide and magical helper appears, or becomes known. More often than not, this supernatural mentor will present the hero with one or more talismans or artifacts that will aid them later in their quest."

Episode 2 Lion-O is forced to flee and Jaga gives him the sword and gauntlet.

The Crossing of the First Threshold: "This is the point where the person actually crosses into the field of adventure, leaving the known limits of his or her world and venturing into an unknown and dangerous realm where the rules and limits are not known."

Episode 3. after the funeral when they left Thundera.

Belly of The Whale: "The belly of the whale represents the final separation from the hero's known world and self. By entering this stage, the person shows willingness to undergo a metamorphosis."

Episode 3 again. (kinda funny how it's called belly of the whale and the episode was based off Moby Dick eh?)

The Road of Trials: "The road of trials is a series of tests, tasks, or ordeals that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes."

Each episode is kinda a test.

The Meeting With the Goddess: "This is the point when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother. This is a very important step in the process and is often represented by the person finding the other person that he or she loves most completely."

This could be interpreted as Cheetara.

Woman as Temptress: "In this step, the hero faces those temptations that may lead him or her to abandon or stray from his or her quest, which does not necessarily have to be represented by a woman. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life, since the hero-knight was often tempted by lust from his spiritual journey."

This could also be interpreted as Cheetara.

Atonement with the Father: "In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving in to this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power."

Encounter with a male entity. Most likely a future fight with Mumm-Ra.

Apotheosis: "When someone dies a physical death, or dies to the self to live in spirit, he or she moves beyond the pairs of opposites to a state of divine knowledge, love, compassion and bliss. A more mundane way of looking at this step is that it is a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return."

This could be where the comment Dan made about Death not being permanent comes into play.

The Ultimate Boon: "The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail."

Getting the stones and bringing the animals together.

The rest of the steps talking about Returning which would be obvious. Lion-O coming back to rebuild Thundera.

I think they're following these steps pretty accurately so far. I don't think I'm "reaching."

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Its all in the details. Cheetara's dilated pupils when looking at Lion-O for 12 episodes shows it all.Those eyes aren't lying . Same principal that Holmes uses on how to know a woman is really attracted to a man or really likes/love that man. Because Love in its really basic form is really is just the chemistry. Holmes called love a chemical defect or a weakness.

Holmes needs to have a talk with Lion-o and Tygra.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

thats wha I call doin your research

I really like Sherlock Holmes, he is darn can really separate his emotions with his mind, thus the perfect reasoning machine.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Furthermore so far they have kept to those steps in the show. Of course he hasn't done ALL of them. The show just started. The article also says stories don't always have all 17.

(snip)

Cool.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

No I actually want tygra to have his own destiny that is outside of lion-o. Only way tygra gets over lion-o having the crown is if he has his own.

I don't think that a different crown would end the jealousy issues. Tygra's quest is to come to terms with who he is. An easy way out is just that, no value.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Holmes needs to have a talk with Lion-o and Tygra.

To fix the mess?

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

I took the "born of fire" to mean the destruction of Thundera and the subsequent trials he's going through on his journey.

I like that. For some reason though, I first imagined there might be more and would like more too. Like L.... said up there, there's some story to be told about both brothers' births. Or we'd like it to be.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

So will we be getting a lion vs tiger clan war soon, with the 2 brothers having divided loyalties?

Probably not until thundera would have to be rebuilt 1st and as far as we know the whole thunderian army was destroyed so who would fight on lion-o's side. Unless lion-o will beat bowel movement out of tygra and his whole nation by himself

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Probably not until thundera would have to be rebuilt 1st and as far as we know the whole thunderian army was destroyed so who would fight on lion-o's side. Unless lion-o will beat bowel movement out of tygra and his whole nation by himself

With Snow Meooww Lion-O will do the bowel movement dance and beat tygra.