i missed new thundercat ep
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Also, there's only 219 screen caps. This one was in the list twice. |
Cheetara should dump Tygra and quit the team at this point. It seems there isn't anything for her to stick with the group except scorn and hardship.
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Even Dan Norton himself "admitted NS 'Cheetara's wrongness' ".:D _______________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint. |
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I'll just say I'd rather have a flawed character than a flat character.
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Cheetara was boring and flat for the first 13 episodes of this series. Just dull and completely predictable. Nothing engaging about the character at all. All she did was encourage Lion-O when he was feeling down. That's it. She was the stereotypical female lead, only there to emotionally support the male lead. She made no real connection with the audience, which is why so many feel no objection to treating her like a ball to bounce between the two brothers. Some of you may not like the way she did it, but confessing to Tygra was finally something that she did for herself. Sure she did it to settle some of the tension between the brothers, but ultimately she decided that being with Tygra was something she wanted to do. It's something she has chosen for herself, finally NOTHING TO DO WITH LION-O. If we're going to complain about how the lead female is written, then lets be honest. Her choice of boyfriend is not what makes her poorly written. It's the fact that the authors have given you no reason to give two shits about her, other than her connection with the male leads. Our inability to empathize with her, or connect with her is what makes her a subpar character. We see no value in her as a person. Who cares if she can fight, this is an action cartoon, everyone has some level of combat ability. Up until now, she's had no faults. She's be written off as a perfect spot free character without any problems to work on. There was no where for her to go. Up until 13, what could any of us say about Cheetara's flaws or complications? She stays in the background because there is nothing for us to address. Romance is not a problem. Yes its stereotypical and predictable, but it doesn't have to be a problem. Not as far as development. Oh wow look, Cheetara may actually have a flaw now. She can't think straight because she is being pulled between love and duty. Yeah I would have liked something else, but its better than a totem pole with tits. Cheetara before 13 could have been replaced with a tape recorder. As of now, I see the potential for her to GROW into something more. As for the anorexic ho thing, the creators are not perfect. They can say stupid shit too. As for Singe's reply: Cheetara not wanting to see her boyfriend get his head lobbed off is not a problem. boyfriend or not, THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO STICK TOGETHER. I think Lion-O sacrificing Tygra is worse than Cheetara wanting to save him. Don't forget, the three of them were in danger because Lion-O wanted to be an angry jerk. He should have been happy that they even bothered to follow him after he told them to stay behind. She failed to protect Lion-O not because she didn't try, but because she was being held hostage. She wasn't just standing around shooting the breeze. What sound reason did she have to believe Lion-O survived that fall? The word of a emotionally distraught 8 year old? Like she said, the time for mourning would come later. Now its time for the TCats to finish what Lion-O started, so that his death is not in vain. Oh yeah, Cheetara was consistent before 13. Consistently boring. Her lack of development is just as detrimental to her character as a potential derailment. |
I was a little disappointed in both parts of the trials, but can live with it. That Lion-O failed and still lived, which was fine, but then there were no consequences, so I chalked it up to being a kids show and they couldn't really let him die. The Tygra challenge was pretty good and because of their ongoing conflict, figured Lion-O would fail that one. In the living world, having Tygra not rise to the challenge of leader was a bit disappointing, after all he was the one who trained his entire life to be a leader..but then again, I know he was expected to willingly follow Lion-O, so Tygra's faith in his abilities had to be shaken. Oh well, I'm not sure these eps really did anything to advance the story but they were still pretty nice visually. I'm ready for the next ep. :D
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I remember reading early interviews with the creators regarding this show. The way they talked, they seemed they were trying to make a "young-adult" or a "more mature" cartoon show.
When doing so, I imagine that you would need to be consistent with your characters. Futurama, Family Guy, and other comedy cartoon shows can have characters acting one way an episode and a completely different way another episode because of the genre. If you're being serious however, than characters need to have a set personality and (pending alien mind control) act within their parameters barring outside stimulus. First of all, I don't like blaming Cheetara for my hatred of everything from episode 13 and onward. I DO blame the writer's for using her as a spoon to sir up the drama that frankly was not necessary or welcome. Trust me, I would RATHER be blaming Tygra! Unfortunately though, Tygra has been the most consistent alongside Lion-O (save occasionally forgetting his previous life lessons) in that he's still a smug Jack-Ass with a "reported" soft side (do not give me the *he probably had it hard as a kid* reasoning, the show has yet to make me buy it) and he hasn't strayed too far from these parameters. Cheetara was the mediator between Tygra and Lion-O, the voice of reason when they started butting heads. She was the body guard who took the entire group as her charge. She was the one telling Lion-O he could when everyone had/or still was telling him he can't. Now what is she? Surrendering herself to the generals to ensure ONLY Tygra's safety? Constantly worrying about Tygra, the capable warrior, instead of the welfare of Lion-O, her king, or welfare of the team as whole? Hell if she had a moment in the show when she said "you know, I've devoted my life to the service of others without focusing on what I want for the majority of my young life. Is this really my entire life? My future? is this really what I want?" Then I would have bought it as development (questionable development but development none the less) and wouldn't be here on this forum complaining. Also ( I really am sorry, I have just really had a lot on my mind), Lion-O willing to keep fighting when Tygra is captured, MAY have had a flavoring of malice due to the love triangle, but, given who they were up against, it was probably their only way out alive (save a Panthro intervention). My blame is on the writing. Maybe if the show was guaranteed a 52 episode run, they would have spaced all this out with development. As such, now it's make it or break it. To their credit, I have never been following a show THIS closely (even if it is for the wrong reasons) I did like this episode and can't wait for the next, because honestly, I can't predict what's going to happen next (for better or worse). |
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I really believe the writers didn't have the time to put all that in this episode. There was a lot of stuff going on. |
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We will find out about tygra next (native son) and I think Tygra's relationship with lion-o will grow in a good way. |
I do think some people think of the Thundercats female characters as objects. I would love for them to have more female characters in the show so their only representation is not Cheetara and Wilykit. Unfortunately, this show is man-fest so far. They are not above criticism for their deviations, but their flips have been for moments or singular episodes. Cheetara flipped on a 12 + episode established personality (boring as some people may think it was, this course of action was not a fix), which is why I bring it up. I think Kit's doing good so far, and I hope Pumrya is interesting as well. (Once again, I respect everyone's personal opinion. This is just mine and I never wish to intentionally give anyone grief)
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I hate comparing it to other series (cause I know there's always a variable not considered in these kinds of comparisons) but that's why I liked Avatar The Last Airbender, it spread it story so well in order to tell the tale, take time for the characters, have a fight or some action, and rap it up in a way that would allow the writers to revisit it in a later episode if they wanted to. Never once do I remember an episode feeling rushed, or lacking something, if it did it's probably because they were going to go into it further on a later ep. I really wish the Thundercats writers would take a few notes from them. On a different note, I was surprised to see that Will Friedle wrote this episode. |
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This episode I didn't know what to do with myself. Lion-O was IMPRESSIVE AS HELL! AND HE LOOKED GOOD DOING IT TOO! This is so foreign to me, I don't even know what to think about it. I'm terrified he's going to revert back to that whiny little punk who wants everything his way . |
Some people may call me on my Lion-O love influencing my reactions to these episodes.
Like "Oh, you don't like Tygra, well if Cheetara got together with Lion-O at the end of episode 13 you wouldn't be complaining" Unfortunately, that's does ring with some truth. If she did, it would be a relationship based on the past episodes providing spaced out instances of their development. I am sorry, but the flashbacks were not enough justification. However, if the same instances occurred only flipped (Lion-O for Tygra) the complete flip in judgement, priorities, and actions, would still seem rather un-becoming of her character. I would probably still be knocking her for choosing to surrender to "save" Lion-O versus keeping her and Tygra alive As for the Tygra and Cheetara relationship, some people say "She was just being sisterly, or comforting. Lion-O shouldn't have read that much into it." I challenge them with this: Take every instance of this love triangle and gender swap it. What if Cheetara, a man, was acting the way SHE did with a Girl Lion-O (the exact same, motion for motion, word for word) Not to make assumptions, but I think more people would come out in defense of Lion-O and condemning Man-tara. What do you think? |
Wow, another good episode! I was kinda hoping Lion-O would get over his thing with Tygra in the trial, but it's nice to see him get over it in the real world. And Kaynar & Addicus still continue to scare me with all the talk of eating other sentient characters. Overall, very enjoyable.
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I think we will finally get what we wanted for a while, more character development from the other cast. |
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The one big let down flop for Cheetara so far is no episode focus on her.
Instead with get these little bits from other episodes to build up her character. In season one she was the role of making Lion-O's and Tygra's tails stiff up. Maybe Jaga can get off his dead end and say something about her. Even Lion-O didn't bother to ask Jaga about the whole thing Cheetara told him. |
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_______________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint. |
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Tygra, Cheetara, and the kids are overdue. |
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The only problem I had was cheetara was like no big deal jaga was up in the sky. |
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This is where once again the staff could learn a thing from the last airbender, a show known for its strong, consistent female characters. Characters that weren't just drama bombs. As I've said several times, I WANTED her to end up with Tygra. That is not the problem. The problem isn't who she ended up with, or that she's not interested in Lion-o. It's that the whole turn of events has been written like crap. And as someone pointed out, she's suddenly forgotten to be supportive. Her argument that she wasn't leading him on is that she was nice to him because she honestly supports him as king. Okay, then WHY did she totally STOP supporting him when she chose Tygra? Her argument would make a lot more sense if her whole personality hadn't shifted. |
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But Jelenic's 'hate' for Lion-O is not so questionable.:eek: _______________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint. |
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That said, I'm also terrified he's going to revert, because the trouble with this show is usually not that an individual episode or story is bad, it's that it's just so random it never builds on anything. |
Kaynar, Atticus, and Slyde locked up together in a cell. First one to bend over loses.
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And your gender double-standard is an interesting point. Had the roles been flipped, a man doing those things would have been immediately assumed to be romantic, where a girl can be 'sisterly.' |
Last note, I swear, I am done for the night.
A lot of People say they want Lion-O to get together with Pumyra to smooth over this triangle debacle. I am sorry but........no. The writer's show they can build it but they can not deliver. Also....it's Pumyra. She had the least amount of screen time of any of the new Thundercats is the OS. Props to the creators if they want to do something different but seriously she's second string Thundercat material. To do that I feel would....just not feel right. Like Max Payne, the Mark Wahlberg movie. They took a B-list goon from the game's story and made him the primary antagonist of the movie to space the overall story between two films (the second which better not happen EVER). I also wouldn't feel it would be true to the OS, throwing a romance that was never there or intended, or really even popularized with the OG OS fans (Don't look at me like that. Producers and creators stated they WOULD have had a Lion-O/Cheetara romance in the OS if time/higher up would have allowed it) If she's done right, more power to Pumyra. But if a backup romance plot line is what they honestly have in store for her....I am not looking forward to it at all. |
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She has never said Lion-O couldn't be a good leader, or that he was incapable of defeating Mumm-Ra. He had a bad idea, and so she told him so. When has she ever encouraged one of his bad ideas? In episode 14 when Lion-O confronted her about her actions, she told him she still sees the potential in him to be great. She has not stopped believing in him. She wasn't only worried about Tygra. She showed up to the match because Lion-O was there. We can't really say she sacrificed Lion-O. He has the sword (..he dropped it..), Tygra was being held at knife point with his body wrapped in a whip. I'm not saying her logic wasn't flawed. If it was meant to be a flaw, then great. Lets work on fixing it through story line and development . Where is she CONSTANTLY worrying over Tygra? Even so, it's her boyfriend. Whose expecting her to act exactly the way she did before 13? Once again who she was before really had no ideas or opinion about anything other than Lion-O. I'm not saying she does or doesn't think about herself. I'm just stating what we've seen, and since the premier all of Cheetara's dialog has been about supporting Lion-O. She needs more than just that if we are expected to become attached to her. Her making a choice or having an opinion on something other than Lion-O, is a step in the right direction as far as growth. I agree, consistency is important. But so is growth and development. Actively disliking a character is better than having no opinion on them at all. Also, this show has a different format than Family Guy. Those characters will never change or grow into something different from who they were 30 episodes ago. They don't develop. It doesn't matter if you watch episode 20 before you watch episode 7, because Meg will still be a love starved middle child, and Peter will still be an idiot with the thought process of an 8 year old. They are not aiming for an end, because there is no "end".As for Thundercats, we are expecting these characters to have changed and grown between now and episode 52. It's not a question of maybe the love triangle got to Lion'O's head. It did. The Lion-O we got during season one would NEVER sacrifice his own brother. He would have found another way. It was pure malice. Do you watch Young Justice? Superboy started off really hostile and hot headed. A hand full of episodes later and he's able to think with his head more. It's not just punch punch punch! " There's a time to go in strong, and a time to go in smart." Megan started off really unsure of herself and insecure. She was also dumbstruck by Superboy. Episode 3 Megan would never tell Superboy to lay off, but episode 12 Megan sure did! |
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That doesn't mean do everything he says; wise advisers also need to point out to a king when he's wrong, but not rudely. He's still the king. |
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Reboots do not, and should not be copies of the original. Do you want to watch the exact same story with the exact same characters, except now you have an updated look? That's...limiting. Is Star Trek 2009 the same as Star Trek:OS ? Are the characters the exact same people? Do they have the same relationships? As long as the spirit of the two remain in sync, the little stuff shouldn't have to be exactly the same. Jelenic should strive to make his own mark, not copy and paste. |
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I'm no political buff, but isnt that the point of checks and balances? Also did'nt Kings and the churches have some sort of check and balance as well( not a history buff either) ? |
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Secondly, I totally disagree that disliking a character is better than no opinion. Not if it's a HERO. You dislike villains. Disliking the heroes is a good way to get people to stop watching a show. You NEVER want your viewers to actively dislike a hero if you can help it. Be mad at them? Disagree with a decision? whatever. But liking them fundamentally is key to getting your viewers through those times when they ARE mad at the hero. If you don't like them you're not going to care about the show that long. Quote:
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Heck, if a man is constantly did all those things, and I liked him, I would probably be in a similar situation as Lion-O. I just wouldn't act like a butt when he told me he wasn't into me that way. Just to play with the gender stereotypes, women don't typically treat men there interested in, like Cheetara does Lion-O. Most women want to see that their potential mate can hold his own. This is why her constant encouragement and defense came off sisterly. I always thought women wanted Alpha males, not dependent ones. |
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That is EXACTLY the point of checks and balances. That is why modern nations invented those and no longer have absolute monarchs. To try and avoid having dopes as our leaders(the success is questionable). As for kings and the church; if by checks and balances you mean they would periodically go to war and attempt to murder each other, then yeah sure they had checks and balances. |
Chique, you make a valid point. I guess to me she seemed like the one who wanted to smooth things over between everyone and not rock the boat. I guess I just saw her as a mediator of sorts. That's not to say she never disagreed or never had her own opinion.
You are true in saying characters need depth. However, hers came across as "Where did that come from?" A fault in not having a Cheetara centered episode or a personal history flashback that wasn't used for the triangle as of yet. Or really a whole lot of dialogue for that matter now that I think about it. Once again, not her fault, the writing. I would be interested in hearing where you think her character growth is heading for if this the mid-point of the show. "The Lion-O we got during season one would NEVER sacrifice his own brother." True but, when had a situation, where he had to choose between certain death (which it was) and the well being of his comrade (without any sort of alternate option available) came up before in season one? Thinking on that now, I think it would be interesting for Lion-O to have to deal with the consequences of such a choice in a future episode (IE, choosing to save himself and the others over someone's life. Hopefully it won't be his brother) Finally, no I do not watch Young Justice, but I know of it. I read some comics and the weird DC continuity perturbs me (IE Dick Grayson, Wally West, and Conner Kent being some of the primary members when the comic Young Justice was started by Superboy, Tim Drake, and Impulse) (Also Zatanna is bout the same age as robin when in the comics she's actually closer to Batman's age?) The animation and writing I think are well done but....I think I am too used to the DC cartoon continuity of previous shows like Batman/Superman adventures and JLU. Also I can't find myself liking any of the characters and trust me when I say Dick Grayson is MY BOY! When you can't get me to root for Dick Grayson like a high school cheerleader, you must be doing something wrong but so help me I do not know what that is. |
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ALL MY FAULT. |
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your second point I basically agree, and wish Lion-o would get over it. Your third point is getting kind of a stereotype-y. You may be right, but I don't know many single females that would treat a single male near their age in 'sisterly' fashion either. Because such things would likely cause misunderstandings and quite possibly be taken romantically. |
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I think it was Henry. Didn't the church prevent him from doing stuff? No, ok I'm stupid. Sorry. |
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As for romance with her, I personally would like it because I'm a bit of a sucker for those things and I would like the hero to get a romance, but I want it well done and I hope Pumyra has a cool personality and is not just a function of Lion-o. They could still keep her the doctor though. Having a cool, capable doctor would be badass. |
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