Thundercats Ep 13 - Between Brothers Discussion

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I wonder if this will be the point where people look back and wonder if this is where the show went wrong.

I think people have already started doing that.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 05:22 PM

I really wanted to like this show, and I was till that ending last episode. But between that rushed out of nowhere Tygra/Cheetara pairing and the fact I always wanted Lion-o/Cheetara together, I'm hanging on just barely.

cmangund · 12-06-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I hope. I like getting the disappointment out of my system.

I can't see how it can't be lion-o and cheetara. The show has shown that and two episodes destroy everything.

Maybe they will do something like, Cheetara didn't know that lion-O really cared for her? Because when cheetara is supporting/flirting with him, Lion-O is quite passive. When or if Lion-O tell her his feelings for her. I don't think cheetara will say "No, I never have feelings for you". They already ruined cheetara's characters anyway by making her having feelings for both brothers. because it is obvious even willy kat and kit can see the lion-O/cheetara thing. MAybe cheetara will say something along the line that she cannot choose the brother's now that she also know Lion-O's feeling for her, that it won't be fair to any of them? and maybe tygra will say later on "then you don't need to choose until the time is right, we still have a kingdom to rebuilt anyway, this can wait." Because basically Tygra already excepted it if cheetara choose lion-o back in episode 13.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Maybe they will do something like, Cheetara didn't know that lion-O really cared for her? Because when cheetara is supporting/flirting with him, Lion-O is quite passive. When or if Lion-O tell her his feelings for her. I don't think cheetara will say "No, I never have feelings for you". They already ruined cheetara's characters anyway by making her having feelings for both brothers. because it is obvious even willy kat and kit can see the lion-O/cheetara thing. MAybe cheetara will say something along the line that she cannot choose the brother's now that she also know Lion-O's feeling for her, that it won't be fair to any of them? and maybe tygra will say later on "then you don't need to choose until the time is right, we still have a kingdom to rebuilt anyway, this can wait." Because basically Tygra already excepted it if cheetara choose lion-o back in episode 13.

I think she knew, she did say she needed to be clearer with her feelings before she said she had chosen Tygra years ago. I don't think they can weasel their way out of this one.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 05:51 PM

I agree hollowedheart, they can't get out of this one. The writers have essentially written themselves into a corner, even if they tried to backtrack it would cone across as insulting.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I agree hollowedheart, they can't get out of this one. The writers have essentially written themselves into a corner, even if they tried to backtrack it would cone across as insulting.

And how could they? They wouldn't be able to do the Mumm-ra disguised as Cheetara angle (a.k.a a guy kissing another guy), since as one Tygra fan pointed out, "Americans are (a bit) homophobic (or at least the parents), the kids wouldn't understand, and this is a kid's show on Cartoon Network." Though they sort of have a point....which sucks. CN even got in trouble for an AT episode that hinted at Marceline and Princess Bubblegum.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

I think she knew, she did say she needed to be clearer with her feelings before she said she had chosen Tygra years ago. I don't think they can weasel their way out of this one.

But she didn't say you, she was very vague. She kissed him for the flower.

If she knew how lion-o would preceive her feelings, than she is worse than tygra.

I wouldn't see it as gay, I would see it as gaining a upper hand. May be it is pumya working for mummra.

Tygra has to replace gruine, right?

These last two episodes has made tygra to be the real hero of the TC.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Maybe they will do something like, Cheetara didn't know that lion-O really cared for her? Because when cheetara is supporting/flirting with him, Lion-O is quite passive. When or if Lion-O tell her his feelings for her. I don't think cheetara will say "No, I never have feelings for you". They already ruined cheetara's characters anyway by making her having feelings for both brothers. because it is obvious even willy kat and kit can see the lion-O/cheetara thing. MAybe cheetara will say something along the line that she cannot choose the brother's now that she also know Lion-O's feeling for her, that it won't be fair to any of them? and maybe tygra will say later on "then you don't need to choose until the time is right, we still have a kingdom to rebuilt anyway, this can wait." Because basically Tygra already excepted it if cheetara choose lion-o back in episode 13.

What do you think they meant by the last sentence that you posted?

That would make tygra look like the good guy.

Why wouldn't cheetara look for tygra? It can't be because of duty, she forgot her duty when she kissed tygra.

She couldn't say she can't chose now, lion-o will never trust them again.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 06:10 PM

I wonder if the writers will get worried about the negative reaction and try some crazy idea to retcon the last two episodes.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I agree hollowedheart, they can't get out of this one. The writers have essentially written themselves into a corner, even if they tried to backtrack it would cone across as insulting.

If they go that way, they have killed the series.

There has to be more to it.

Like someone said, that was so OOC. She would have gave her life to be the a cleric and now she forgets her duty.

I am sure the first duty as a cleric is devote yourself to your king and she has failed. She knew how lion-o and tygra felt about each other, and she made it worse.

How can that be supporting your king.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I wonder if the writers will get worried about the negative reaction and try some crazy idea to retcon the last two episodes.

Unless they have Mumm-ra doing something to them, i don't see how they could retcon this.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I wonder if the writers will get worried about the negative reaction and try some crazy idea to retcon the last two episodes.

They have too, it is all about the money.

In Japan, the animators listen to their fans.

Just look how it makes cheetara look. She goes after the guy that is a D&ck. She has to be smarther than that.

How many girls fall in love with soemthing a guy does to them when they were 12. If she felt so hard for him, why didn't she ever act on her feelings. It is harder to keep your feelings in check when you are a teenager compared to adult. If she loved him that much, she would have slipped up and saw him.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

Unless they have Mumm-ra doing something to them, i don't see how they could retcon this.

They can make pumya in disguise working for mummra.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 06:16 PM

yeah at this point I think we could write a better reboot than their doing.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

And how could they? They wouldn't be able to do the Mumm-ra disguised as Cheetara angle (a.k.a a guy kissing another guy), since as one Tygra fan pointed out, "Americans are (a bit) homophobic (or at least the parents), the kids wouldn't understand, and this is a kid's show on Cartoon Network." Though they sort of have a point....which sucks. CN even got in trouble for an AT episode that hinted at Marceline and Princess Bubblegum.

CN does not care. They want to make money.

They have dropped animes, because they don't make money.

Look at some of the things on AS, they make a killing off those shows.

Family guy is on there, some people don't want their kids to watch that.

Heck bevis and but head use to be on 730 on mtv back in the days.

I think america accepts stuff like that more than in the past.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

yeah at this point I think we could write a better reboot than their doing.

I know some fanfic writers who wrote great development for Tygra and made L/C canon before they gave up because of this "reboot", it's really just a reimagining, it's got nothing in common with the OS except names and species.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

yeah at this point I think we could write a better reboot than their doing.

That is the problem, we could all write something where both lion-o cheetara, and tygra come out looking good.

Still would have lion-o with cheetara.

All I know, lion-o needs cheetara. Only she can help him be one with the SoO. Right now that is not going to happen. If they keep it realistic in the relationships, I think that kiss went beyond repair.

I know I would accept it.

I think cheetara failed her mission or should I say the writers did!

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

I know some fanfic writers who wrote great development for Tygra and made L/C canon before they gave up because of this "reboot", it's really just a reimagining, it's got nothing in common with the OS except names and species.

The people I knew that watch TC, we all wanted lion-o and cheetara. Heck even my dad loves the OS. He feels the same way I do.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 06:25 PM

Yeah , I guess I just got my hopes up when I heard about a new thundercats series. Didn't expect them to blow things this badly.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yeah , I guess I just got my hopes up when I heard about a new thundercats series. Didn't expect them to blow things this badly.

I really go my hopes up after the cheetara and lion-o stuff. Then legacy.

Now I want to drop it.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 06:32 PM

What makes this so weird is, until I read those thundercats comics several years ago, I never even considered Tygra and Cheetara being together. And even then it just seemed off.

cmangund · 12-06-2011, 06:37 PM

I don't think she really now Lion-O's feelings for her. Sure She knows that lion-O like her but to what extend? At this point the only thing that she really know is Tygra's feelings for her. If she knew Lion-o's feelings and didn't even say anything to lion-o before she choose tygra, then that is a complete not fixable OOC. I don't think they will ruin her character that far. Not after showing how supportive she was to Lion-O, even getting angry to tygra back in episode 6 when tygra was ridiculing lion-o about mastering sight beyond sight.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

What makes this so weird is, until I read those thundercats comics several years ago, I never even considered Tygra and Cheetara being together. And even then it just seemed off.

I never thought they would get together, because how tygra's attitude towards lion-o was.

In the opening, I thought she was disgusted at him when he winked at her.

All the facts and logic say L and C, it is poorly developed for T/C.

They developed it well for L/C, kinda of like romances.

Maybe she liked tygra for his kindness, but she sees that more in lion-o.

I thougth when she said he was different, that is what attracted her to him.

People say she was his body guard, well where was she when tygra tried to kill him.

You can't make animes with holes in it like in the past. Fans are to good at picking up stuff like that.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

I don't think she really now Lion-O's feelings for her. Sure She knows that lion-O like her but to what extend? At this point the only thing that she really know is Tygra's feelings for her. If she knew Lion-o's feelings and didn't even say anything to lion-o before she choose tygra, then that is a complete not fixable OOC. I don't think they will ruin her character that far. Not after showing how supportive she was to Lion-O, even getting angry to tygra back in episode 6 when tygra was ridiculing lion-o about mastering sight beyond sight.

Again, she said she should have been clearer with her feelings since she thought she made it worse. There's a rare chance she didn't know, but everyone else (even the twins) could see his attraction. She's not stupid.
But all she said to Tygra was to believe in Lion-o, not to treat him better.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 06:48 PM

The writers spent most of the 11 episodes building Lion-o Cheetara, and then out of nowhere we get a flashback of Tygra and Cheetara from their childhood and now she's in love with him. This is just VERY bad writing.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

I don't think she really now Lion-O's feelings for her. Sure She knows that lion-O like her but to what extend? At this point the only thing that she really know is Tygra's feelings for her. If she knew Lion-o's feelings and didn't even say anything to lion-o before she choose tygra, then that is a complete not fixable OOC. I don't think they will ruin her character that far. Not after showing how supportive she was to Lion-O, even getting angry to tygra back in episode 6 when tygra was ridiculing lion-o about mastering sight beyond sight.

And why would she pick him when that is all tygra has shown. So far tygra has no redeemable qualities. What he did at 12 is different than who he is now. I am totally different than I was at 12.

If she likes lion-o than she can't rush it, that is what jaga taught her about patience.

I think they have ruin her in a lot of peoples eyes. She was the one to betray lion-o. She said she felt like to contribute to what they went througth in the astro plane. She had to know lion-o liked her.

I hope they have lion-o confess in 14, so she knows where he stands.

I am holding out for L/C.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

Again, she said she should have been clearer with her feelings since she thought she made it worse. There's a rare chance she didn't know, but everyone else (even the twins) could see his attraction. She's not stupid.
But all she said to Tygra was to believe in Lion-o, not to treat him better.

See that is what sucks.

Jaga told me to believe in lion-o and you have to my love.

It she is not interest in lion-o she is treating him like a kid. That is one way make someone your enemy.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 06:55 PM

The fact that pretty much every poster on this thread has stated in great detail how bad those last 2 episodes were says a lot about how badly the writers messed up.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The writers spent most of the 11 episodes building Lion-o Cheetara, and then out of nowhere we get a flashback of Tygra and Cheetara from their childhood and now she's in love with him. This is just VERY bad writing.

Over one things. It never built from there.

Tygra could have looked for her.

How did tygra know about the flower and did he intend for her to eat it?

If that was true you would see Jr HS and HS couples marrying all the time. In this day and age, that is very rare.

Big Snarf · 12-06-2011, 06:56 PM

The easy out for the writers would be that what lion-o saw was an illusion created by tygra since he does have that ability in the OS

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The fact that pretty much every poster on this thread has stated in great detail how bad those last 2 episodes were says a lot about how badly the writers messed up.

How many were there besides us 3? And i really hate how the producers might think that doing this will get more attention on the show.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

The fact that pretty much every poster on this thread has stated in great detail how bad those last 2 episodes were says a lot about how badly the writers messed up.

Don't you think there is more to it. Maybe we don't see the whole picture.

I hope there is more to it.

They don't usually show the true relationships this early. That is more toward the end.

Well tygra has the spot light. Even if lion-o goes SS4, he has lost to his brother. That can't redeem this.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

The easy out for the writers would be that what lion-o saw was an illusion created by tygra since he does have that ability in the OS

Something like that.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

How many were there besides us 3? And i really hate how the producers might think that doing this will get more attention on the show.

There are more.

I don't post on anime sites, but my disappointment pushed me to post.

They will find out in the pockets.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 07:08 PM

I wonder how bad the sales will be? I know some of the toys seem badly made, like Panthro's expression. And the second half of season one still doesn't haave a DVD release date.

cmangund · 12-06-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

Again, she said she should have been clearer with her feelings since she thought she made it worse. There's a rare chance she didn't know, but everyone else (even the twins) could see his attraction. She's not stupid.
But all she said to Tygra was to believe in Lion-o, not to treat him better.

Yes, she said she should have been clearer with her feelings since she thought she made it worse, but it didn't tell us anything about her knowing lion-o's true feelings for her. Yes she is not stupid, I know. She definitely knows that lion-o like her but what she does not know is, is it just attraction between M/F or real caring feelings or love. They said they wanted to create characters with depth and layers in the new thundercats, well if that is the case then there are a lot of grey areas, that in my opinion that the writers can use. So far they have shown grey areas anyways, Grune and Panthro relationship, it not completely black and white. It is not like she is married to Tygra or it is a done deal, they are just starting a relationship. I am sure if Lion-O speaks up it will effect things. Otherwise episode 13 would not ended the way it was, by showing the devastated lion-o with that music tone.

Still, her face was showing anger to tygra, when saying that he has to believe in him.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 07:12 PM

When I saw that Panthro figure where it looked like he was wearing lipstick I laughed.

Pand3mix · 12-06-2011, 07:18 PM

Gawd I missed a lot, stop posting so much >

Anyways, I think this is the one of few forums I have read where people are upset about the triangle.

I don't like reading people wanting pumyra as the fall to girl. That is kind of insulting, if they bring in the other thundercats I don't want to dirty those characters to fix this problem.

However, I really do think that Tygra gaining his abilty of illusions by this would be very exciting. But that would kind of null the whole betrayal bit and would make him seem very nutty.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 07:24 PM

Well if they want Tygra going the villain route giving him mind powers with sinister intent could work.

Pand3mix · 12-06-2011, 07:27 PM

Tygra with mind powers I think would redeem the series on a level.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 07:33 PM

And it would, i think, explain why the branch broke if he really wanted it to in his mind/heart, since he didn't seem that strong for a 12 year old.

Pand3mix · 12-06-2011, 07:35 PM

Yeah, that's pretty impressive for a child to break a whole log with a kick. If that was the case, maybe even the flower memory is altered to an extent.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 07:38 PM

I think it could be good if Tygra discovered mind powers and (even briefly) turned to the darkside. Mumm-ras been looking pretty pitiful lately anyway, and the show has no problem moving far away from OS characterizations, so they may as well go for it.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pand3mix

Yeah, that's pretty impressive for a child to break a whole log with a kick. If that was the case, maybe even the flower memory is altered to an extent.

If they go that route, it could be altered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I think it could be good if Tygra discovered mind powers and (even briefly) turned to the darkside. Mumm-ras been looking pretty pitiful lately anyway, and the show has no problem moving far away from OS characterizations, so they may as well go for it.

Yeah, Mumm-ra is rather pitiful, and they have no problem with ruining characterization.

Pand3mix · 12-06-2011, 07:57 PM

Honestly I hope that is the first thing they correct... Mumm-Ra and his not so bad self.

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 08:21 PM

Yeah a season with evil mind power Tygra would definately liven things up. Cheetara could try to bring him back from the darkside, or feel she made a terrible mistake getting together with him in the first place, Lion-o would be torn between wanting to save his brother and wanting to write him off altogether.

Big Snarf · 12-06-2011, 08:52 PM

What lion-o saw when he saw tygra and cheetara kissing might have been tygra "thinking out loud" meaning it wasn't real as cheetara may have been somewhere else at the time. It can explain the question everyone is asking "how did cheetara know what happened in the astral plane?" Because that was just tygra imagination and lion-o thinks what he saw was real and he may start to treat cheetara differently.

hollowdheart · 12-06-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Yeah a season with evil mind power Tygra would definately liven things up. Cheetara could try to bring him back from the darkside, or feel she made a terrible mistake getting together with him in the first place, Lion-o would be torn between wanting to save his brother and wanting to write him off altogether.

Do you think, if that happened, she would break up with him and get with someone else?

stormbringer · 12-06-2011, 09:36 PM

Possibly, but I'm not sure who.

L08e16o · 12-06-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Yes, she said she should have been clearer with her feelings since she thought she made it worse, but it didn't tell us anything about her knowing lion-o's true feelings for her. Yes she is not stupid, I know. She definitely knows that lion-o like her but what she does not know is, is it just attraction between M/F or real caring feelings or love. They said they wanted to create characters with depth and layers in the new thundercats, well if that is the case then there are a lot of grey areas, that in my opinion that the writers can use. So far they have shown grey areas anyways, Grune and Panthro relationship, it not completely black and white. It is not like she is married to Tygra or it is a done deal, they are just starting a relationship. I am sure if Lion-O speaks up it will effect things. Otherwise episode 13 would not ended the way it was, by showing the devastated lion-o with that music tone.

Still, her face was showing anger to tygra, when saying that he has to believe in him.

Think about his. Would tygra get jealous or moved on cheetara, if he didn't think lion-o and her had some type of connection.

I don't think he would. If he was into her, he would have found her.

I think tygra got all the female cats. He was sure about himself when he winked at cheetara. He didn't even know that was her.

12-06-2011, 05:58 PM	#406
hollowdheart Thunderian Commoner Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 349	Quote: Originally Posted by stormbringer I agree hollowedheart, they can't get out of this one. The writers have essentially written themselves into a corner, even if they tried to backtrack it would cone across as insulting. And how could they? They wouldn't be able to do the Mumm-ra disguised as Cheetara angle (a.k.a a guy kissing another guy), since as one Tygra fan pointed out, "Americans are (a bit) homophobic (or at least the parents), the kids wouldn't understand, and this is a kid's show on Cartoon Network." Though they sort of have a point....which sucks. CN even got in trouble for an AT episode that hinted at Marceline and Princess Bubblegum. Last edited by hollowdheart; 12-06-2011 at 06:06 PM..

12-06-2011, 06:37 PM	#422
cmangund Hardcore Lion-O + L/C Fan Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: In the timeline where L/C already happened Posts: 1,924	I don't think she really now Lion-O's feelings for her. Sure She knows that lion-O like her but to what extend? At this point the only thing that she really know is Tygra's feelings for her. If she knew Lion-o's feelings and didn't even say anything to lion-o before she choose tygra, then that is a complete not fixable OOC. I don't think they will ruin her character that far. Not after showing how supportive she was to Lion-O, even getting angry to tygra back in episode 6 when tygra was ridiculing lion-o about mastering sight beyond sight. Last edited by cmangund; 12-06-2011 at 06:42 PM..