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Old 03-30-2012, 04:17 PM   #651
hollowdheart
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I have seen them "joke" about such a situation, but honestly, I find it impossible to tell when they're joking, and when they're being serious.
Some folks over at TCL aren't any better with the racist apologist stuff in the Between Brothers thread. I consider that worse because they actually believe what they're saying.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #652
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Some folks over at TCL aren't any better with the racist apologist stuff in the Between Brothers thread. I consider that worse because they actually believe what they're saying.
I haven't posted at TCL in months. Not everyone there was like that but a lot of posters there are.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:22 PM   #653
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Some folks over at TCL aren't any better with the racist apologist stuff in the Between Brothers thread. I consider that worse because they actually believe what they're saying.
I don't even comment on much over there anymore. mention something of Tygra in the least bit negative and you're blasted... sad really...
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:24 PM   #654
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I don't even comment on much over there anymore. mention something of Tygra in the least bit negative and you're blasted... sad really...
Yeah, its definately not a pleasant environment if you don't worship T/C.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:32 PM   #655
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As for the thing of if they're joking or not, am i supposed to apply that to things on TCL like how Lion-o's mom must have been mean/racist against Tygra and that's why he acts like he does, or how Tygra's not racist since he was just doing what Claudus did? Because i'm sure Tygra has a mind of his own, and insulting a dead woman isn't cool.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:33 PM   #656
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Some folks over at TCL aren't any better with the racist apologist stuff in the Between Brothers thread.
I have literally no experience with TCL, so can't comment on that situation.

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I consider that worse because they actually believe what they're saying.
And you believe the "people" here don't believe what they're saying? Sure, they've "joked" about some stuff, but they've said some pretty serious stuff too. Either they have a really sick sense of humor, or they actually believe that Claudus would behead Cheetara for her decisions.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:35 PM   #657
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As for the thing of if they're joking or not, am i supposed to apply that to things on TCL like how Lion-o's mom must have been mean/racist against Tygra and that's why he acts like he does, or how Tygra's not racist since he was just doing what Claudus did? Because i'm sure Tygra has a mind of his own, and insulting a dead woman isn't cool.
Exactly thank you. You've seen our posts hollowdheart,they are nothing like TCL.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:36 PM   #658
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I have literally no experience with TCL, so can't comment on that situation.


And you believe the "people" here don't believe what they're saying? Sure, they've "joked" about some stuff, but they've said some pretty serious stuff too. Either they have a really sick sense of humor, or they actually believe that Claudus would behead Cheetara for her decisions.
It's actually quite odd, the whole debate, since they said Tygra couldn't be racist since the Lizards are mortal enemies/he's a soldier.

What they said was that if (i presume) Cheetara had done that in a situation with Claudus (as king/fighting alongside them)she would have been killed for insubordination.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:44 PM   #659
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It's actually quite odd, the whole debate, since they said Tygra couldn't be racist since the Lizards are mortal enemies/he's a soldier.

What they said was that if (i presume) Cheetara had done that in a situation with Claudus (as king/fighting alongside them)she would have been killed for insubordination.
in most cultures with a King if one shows loyalty to anyone or anything besides his/her king the punishment is death, or exile if the king has a soft spot for ya. Just how it goes.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:48 PM   #660
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in most cultures with a King if one shows loyalty to anyone or anything besides his/her king the punishment is death, or exile if the king has a soft spot for ya. Just how it goes.
Which was exactly my point when I brought up death/exile. There's no way Cheetara would get off Scott free, the way some of the fans want. No one who did that would. In the tv series Merlin, King Arthur has banished people who have proved disloyal, whereas his father Uther would have publicly executed them. Even if Cheetara was under the rules similar to that of the US military, she would be court martialed and dishonourbly discharged for what she did last episode.

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Old 03-30-2012, 05:13 PM   #661
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I'm not twisting facts, and I find it insulting that you claim that I have.
My apologies.

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I haven't put it on a pedestal, and I haven't seen anybody else do so. As for the love triangle, I think it's been handled quite well so far, and as far as I'm concerned, it ended with episode thirteen. From that point on it's been Tygra and Cheetara trying to have a relationship during a war, and Lion-O's jealousy getting in the way of his leadership.
I donít agree with that. Itís not always that simple. A love triangle need not end just because two people begin a relationship, actually, it might just complicate things further. This triangle is bound to continue for a few more episodes, at least until episode 16.

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Also, what you see as "many", is really a small percentage of people on here. The reason those on your side of this argument appear to be "many", is cause several of you don't multiquote.
Maybe i should have said 'some'? Either way, arguing over which side of the argument has more supporters may not be the best use of time.


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Lion-O did misread her signals, as did several "fans".
Letís not forget that Tygra interpreted Cheetaraís signals in much the same way as Lion-O did. Heíd resigned himself to the possibility that she Ďchoseí Lion-O (In episode 13, just before the flashback.).

Cheetara presses up against Lion-O, holds his hand, kisses him and whispers in his ear. She does nothing so suggestive with Tygra. The writers did this intentionally. I understand that they wanted to make us feel Lion-Oís indignation, his shock when she chose Tygra. And thatís fine, I just feel that they could have taken more time and developed this triangle much better instead of this rush job.

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While the flashback was out of the blue, that didn't make it less significant in any way, shape, or form.
The fact that it was out of the blue, that it took only a cute little 23 second flashback to justify such a significant plot point is enough to make me question the legitimacy of the T/C relationship. There has been a lot of sloppy writing, particularly with regard to characterisation.

I think I need to repeat this, I donít care if Cheetara chooses Tygra while breaking Lion-Oís heart in the process, just donít do it in such an unbelievable, shoddy manner.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:15 PM   #662
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Some folks over at TCL aren't any better with the racist apologist stuff in the Between Brothers thread. I consider that worse because they actually believe what they're saying.
I post both here and on TCL. I honestly don't recall anything racist on either board.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #663
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Which was exactly my point when I brought up death/exile. There's no way Cheetara would get off Scott free, the way some of the fans want. No one who did that would. In the tv series Merlin, King Arthur has banished people who have proved disloyal, whereas his father Uther would have publicly executed them. Even if Cheetara was under the rules similar to that of the US military, she would be court martialed and dishonourbly discharged for what she did last episode.
The difference is Lion-O no longer has a kingdom. She can't really be court martialed because really with Jaga dead she's the leader of the Clerics and she's the only one still alive. There's no point in discharging someone from a group where they're the only member. And Lion-O can't really exile her because he no longer has anywhere to exile her from. They're a wandering group. The Thundertank is Panthro's so IMO Lion-O can't really banish anyone from the tank without Panthro's permission. Add on the fact that if he DID try to banish Cheetara then Tygra might choose to go with her, thus breaking up the group and making them weaker and less likely to be able to defeat Mumm-Ra.

Without a kingdom Lion-O is king in name only and he only has the authority he still has because the group continues to follow him. He doesn't have any remaining police force or guards to enforce his banishment. They're all he has left.

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Old 03-30-2012, 05:28 PM   #664
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I post both here and on TCL. I honestly don't recall anything racist on either board.
I said racist apologist stuff, as in people making excuses for it.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:30 PM   #665
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The difference is Lion-O no longer has a kingdom. She can't really be court martialed because really with Jaga dead she's the leader of the Clerics and she's the only one still alive. There's no point in discharging someone from a group where they're the only member. And Lion-O can't really exile her because he no longer has anywhere to exile her from. They're a wandering group. The Thundertank is Panthro's so IMO Lion-O can't really banish anyone from the tank without Panthro's permission. Add on the fact that if he DID try to banish Cheetara then Tygra might choose to go with her, thus breaking up the group and making them weaker and less likely to be able to defeat Mumm-Ra.

Without a kingdom Lion-O is king in name only and he only has the authority he still has because the group continues to follow him. He doesn't have any remaining police force or guards to enforce his banishment. They're all he has left.
Right now Lion O has lost a lot of respect from said group, the only ones I really see truely having his back (that he can trust with said back) is Panthro and the thunderkittens. He needs to set his dominance of the group, he is the Lord of the Thundercats and rightful King of Thundara. He needs to reign it all together before th team litterally tears itself appart.

Tygra getting a taste of the role next ep might do some good, and not really judging his job performance, as we haven't seen it yet, but in probably less then a ep as leader, the whole team is captured by Mumm-Ra? umm...
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:35 PM   #666
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Tygra getting a taste of the role next ep might do some good, and not really judging his job performance, as we haven't seen it yet, but in probably less then a ep as leader, the whole team is captured by Mumm-Ra? umm...
Could be time for some humble-pie.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:42 PM   #667
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Tygra getting a taste of the role next ep might do some good, and not really judging his job performance, as we haven't seen it yet, but in probably less then a ep as leader, the whole team is captured by Mumm-Ra? umm...

**Spoilers for episode 15 ahead**


And? They get captured under Lion-O's leadership in episode 15. How is it any different if they get captured when Tygra leads?

Actually from what I understand under Tygra's leadership they escape from captivity and go after the sword. The synopsis doesn't say they're captured. It says Lion-O rescues them. Sounds more to me like While trying to get the sword back they attack and try to get it back and start loosing.

Even Lion-O would've lost to Mumm-Ra without the Sword in the past.

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Old 03-30-2012, 05:46 PM   #668
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Right now Lion O has lost a lot of respect from said group, the only ones I really see truely having his back (that he can trust with said back) is Panthro and the thunderkittens. He needs to set his dominance of the group, he is the Lord of the Thundercats and rightful King of Thundara. He needs to reign it all together before th team litterally tears itself appart.

Tygra getting a taste of the role next ep might do some good, and not really judging his job performance, as we haven't seen it yet, but in probably less then a ep as leader, the whole team is captured by Mumm-Ra? umm...
I guess when Lion-o returns and saves them all, that would prove that he's the rightful Lord.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #669
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The difference is Lion-O no longer has a kingdom. She can't really be court martialed because really with Jaga dead she's the leader of the Clerics and she's the only one still alive. There's no point in discharging someone from a group where they're the only member. And Lion-O can't really exile her because he no longer has anywhere to exile her from. They're a wandering group. The Thundertank is Panthro's so IMO Lion-O can't really banish anyone from the tank without Panthro's permission. Add on the fact that if he DID try to banish Cheetara then Tygra might choose to go with her, thus breaking up the group and making them weaker and less likely to be able to defeat Mumm-Ra.

Without a kingdom Lion-O is king in name only and he only has the authority he still has because the group continues to follow him. He doesn't have any remaining police force or guards to enforce his banishment. They're all he has left.
True he can't banish her from a kingdom that no longer exists. I was mostly saying all that to highlight the severity of what Cheetara did, and that under normal circumstances she would be in big trouble.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:59 PM   #670
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I have a theory that even if Tygra gets his hands on the sword he won't be able to use it. The sword may even show him why he isn't worthy, flashing back to previous times when he was being an especially big dick. Starting with the times he bullied Lion-O as a kid and culminating in his decision to chase the sword and leave Lion-O for dead.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #671
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I have a theory that even if Tygra gets his hands on the sword he won't be able to use it. The sword may even show him why he isn't worthy, flashing back to previous times when he was being an especially big dick. Starting with the times he bullied Lion-O as a kid and culminating in his decision to chase the sword and leave Lion-O for dead.
"Tygra this is your life"!
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #672
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After all is said and done though I'm hoping "Trials Part 2" ends with Lion-O and Tygra reconciling, both brothers ignoring Cheetarah to embrace one another. Not only will it be a warm fuzzy moment and will drive the yaoi fangirls INSANE.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:31 PM   #673
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After all is said and done though I'm hoping "Trials Part 2" ends with Lion-O and Tygra reconciling, both brothers ignoring Cheetarah to embrace one another. Not only will it be a warm fuzzy moment and will drive the yaoi fangirls INSANE.
I'd love it both brothers reconciled, and both got over Cheetara. It would serve her right!
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:38 PM   #674
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I'd love it both brothers reconciled, and both got over Cheetara. It would serve her right!
A good scenario would be Tygra and Lion-O going "bro's before hoes" after a big battle and leaving Cheetara behind haha
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:59 PM   #675
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She chose to surrender because there was no better option at that time. There's no way she and Lion-O would have been able to handle the three generals on their own, so letting Tygra be offed would have only hurt their situation. Any chance that they could have been taken prisoner, even a very slim chance, was a better option than knowingly letting a teammate be murdered. Did her emotions play a part in that? Yeah, they did, but in the end all three of them survived. Would you really prefer them to have offed Tygra in the episode? Most especially because of Lion-O's stupidity? (aka going into the battle without the initial support of his team).
Let's not kid ourselves here. The only reasons they lost the fight was because the plot mandated it. With all their abilities/weapons/spells/guns, they should have been able to trounce the three generals 3v3 or 2v2, especially since the other side doesn't seem to have any super powers. Unless you count having a sense of smell as one.

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Cheetara said she sends mixed signals. You disagree. And that's alright. Not even Lion-O believed it. But for the sake of argument, if we believe that Cheetara was intentionally flirting, and Lion-O never flirted back, then what's she supposed to think? He's not interested? Maybe this isn't the guy she wants? What's his deal? How long is she supposed to put herself out there, before she gives up waiting for him to
make a move?

Just so you know, portraying Cheetara as a woman who will easily go from one man to another just because the one she supposedly flirts with/likes doesn't reciprocate her advances? Not helping her character. Especially since the first season takes places over what? A few months at most? I mean, if she had strong feelings for Lion-O and then suddenly went with Tygra just cause Lion-O wasn't working out, that would be quite shallow of her. Likewise if she had strong feelings for Tygra and was 'testing the waters' with Lion-O.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:25 PM   #676
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Just so you know, portraying Cheetara as a woman who will easily go from one man to another just because the one she supposedly flirts with/likes doesn't reciprocate her advances? Not helping her character. Especially since the first season takes places over what? A few months at most? I mean, if she had strong feelings for Lion-O and then suddenly went with Tygra just cause Lion-O wasn't working out, that would be quite shallow of her. Likewise if she had strong feelings for Tygra and was 'testing the waters' with Lion-O.
Nicely said, and I don't think the creators were trying to portray her that way at all (nor do I see her like that). She always cared deeply for Tygra but had an obligation to Lion-O. Unfortunately she's still young herself and the way she went about things contributed to (but are not solely responsible for) someone getting hurt. She's not perfect, she still makes mistakes.
EVERYONE in this show makes mistakes because the only way you can have strong character development is if those characters have flaws they need to overcome. Lion-O has his brashness and self-doubt, Tygra has his jealousy and resentment, and Cheetarah has to learn that maybe she doesn't know as much as she thought she did (please don't claim I'm accusing her of being a know-it-all, that's not my intention).
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:34 PM   #677
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Nicely said, and I don't think the creators were trying to portray her that way at all (nor do I see her like that). She always cared deeply for Tygra but had an obligation to Lion-O. Unfortunately she's still young herself and the way she went about things contributed to (but are not solely responsible for) someone getting hurt. She's not perfect, she still makes mistakes.
EVERYONE in this show makes mistakes because the only way you can have strong character development is if those characters have flaws they need to overcome. Lion-O has his brashness and self-doubt, Tygra has his jealousy and resentment, and Cheetarah has to learn that maybe she doesn't know as much as she thought she did (please don't claim I'm accusing her of being a know-it-all, that's not my intention).
She also needs to learn more about personal space and how to watch over someone properly without getting too close.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #678
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She also needs to learn more about personal space and how to watch over someone properly without getting too close.
Like I said before, there are ways to be supportive without pressing your boobs up against someone.

That would be a great signature quote...
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:41 PM   #679
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let me get it.

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Old 03-30-2012, 07:43 PM   #680
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I think i've started another argument at TCL.
What'd you say. I'm sure I'll fully support you.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:56 PM   #681
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Like I said before, there are ways to be supportive without pressing your boobs up against someone.

That would be a great signature quote...
Like I said before, if Cheetara simply apologized to Lion-o, I'm sure he would forgive her.

And if you don't use that as a signature quote, I might have to.

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Old 03-30-2012, 08:14 PM   #682
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Like I said before, if Cheetara simply apologized to Lion-o, I'm sure he would forgive her.

And if you don't use that as a signature quote, I might have to.
If she apologized he might have too, recognizing that he should have talked to her when he was confused about her intentions. Sometimes all it takes is that token gesture to get things started. Cheetarah doesn't feel like she was wronged, Lion-O does. Even if she thinks she's justified making a token apology is a start to fixing things. Lion-O did it for Tygra when he said he was happy for them.

The problem is if everyone in a cartoon solved their problems like rational, civilized people there would be no show.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:32 PM   #683
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More importantly,the clerics in episode 1 could shoot lightning. Why is Cheetara not shooting lightning?
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:34 PM   #684
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I have a theory that even if Tygra gets his hands on the sword he won't be able to use it. The sword may even show him why he isn't worthy, flashing back to previous times when he was being an especially big dick. Starting with the times he bullied Lion-O as a kid and culminating in his decision to chase the sword and leave Lion-O for dead.
From what I've been told any cat can use the sword, but it only comes out to it's full potential in the right hands. So Lion-O is the only one who can use the special powers like sight beyond sight and the like, but Tygra should be able to at least use the abilities it displayed in Claudus's hands.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:40 PM   #685
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After all is said and done though I'm hoping "Trials Part 2" ends with Lion-O and Tygra reconciling, both brothers ignoring Cheetarah to embrace one another. Not only will it be a warm fuzzy moment and will drive the yaoi fangirls INSANE.
You just started a even bigger ship.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:42 PM   #686
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Like I said before, if Cheetara simply apologized to Lion-o, I'm sure he would forgive her.

And if you don't use that as a signature quote, I might have to.
Wouldn't have a love triangle.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:42 PM   #687
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More importantly,the clerics in episode 1 could shoot lightning. Why is Cheetara not shooting lightning?
I only saw jaga do it. I don't remember any other ones doing it.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:45 PM   #688
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She also needs to learn more about personal space and how to watch over someone properly without getting too close.
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Like I said before, there are ways to be supportive without pressing your boobs up against someone.

That would be a great signature quote...
She knew what she was doing, even the kids knew.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:47 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by L08e16o View Post
I only saw jaga do it. I don't remember any other ones doing it.
Maybe it requires a certain level of experience?
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:47 PM   #690
L08e16o
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Originally Posted by CCDustyV View Post
in most cultures with a King if one shows loyalty to anyone or anything besides his/her king the punishment is death, or exile if the king has a soft spot for ya. Just how it goes.
You're so right. When I was Thailand, you couldn't say anything about the king and queen.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:48 PM   #691
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Maybe it requires a certain level of experience?
It comes back to the same question for me. If she is not at that level, then why assign her to a heir to the throne. Doesn't make sense.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:51 PM   #692
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My apologies.



I donít agree with that. Itís not always that simple. A love triangle need not end just because two people begin a relationship, actually, it might just complicate things further. This triangle is bound to continue for a few more episodes, at least until episode 16.



Maybe i should have said 'some'? Either way, arguing over which side of the argument has more supporters may not be the best use of time.




Letís not forget that Tygra interpreted Cheetaraís signals in much the same way as Lion-O did. Heíd resigned himself to the possibility that she Ďchoseí Lion-O (In episode 13, just before the flashback.).

Cheetara presses up against Lion-O, holds his hand, kisses him and whispers in his ear. She does nothing so suggestive with Tygra. The writers did this intentionally. I understand that they wanted to make us feel Lion-Oís indignation, his shock when she chose Tygra. And thatís fine, I just feel that they could have taken more time and developed this triangle much better instead of this rush job.



The fact that it was out of the blue, that it took only a cute little 23 second flashback to justify such a significant plot point is enough to make me question the legitimacy of the T/C relationship. There has been a lot of sloppy writing, particularly with regard to characterisation.

I think I need to repeat this, I donít care if Cheetara chooses Tygra while breaking Lion-Oís heart in the process, just donít do it in such an unbelievable, shoddy manner.
You're correct the triangle started at the end of 13.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:52 PM   #693
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Originally Posted by L08e16o View Post
It comes back to the same question for me. If she is not at that level, then why assign her to a heir to the throne. Doesn't make sense.
I guess we have to fall back on the only explanation for that which does not make sense. Plot convenience/poor writing.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:53 PM   #694
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Which was exactly my point when I brought up death/exile. There's no way Cheetara would get off Scott free, the way some of the fans want. No one who did that would. In the tv series Merlin, King Arthur has banished people who have proved disloyal, whereas his father Uther would have publicly executed them. Even if Cheetara was under the rules similar to that of the US military, she would be court martialed and dishonourbly discharged for what she did last episode.
In a time of war they can kill you. If you ever watched how in WWI they would run on the lines, they would kill you if you retreated instead of pushing forward on the fronts.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:53 PM   #695
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Originally Posted by Sining View Post
More importantly,the clerics in episode 1 could shoot lightning. Why is Cheetara not shooting lightning?
I've been wondering that myself. It makes me think maybe Cheetara hadn't totally completed her training. Either that or the powers like that might take a lot out of you. We haven't seen her use any magic that's not connected to her staff. Her speed was natural to her before she even became a Cleric.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:54 PM   #696
L08e16o
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I guess we have to fall back on the only explanation for that which does not make sense. Plot convenience/poor writing.
See, that is so weak. Only 14 episodes in.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:59 PM   #697
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Exactly thank you. You've seen our posts hollowdheart,they are nothing like TCL.
Of course we have our "standards".

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Old 03-30-2012, 09:00 PM   #698
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See, that is so weak. Only 14 episodes in.
Yeah, you'd think they would have worked out some of these details. But just like how in last episode, when they were fighting the generals, the writers apparently forgot the TCats had powers.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:04 PM   #699
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Of course we have our "standards".

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Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.
Yep.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #700
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Originally Posted by Sining View Post
More importantly,the clerics in episode 1 could shoot lightning. Why is Cheetara not shooting lightning?
I just got done watching the beginning two-parter, and the only one that shot lightning was Jaga. Could be that she's not experienced enough to do something like that. With Jaga's age and great amount of experience, there was bound to be certain things he could do that her and the others couldn't. It might be something she learns in the future.

Last edited by Ravenxl7; 03-30-2012 at 09:11 PM..
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