Thundercats Ep 15 Trials of Lion-O Pt 1 Discussion

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

That goes for Lion-O, actually. He could and should have used SBS in order to clarify the location of the stone before deciding to follow that trail, and didn't. He endangered the team and lost the sword because of his own decisions.

Yeah, it's hateful But that's how it was written to justify the trials.

At this point the book showed the direction up in plain sight for all of them to see just like before but now for some reason everyone wants to be all negative so even if lion-o used sight beyond sight they weren't going to change what they thought. The fact tygra asks if lion-o knows were he leading them as if lion-o has already been there just shows the mind set of the team as the book showed the direction so just go that direction

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

You have to remember that Tygra isn't some common low level cat, he's the next one in line of the throne. One of her duties is to protect the Royal Family. It's easy to write it off as a personal choice of hers but there is also merit that this was a conflict of duties of protecting Royal Family vs. orders that risk his life.

In ep 2 who did both tygra and cheetara bow to when jaga made lion-o the official king ? That bowing was an oath to serve and protect the king. He is only next in line because lion-o doesn't have an heir or blood siblings so tygra really has no shot at being king of thundera as long as lion-o lives or has offspring.

[Ruthie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthie

Lion-O proved himself to be a bigger twit than anyone could have imagined. And within 5 minutes Tygra demonstrated that he is twice the man and king that Lion-O will ever be. No wonder Cheetara chose him.

OOOPS!!! What I meant to say is: SQUEE! Cheetara kissed Lion-O! That means she really thinks he is the love of her life. Enough of the stupid thing with Tygra! The Cheet-O ship is moving at 60 knots! Cheetara and Lion-O = LFE!

Okay, after thinking about it, I can see why some people would take offense to this post. So to you, I apologize. I meant no harm because I don't consider anything about the show consequential to life or relationships, but I can understand how those of you who have that level of emotion invested in it can be sensitive to posts that poke fun at your investment. So, once again, I apologize.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

They were in a position to ambush and had the surprise advantage. Lion-O could have waited a little longer, but nope he charged them.




Lion-O was straight out sucidal. His first decision was to go at them solo. If Cheetara and Tygra didn't assist, the fool would be dead. It was his fault and he drag them both down into it.

If Lion-O wasn't so pigheaded, he could have made use a decent ambush. Tygra has a freaking sniper rifle, he could have taken one of the three out then provide support to Lion-O and Cheetara. One dead and the other two captured or killed. Lion-O's personal issues and bad judgment blew a big opportunity to take out Mumm-ra's generals.

Lion-o gave orders to save the lizards tygra didn't want to help them. If tygra took orders he could've just used the sniper rifle but he made it clear he didn't want to help those lizards so lion-o goes in alone to take out what he thought was just slithe. If lion-o looked stupid to some for charging in how stupid does tygra look for giving up a vantage point with a sniper rifle to run into the trouble he saw lion-o in

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Tygra gets killed. Then it becomes a two on three in which Cheetara and Lion-O are overpowered, defeated, and killed.

Tygra gets killed. They hold their own until Panthro shows up. He sees Tygra dead. Panthro asks what happen, Cheetara tells him about Lion-O decision that led to this point. Panthro tears into Lion-O for such a stupid decision. Things are much worse for the group after mourning the loss of Tygra. Cheetara becomes distant with Lion-O. The others develop a mistrust in Lion-O since his decision led to the death of Tygra.

Cheetara made the call of the lesser two evils.

Then lion-o can do what rick grimes from walking dead did in the finale and really put his put down that way he'll know exactly were each cat stands

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtulanSama

Actually there was only 1 lizard tank and 3-4 enemy lizards in th scene. In Lion-O's point of view, they could take it down and his intentions were at the right place. If he had seen Addicus and Kaynar, he would probably lay low to gather more info. In ep 12 cats chose stealth(until Kit jumps to save Abburn) because there were too many lizards and elephants were hostages so we know Lion-O is capable to lay low when the odds are against him.

@Singe,
I told this more than enough times, Tygra is a trained warrior. Even I have enough training to dodge the fatal blow and free myself. There is more enough chance for Tygra to survive. Spears actually aren't that dangerous if you don't put enough force behind it. So kaynar would need to pull the spear back to do a decent stab. That would provide Tygra tho time he needs to dodge. After the dodge Kaynar would lose balance... so on and on...

Plus the fact tygra has an armor on. The writing for that fight made tygra and cheetara especially cheetara look real stupid

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Just one left. Better hope he doesn't get sick or whatnot, that would be bad if something happened to Lion-O and he was unable to perform his duties since there would be no one else. If he's dead, that's it game over. No more Thundercat Royal Family and no more Crown.

Lion-O and Tygra both living are better odds than just Lion-O after losing Tygra.

At this point its clear lion-o would've come back

[Sining]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Sure, Lion-O is currently dead. Tygra is alive, to take over. If he was sacrificed in Episode 14, then that would be it for the series.

Yes because if time-travel fiction have taught us ANYTHING at all, it's that changing the past NEVER changes the future. After all, just look at Back to the Future I & II. Oh wait... -_-

Quote:

Sniper Rifle - Pull it out, arm it, get in a position, line up the shot to hit the enemy in a vital spot, stay focus on target, and fire.

Tygra can turn invisible. He could have disappeared and sniped them from a higher location. However the fight didn't give him a chance.

Where are you getting this sniper rifle from? Do you even know what a sniper rifle looks like? Tygra has a handlasergun. He EVEN tries to use it in close combat vs the general in episode 14 instead of shooting with it first. Instead, what's the first weapon he uses when he has the long-range advantage? A whip. Instead of the gun. That's how smart Tygra is.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthie

Okay, after thinking about it, I can see why some people would take offense to this post. So to you, I apologize. I meant no harm because I don't consider anything about the show consequential to life or relationships, but I can understand how those of you who have that level of emotion invested in it can be sensitive to posts that poke fun at your investment. So, once again, I apologize.

oh how I do like faffing about on here

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Yes because if time-travel fiction have taught us ANYTHING at all, it's that changing the past NEVER changes the future. After all, just look at Back to the Future I & II. Oh wait... -_-




Where are you getting this sniper rifle from? Do you even know what a sniper rifle looks like? Tygra has a handlasergun. He EVEN tries to use it in close combat vs the general in episode 14 instead of shooting with it first. Instead, what's the first weapon he uses when he has the long-range advantage? A whip. Instead of the gun. That's how smart Tygra is.

He had a sniper rifle in the beginning of ep 14

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

1) I did not say she “disobeyed” him. You are right; Lion-O did not give her an outright order. She did defy Lion-O though, right in the middle of a battle. He was planning on continuing the fight and he was clearly taken aback by her actions and tried to reasons with her. That would indicate to any rational person what was intended.

Maybe you specifically didn't say she disobeyed him, but other people in this thread have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

2) Slithe seems to decide to kill the Cats after he gets confirmation that the lizards could not find Lion-O’s body. Addicus makes a remark of there not being “anything left of them” and Slithe confirms that saying “I can assure you Addicus, there won’t be.”

Just rewatched again. You're right on that point. I was wrong. But still that just brings the question why did they take them prisoner in the first place? They didn't need them to look for the gauntlet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

Also, you are using the events that took place this episode to justify Cheetara’s actions last episode. Using all available information up to episode 14, Lion-O made the right call while assuming the worst possible outcome. Cheetara was simply too busy cheerleading for Team Tygra.

Everyone keeps saying they were guaranteed death and they would've never be taken prisoner. All I'm saying is that this episode proves there was a chance that they could have been taken prisoner then as well. Cheetara might've gambled a bit with their lives, but the chance existed for them all to come out of it alive (although as prisoners) so she took it.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Right now Tygra is following Slithe, which is just plain stupid. Even if he gives Mumm-Ra the sword he can't use it or remove the stone. Slithe is bound to meet up with the rest of the Lizard army before delivering the sword to Mumm-Ra, so he's making the same mistake Lion-O did. He didn't even have the good sense to take the Thundertank (but I guess the writers needed to leave that for Lion-O to take in order to catch up with the rest of them next episode). I'm also hoping that Mumm-Ra does a sort of reverse of the Trials on the other Thundercats, rather than confronting them with their flaws to make them stronger he ends up using them to break their spirits. Because even though Lion-O isn't perfect he's not the only one this season to screw up.

Why do people keep saying they're not going back to get the tank? The episode ended like a minute after they were freed. We won't know until the next episode if they're going back for the tank or not.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

I happen to think that while his responses to Tygra and Cheetara were emotional, his decision was acceptable. He reasoned that freeing the lizards was the only way to keep to the goal of uniting all animals and keeping up the pressure on Mumm-Ra. The ThunderCats had already taken down two lizard battalions in the episode and Lion-O did not know that Kaynar and Addicus would be there.

I agree that the decision to free the lizards was the right one. But I don't agree that their success with previous lizard battalions meant success here. In the previous battles they had the whole group working together. This time Lion-O was running into the group completely by himself without waiting for any backup.

[SirSapphire]

Bringing in another female character simply for the sake of resolving the triangle is unfair to that character, they should have their own personality outside of "Lion-O's girlfriend." The best way to resolve the triangle is to have Lion-O get over Cheetarah and move on with his life (which it looks like they may do, Lion-O works through a lot of his issues with her in the second trial). He could still be lonely, but shouldn't be moping over her all the time. Only after that should they introduce his possible love interest.
If they bring in Pumyra to be Lion-O's love interest (Which many of us think they are) They should establish her personality before the pair them off, and the reasons she falls for him should be very clear. I've tried to do that myself in my proposed theories for "The Pit" (Wheres Cheetarah fell in love with Tygra over a flower, Pumyra falls for Post-Trials Lion-O because of his inner nobility and sense of self-sacrifice).

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Why do people keep saying they're not going back to get the tank? The episode ended like a minute after they were freed. We won't know until the next episode if they're going back for the tank or not.

Because they're going in the wrong direction. Wilykit's marking of the trail means they're clearly progressing forward, not going back. Besides Lion-O will need some way to catch up with the other Cats once he returns from the Trials. Them forgetting about the tank then becomes very convenient for him.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Bringing in another female character simply for the sake of resolving the triangle is unfair to that character, they should have their own personality outside of "Lion-O's girlfriend." The best way to resolve the triangle is to have Lion-O get over Cheetarah and move on with his life (which it looks like they may do, Lion-O works through a lot of his issues with her in the second trial). He could still be lonely, but shouldn't be moping over her all the time. Only after that should they introduce his possible love interest.
If they bring in Pumyra to be Lion-O's love interest (Which many of us think they are) They should establish her personality before the pair them off, and the reasons she falls for him should be very clear. I've tried to do that myself in my proposed theories for "The Pit" (Wheres Cheetarah fell in love with Tygra over a flower, Pumyra falls for Post-Trials Lion-O because of his inner nobility and sense of self-sacrifice).

I don't see lion-o getting over her anytime soon, the kiss just floored him. Any guy would think he has a chance.

I think Pumyra will only serve as a device for the triangle. Cheetara might be get jealous and they have to fight.

You really don't want L/C.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Assuming the stone works like a tv and you can just view whatever you want.

It worked perfectly well with the Spirit stone in the elephant hut. He didn't even try, it was as if he had forgotten about the sword.

You are picking every little thing apart, but you are forgetting to pick apart what pertains to Lion-O as well. He's not above reproach, he did make bad calls, and any plot holes and writing inconsistencies affect him just as they do the rest.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

At this point the book showed the direction up in plain sight for all of them to see just like before but now for some reason everyone wants to be all negative so even if lion-o used sight beyond sight they weren't going to change what they thought. The fact tygra asks if lion-o knows were he leading them as if lion-o has already been there just shows the mind set of the team as the book showed the direction so just go that direction

The book is known for not being detailed. It pointed to the hut, and the hut was just a big broom closet. When the book shot that beam of light up, it would have been the natural thing to do, and it's what I thought would happen. How come it goes up? We have to go up, but what will we find when we get there?

Is it necessary to arrive to another broom closet before using sight beyond sight? He just learned the skill, he should be using it. (This is not relevant but I know I wouldn't give the sword any time off. Anyone else?) He should have been curious and want to know, instead of sulking and -again- playing the king card. The team was in doubt, why not quell those doubts with SBS? It's there for his use, and he's the only one who can use it.

But no, you do what I say, I say up we go, and the rest is history.

Where do you get the idea that they wouldn't have believed him if he had used SBS? They did when he said they were going back to the elephant village. The only difference now is that Lion-O is behaving, well, like the kid he is.

I am confident the trials will take that out and he'll return to win the minds and hearts of his team to his cause (for the goal is the same but so far he's alone as to how to accomplish it), not just to order them around based on the fact that they just should do everything he says.

[KaleRylan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

They could have military backgrounds, however there is no military structure in the group.

In not a weird sense on the bodyguard, unless Cheetara is not able to protect them both.

Lion-O has made bad calls and in this recent episode. He chose the path, the group got ambushed, and he got killed as a result.

He's dead, Tygra is king, and Cheetara can protect him. All is good.

There is no military structure because of bad writing. I'm not saying that because good writers would make it more military, I'm saying that because good writers would choose. This show wants it both ways and that leads to it making no sense. Take The Last Airbender for example, it has a similar setup to this but no one argues the main group is military because they never act military. But in this, they continuously point out the ranks and positions of each character and talk about following orders and such. And then five minutes later they have everyone ignore their king. It is this lack of clarity that weakens the plot.

The ONLY situation where a bodyguard should protect the next in line over her actual charge is if her charge tells her to, or her charge is OBVIOUSLY not able to be saved. That did not happen here; she abandoned Lion-o to save her boyfriend. They make that clear in the episode. You're arguing a point that not even the writers made.

Yes, but the key is the WHOLE SCENE was written badly. The king acted like an idiot for no reason, his people ignored and insulted him, the fight was badly written and involved everyone forgetting their powers, Cheetara abandoned her job for her boyfriend, etc., etc. There's a point where you stop analyzing a scene and just admit the writers did terribly. I still like the show, and I live in hope that it can realize it's obvious potential, but nearly every episode there's at least one scene that seems to have been written by a twelve year old. And in this episode it was the fight on the cliff.

You aren't seriously doing all this because you're a tygra fan are you? I mean, fair enough, but liking a character shouldn't blind you to poor writing. I want Tygra to grow into a great character as well, kind of the Ken to Lion-o's Ryu, but they can do that without writing Lion-o as a punk.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

There is no military structure because of bad writing. I'm not saying that because good writers would make it more military, I'm saying that because good writers would choose. This show wants it both ways and that leads to it making no sense. Take The Last Airbender for example, it has a similar setup to this but no one argues the main group is military because they never act military. But in this, they continuously point out the ranks and positions of each character and talk about following orders and such. And then five minutes later they have everyone ignore their king. It is this lack of clarity that weakens the plot.

The ONLY situation where a bodyguard should protect the next in line over her actual charge is if her charge tells her to, or her charge is OBVIOUSLY not able to be saved. That did not happen here; she abandoned Lion-o to save her boyfriend. They make that clear in the episode. You're arguing a point that not even the writers made.

Yes, but the key is the WHOLE SCENE was written badly. The king acted like an idiot for no reason, his people ignored and insulted him, the fight was badly written and involved everyone forgetting their powers, Cheetara abandoned her job for her boyfriend, etc., etc. There's a point where you stop analyzing a scene and just admit the writers did terribly. I still like the show, and I live in hope that it can realize it's obvious potential, but nearly every episode there's at least one scene that seems to have been written by a twelve year old. And in this episode it was the fight on the cliff.

You aren't seriously doing all this because you're a tygra fan are you? I mean, fair enough, but liking a character shouldn't blind you to poor writing. I want Tygra to grow into a great character as well, kind of the Ken to Lion-o's Ryu, but they can do that without writing Lion-o as a punk.

Excellent.

I think they are showing that cheetara can't be a cleric and be the girlfriend of tygra at the same time. Which one will she choose.

We can argue if lion-o made the right choice, but she choose to help tygra and lion-o was by himself. You can say in away he died because of it.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

It worked perfectly well with the Spirit stone in the elephant hut. He didn't even try, it was as if he had forgotten about the sword.

You are picking every little thing apart, but you are forgetting to pick apart what pertains to Lion-O as well. He's not above reproach, he did make bad calls, and any plot holes and writing inconsistencies affect him just as they do the rest.

I agree. He should've used SBS.

For all we know, the stone might be in the sky.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

Yes, but the key is the WHOLE SCENE was written badly. The king acted like an idiot for no reason, his people ignored and insulted him, the fight was badly written and involved everyone forgetting their powers, Cheetara abandoned her job for her boyfriend, etc., etc. There's a point where you stop analyzing a scene and just admit the writers did terribly.

Now this I can agree with.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Because they're going in the wrong direction. Wilykit's marking of the trail means they're clearly progressing forward, not going back. Besides Lion-O will need some way to catch up with the other Cats once he returns from the Trials. Them forgetting about the tank then becomes very convenient for him.

Kind of funny how tygra used the tank in 12 and now lion-o will use it.

They like to use mirrors.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Mumm-Ra needs a cleric to try and find a way to remove the spell from the Sword of Omens and he can make her watch him torture the others in order to coerce her?

So agree with this or he could torture her and let tygra watch.

[KaleRylan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Bringing in another female character simply for the sake of resolving the triangle is unfair to that character, they should have their own personality outside of "Lion-O's girlfriend." The best way to resolve the triangle is to have Lion-O get over Cheetarah and move on with his life (which it looks like they may do, Lion-O works through a lot of his issues with her in the second trial). He could still be lonely, but shouldn't be moping over her all the time. Only after that should they introduce his possible love interest.
If they bring in Pumyra to be Lion-O's love interest (Which many of us think they are) They should establish her personality before the pair them off, and the reasons she falls for him should be very clear. I've tried to do that myself in my proposed theories for "The Pit" (Wheres Cheetarah fell in love with Tygra over a flower, Pumyra falls for Post-Trials Lion-O because of his inner nobility and sense of self-sacrifice).

In principal I agree with you completely, but at the same time I've begun narrowing my expectations with this show. It's simply not that well written. Your idea would be best, but for me, just ending the triangle and distracting Lion-o is worth it even if it makes Pumyra an object. I hope that they do better, and I do hope they have him get over Cheetara before he goes for someone else; I would really like this group to be less antagonistic towards each other. You can have group drama without making it seem like they all hate each other.

I so wanted the scene last episode where lion-o says he's happy for them to be true. Because it shows how easily they COULD get along, but then he instantly throws it out. They could at least have him TRY to be happy but then show us in monologue or alone scenes that he's really struggling with it or something, instead of just having him be a dick to both of them.

And that is one of the reasons I'd like some new cats. Maybe Pumyra likes Lion-o because he saves her. Simple as that, she's in his corner. Just having someone he could rely on would be nice. He's completely alone now. In the first 'season' Cheetarah was sort of his 'friend/comrade' but now she's complicated. He needs someone he can rely on without line of succession/age/romance problems. Maybe Bengali? Having a buddy for him would be nice. And Pumyra could either be this or a love interest, or both eventually.

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

I don't see lion-o getting over her anytime soon, the kiss just floored him. Any guy would think he has a chance.

I think Pumyra will only serve as a device for the triangle. Cheetara might be get jealous and they have to fight.

You really don't want L/C.

Lion-O also knows that's not the real Cheetarah, just something the Astral Plane knew he was comfortable with and shaped accordingly. Everything out of the Trials is out of his own mind, the Thunderan slums, the Briar Wood maze and the predatory bird that lives there. Because Lion-O still saw Cheetarah as a flirt and a tease that's how she acted in the AP (the real Cheetarah's actions were flirty too, but it's dialed up a notch or two here).

No, I really don't want Lion-O/Cheetarah. I think it's something that served its purpose and its time to move on.

Regarding Lion-O and Tygra, Lion-Odoes need a buddy, but I think that buddy should be Tygra. In order for this show to move to the next level and become truly great they need to become more than just brothers, they need to be bros, which is something completely different.

[CCDustyV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

In principal I agree with you completely, but at the same time I've begun narrowing my expectations with this show. It's simply not that well written. Your idea would be best, but for me, just ending the triangle and distracting Lion-o is worth it even if it makes Pumyra an object. I hope that they do better, and I do hope they have him get over Cheetara before he goes for someone else; I would really like this group to be less antagonistic towards each other. You can have group drama without making it seem like they all hate each other.

I so wanted the scene last episode where lion-o says he's happy for them to be true. Because it shows how easily they COULD get along, but then he instantly throws it out. They could at least have him TRY to be happy but then show us in monologue or alone scenes that he's really struggling with it or something, instead of just having him be a dick to both of them.

And that is one of the reasons I'd like some new cats. Maybe Pumyra likes Lion-o because he saves her. Simple as that, she's in his corner. Just having someone he could rely on would be nice. He's completely alone now. In the first 'season' Cheetarah was sort of his 'friend/comrade' but now she's complicated. He needs someone he can rely on without line of succession/age/romance problems. Maybe Bengali? Having a buddy for him would be nice. And Pumyra could either be this or a love interest, or both eventually.

Actually that could cause a fun dynamic if they are going for L/C for the final pairing and using T/C as a red herring. Lion O and Pumyra form a close platonic friendship, she's someone he can talk to, vent, and just let himself go with, and vice versa. That used to be Cheetara's "job", till she made it complicated. (which could have been avoided had she been more open to both brothers but I won't get into that) ANNYWAY... Lion O and Pumyra get close, but Cheetara sees them always together, smiling, hugging, laughing. To them, they're just being buddies. Cheetara sees them 'together' and it bugs her.

In most cartoons/animes I've seen, you wanna know how a girl honestly feels for a guy, bring in compatition and observe the reaction. It'll confirm weither or not she truely made her choice yet.

On that same coin, it would also confirm she's 100% sold out to Tygra if she smiles and is happy for them, or even attempts to help them along.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSapphire

Lion-O also knows that's not the real Cheetarah, just something the Astral Plane knew he was comfortable with and shaped accordingly. Everything out of the Trials is out of his own mind, the Thunderan slums, the Briar Wood maze and the predatory bird that lives there. Because Lion-O still saw Cheetarah as a flirt and a tease that's how she acted in the AP (the real Cheetarah's actions were flirty too, but it's dialed up a notch or two here).

No, I really don't want Lion-O/Cheetarah. I think it's something that served its purpose and its time to move on.

I believe in the trails, the cats are telling lion-o how they really feel. He would never listen to them. Now he has to listen to them or he will stay dead. Tygra told him that he could learn something from all of them.

Cheetara would never give lion-o that type of kiss. He only got a peck.

This is how triangles go. Heck some animes have a love triangle the series.

[L08e16o]

I was wondering, it seems like episodes after trials part 2 deal with other characters (Finally).

17. Tyra
18. Kids
19. Cheetara?
20. Panthro?

[Hyre]

In my opinion, writing Lion-o to revert back to his older self after the realization that he was not the object of Cheetarah's affection is...logical. He's had a severe crippling of his ego and he's still a teenager(I think). I felt that Tygra being an ass about stealing the fruit was also appropriate, given the ego BOOST he got. That said, where I felt the writing fell was when he was doing the "Cheetarah" trial, Figment Cheetarah kisses him, and he's reacting to her like she's the real Cheetarah. Even if the stone was using that to manipulate him, for him to not treat the figments as...figments bothers me. Perhaps he's just too immersed in the situation, but it's still very odd and a little disheartening. Also, the "Follow Your Nose" trick in the first one for instincts and the random appearance of a bird that he could ride were breaks in the story for me. If he'd climbed to the top and ran along that, that would have been far more dramatic in my mind(Even though they couldn't show much if any blood from the thorns, he could have winced and groaned, showing that the best path is not always the easiest), and the bird would have been a 'hint' more than a 'tool'.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Disobeying an order is fulfilling her duties ? Its clear cheetara's actions are saying i hurt tygra's feeling let me apologize but on the other hand i hurt lion-o's feelings as well but so what. And the one person who offered lion-o the most support makes her decision to not support him when he needed her most in battle and in looking for this last stone and now questioning things that previously went unquestioned because a certain someone decides to question it. The person who was willing to kill based on an assumption was tygra an a**'s a**

Not to mention jaga gave her a order to look over lion-o.

The more I think about it, this is apart of the love triangle.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

The book is known for not being detailed. It pointed to the hut, and the hut was just a big broom closet. When the book shot that beam of light up, it would have been the natural thing to do, and it's what I thought would happen. How come it goes up? We have to go up, but what will we find when we get there?

Is it necessary to arrive to another broom closet before using sight beyond sight? He just learned the skill, he should be using it. (This is not relevant but I know I wouldn't give the sword any time off. Anyone else?) He should have been curious and want to know, instead of sulking and -again- playing the king card. The team was in doubt, why not quell those doubts with SBS? It's there for his use, and he's the only one who can use it.

But no, you do what I say, I say up we go, and the rest is history.

Where do you get the idea that they wouldn't have believed him if he had used SBS? They did when he said they were going back to the elephant village. The only difference now is that Lion-O is behaving, well, like the kid he is.

I am confident the trials will take that out and he'll return to win the minds and hearts of his team to his cause (for the goal is the same but so far he's alone as to how to accomplish it), not just to order them around based on the fact that they just should do everything he says.

The book led them to the elephant village but the sword showed him the hut as annet told him to look with the swords eye. Now in that same ep they left the tank behind climbed a staircase almost as high as the mountain they were walking up in ep 15 without incident. So now under almost similar circumstances its a problem. When things look a bit challenging the first one to cause doubt is tygra followed by panthro with cheetara being the only voice of support. When the book showed up they all knew that was the direction to go had lion-o used sight beyond sight it would've most likely coincided with the book. Lion- o got angry when the basic motive lets go up and look was questioned after all the stone isn't going to come to them. Now we hear tygra ask lion-o if we know were he is leading them when he knows full well they are heading in that direction to search. He is normal until basic things like that are questioned especially with the intent to provoke

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyre

In my opinion, writing Lion-o to revert back to his older self after the realization that he was not the object of Cheetarah's affection is...logical. He's had a severe crippling of his ego and he's still a teenager(I think). I felt that Tygra being an ass about stealing the fruit was also appropriate, given the ego BOOST he got. That said, where I felt the writing fell was when he was doing the "Cheetarah" trial, Figment Cheetarah kisses him, and he's reacting to her like she's the real Cheetarah. Even if the stone was using that to manipulate him, for him to not treat the figments as...figments bothers me. Perhaps he's just too immersed in the situation, but it's still very odd and a little disheartening. Also, the "Follow Your Nose" trick in the first one for instincts and the random appearance of a bird that he could ride were breaks in the story for me. If he'd climbed to the top and ran along that, that would have been far more dramatic in my mind(Even though they couldn't show much if any blood from the thorns, he could have winced and groaned, showing that the best path is not always the easiest), and the bird would have been a 'hint' more than a 'tool'.

We need to just call it plot convenience.

Hey, need to start the triangle, flashback.

We need lion-o to die, no cats are around.

We need them to escape, tygra thinks up something unlike 14.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Kind of funny how tygra used the tank in 12 and now lion-o will use it.

They like to use mirrors.

Its stupid that the tank is still going to be there it should've been destroyed or at least searched and the book and anything useful found in it and taken seeing how a group went back to search for lion-o's body. Or is the tank now able to be cloaked from plain sight

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Its stupid that the tank is still going to be there it should've been destroyed or at least searched and the book and anything useful found in it and taken seeing how a group went back to search for lion-o's body. Or is the tank now able to be cloaked from plain sight

Plot convenience.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyre

In my opinion, writing Lion-o to revert back to his older self after the realization that he was not the object of Cheetarah's affection is...logical. He's had a severe crippling of his ego and he's still a teenager(I think). I felt that Tygra being an ass about stealing the fruit was also appropriate, given the ego BOOST he got. That said, where I felt the writing fell was when he was doing the "Cheetarah" trial, Figment Cheetarah kisses him, and he's reacting to her like she's the real Cheetarah. Even if the stone was using that to manipulate him, for him to not treat the figments as...figments bothers me. Perhaps he's just too immersed in the situation, but it's still very odd and a little disheartening. Also, the "Follow Your Nose" trick in the first one for instincts and the random appearance of a bird that he could ride were breaks in the story for me. If he'd climbed to the top and ran along that, that would have been far more dramatic in my mind(Even though they couldn't show much if any blood from the thorns, he could have winced and groaned, showing that the best path is not always the easiest), and the bird would have been a 'hint' more than a 'tool'.

That kind of how it went in the OS lion-o vs cheetara trail but they had the whole show to do that one trail as to all the trail being done in two ep

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Plot convenience.

Yes there seems to be a lot of that going on.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

The book led them to the elephant village but the sword showed him the hut as annet told him to look with the swords eye. Now in that same ep they left the tank behind climbed a staircase almost as high as the mountain they were walking up in ep 15 without incident. So now under almost similar circumstances its a problem. When things look a bit challenging the first one to cause doubt is tygra followed by panthro with cheetara being the only voice of support. When the book showed up they all knew that was the direction to go had lion-o used sight beyond sight it would've most likely coincided with the book. Lion- o got angry when the basic motive lets go up and look was questioned after all the stone isn't going to come to them. Now we hear tygra ask lion-o if we know were he is leading them when he knows full well they are heading in that direction to search. He is normal until basic things like that are questioned especially with the intent to provoke

We don't know that, because it did not happen. What happened is that he did not use SBS to confirm the books's directions and perhaps gather a better insight. You justify his decisions with the actions of the others, but if he had used SBS he might have convinced them. Yes, we don't know that either because it did not happen. But that's what he obviously needs to do, convince them, not just get angry and bark orders which makes everyone feel discontent. Please note that this time it wasn't just Tygra (which wouldn't have surprised anyone), it was everyone.

[Covenant]

The Cats have no confidence in Lion-O. Although it seemed like the Lord of the Thundercats was learning from his experiences in previous episodes, after seeing Tygra and Cheetara kiss it all went to crap. Now Lion-O is just a whiny bitch and the rest of the team are fed up with him. Hopefully he'll be a bit more mature when he comes back to life, although by then Tygra will have established himself as a real leader.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

We don't know that, because it did not happen. What happened is that he did not use SBS to confirm the books's directions and perhaps gather a better insight. You justify his decisions with the actions of the others, but if he had used SBS he might have convinced them. Yes, we don't know that either because it did not happen. But that's what he obviously needs to do, convince them, not just get angry and bark orders which makes everyone feel discontent. Please note that this time it wasn't just Tygra (which wouldn't have surprised anyone), it was everyone.

The other seem to not want to go before he even gave the order to go. They've already done something similar before without question so what merits they questions now. And yes they even followed him in ep 3 so now there is a problem with things being too dangerous consistency would be nice

[SirSapphire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant

The Cats have no confidence in Lion-O. Although it seemed like the Lord of the Thundercats was learning from his experiences in previous episodes, after seeing Tygra and Cheetara kiss it all went to crap. Now Lion-O is just a whiny bitch and the rest of the team are fed up with him. Hopefully he'll be a bit more mature when he comes back to life, although by then Tygra will have established himself as a real leader.

Or at least no more or less than Lion-O, despite his posturing.

[Balgus82]

Personally if I was Lion-O, after hearing everyone's reservations on climbing the cliff, what I would've done is first use SBS to see where the stone was. Then if it still looked like it was up on the cliff I would've sent Kit and Kat on their hoverboards (or borrowed them and went myself) to scout it out before sending the whole group up.

[Singe]

Why wasn't SBS used? Lion-O can only get a clear message while he is calm and focused which the Elephant Monk explained. As of right now, he wouldn't be able to get the full use since he has Cheetara and Tygra kissing in his head.

It goes further to prove that Lion-O is the one allowing such an unimportant issue to hinder his ability to complete their mission.

[AdamofEternia]

at times i question if these thundercats really give a damn about uniting the animals and saving their world from mum-ra. the freaking book of omens pointed them the right way but for some insane reason they start to question whether they're going the right way. i believe there was no reason to question liono and especially the book of omens. since when the does the book of omens lie about something. i know liono can be a brat most of the time but in this particular situation he was right, heck they all saw the book point upwards. i would not be surprised if tygra doubted liono but the rest of the cats doing the same makes no sense. cheetara especially had no reason to complain because her of all people should understand how powerful the book of omens is. also ever since cheetara got with tygra, all the support/advice she used to give liono has been cut off and she seems to talk to him anyway now.

[Chique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

at times i question if these thundercats really give a damn about uniting the animals and saving their world from mum-ra. the freaking book of omens pointed them the right way but for some insane reason they start to question whether they're going the right way. i believe there was no reason to question liono and especially the book of omens. since when the does the book of omens lie about something. i know liono can be a brat most of the time but in this particular situation he was right, heck they all saw the book point upwards. i would not be surprised if tygra doubted liono but the rest of the cats doing the same makes no sense. cheetara especially had no reason to complain because her of all people should understand how powerful the book of omens is. also ever since cheetara got with tygra, all the support/advice she used to give liono has been cut off and she seems to talk to him anyway now.

Cheetara wanted Lion-O to think before leaping. Like she said, the book can be cryptic. The obvious answer may not be the right answer.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant

The Cats have no confidence in Lion-O. Although it seemed like the Lord of the Thundercats was learning from his experiences in previous episodes, after seeing Tygra and Cheetara kiss it all went to crap. Now Lion-O is just a whiny bitch and the rest of the team are fed up with him. Hopefully he'll be a bit more mature when he comes back to life, although by then Tygra will have established himself as a real leader.

That could be a problem if Lion-O was gone for a long period of time. As it is, we suspect Tygra won't be "king" for more than a day, and even if it was more, it wouldn't make a difference. They will be happy to have him back and Tygra will return to Lion-O what is his... along with a few jabs for dying in the first place, offer a few derogatory comments on the way he may have saved the day, you know, being his royal snarkiness and all.

[Eclipse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

The other seem to not want to go before he even gave the order to go. They've already done something similar before without question so what merits they questions now. And yes they even followed him in ep 3 so now there is a problem with things being too dangerous consistency would be nice

You bet

As for why now, I think his latest attitude is just the drop that made the cup run over. This has been building for a while, and what could be excused at first apparently can't anymore. Whatever. I'm not the writer's keeper, we just have to work with what we're given.

What's obvious to me is that they don't want to blindly follow him, and they shouldn't. A true leader is not somebody who is followed and obeyed just because of a birthright.

[Singe]

It's not a matter of questioning the Book of Omens, but the decisions and methods Lion-O uses to complete the quest at hand.

The lives of the group rely on them working together and their trust in the capabilities of the leader to handle the job.

Right now, Lion-O isn't a great leader. He's still learning on the job and lacks the discipline to keep a cool head. So more often than not, he'll make rookie mistakes and bad calls which under these circumstances is more dangerous, risky, and costly; since lives are on the line.

[Big Snarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singe

Why wasn't SBS used? Lion-O can only get a clear message while he is calm and focused which the Elephant Monk explained. As of right now, he wouldn't be able to get the full use since he has Cheetara and Tygra kissing in his head.

It goes further to prove that Lion-O is the one allowing such an unimportant issue to hinder his ability to complete their mission.

Really?? I would've thought he didn't use sight beyond sight because the writers wrote it that way because he has been shown using sight beyond sight when he was angry and frustrated with the sword

[Tracer]

It seems like all they ever do is criticise Lion-o, even when he's right. It bugs the crap out of me the way they were all ganging up on him at the candyfruit tree. If they have a better solution voice it instead of complaining the whole way. I also love how Panthro waits until they are halfway up the mountain to say this could be an ambush. Half of what these writers come up with completely idiotic and defies logic. Honestly the only ones that don't annoy me at this point are the kittens. Hopefully everyone will learn to appreciate Lion-o a little more when he comes back. Of course I'm sure they will go the other way with "Hey Tygra was a better leader than you" because its more DRAMATIC. At the rate they are going I almost hope the show gets canned. With that said, I did enjoy the first two trials.