Thundercats 2011 vs (Enter Cartoon Here)
 

For those who talk of fillers and and disappointment (and I mean no offense here simply curious) what cartoon do you hold up as the gold standard of animation and storytelling? Please respond......

[QUOTE=Lord Lion O;10125]For those who talk of fillers and and disappointment (and I mean no offense here simply curious) what cartoon to you hold up as the gold standard of animation and storytelling? Please respond.
DRAGON BALL Z>THUUNDERCATS

Oh lawdy. :o

[QUOTE=Pinero;10140]No offense but NO WAY!

People actually complained about that? lol :rolleyes:

That was what made the 2002 version so much more interesting, rewarding and fun to watch, IMO. And jeez, Adam/He-Man got plenty of proper development - they just allowed everyone else to have an abundance of it too - something the original series sorely lacked. Who wants nothing but He-Man himself every week? That's where the rest of the title, "and the Masters of the Universe" comes from, and this version sought to live up to such a storytelling promise by giving the rest of the cast an equal amount of depth.

The only complaint I had about the 2002 version was that Cartoon Network gave it the predictable short shrift and cancelled it far too soon. There was so much more life in that iteration. Another 2 seasons at least, maybe more. We didn't even get the full-on awesomeness of The Horde, dagnabbit!

That said, I hope they learned a thing or two from that situation and let this new TC series breathe for a long time to come. It deserves it.

[QUOTE=Lord Lion O;10143]GO BACK AND LOOK ATHE DBZ WHEN VEGETA AND NAPPA CAME TO EARTH AND LOST BUT WARNED GOKU ABOUT FRIEZE AND THEY SET OUT TO GO WHERE FRIEZA AT WHICH INTRODUCES THE FREIZE STORY>>THUNDERCATS.. DBZ TOOK A DOWNFALL I AGREE BUT VEGETA N FRIEZA SAGA WILL KNOCK TCATZ OUT THE BOX.. IM SORRY, AND I LIVE TCATZ MORE DEN THE AVERAGE

[QUOTE=Pinero;10140]Um... no. lol :p

And dbz actaully have killings and more of a emotional story line then thundercats

I'm a HUGE DBZ fan.

The anime had some of the worst cases of filler known to mankind.

Yeah. And I don't think anyone's gonna take that whole thing seriously...

Again the equation was animation+story.......sorry doesn't hold up.
I'm going on a limb to say that if the story continues to grow and things continue to get better....thundercats has the opportunity to become the greatest modern cartoon. Gold star

Loved masters of the universe 2003. Cartoon network and poor product placement by Mattel killed it before it had a chance to be really really incredible. Here's hoping bandai and wb can do better.

story line? u got to be smoking.. this is only ep 4 and u claiming its story line can be golden.. sorry but dbz story line on the frieza saga out beats tcats by a long shot RIGHT NOW.. i say right now in capital cuz who knows wuts going to unfold with tcats..

Possibly you don't understand the word "if". However laying that aside if you seriously think dbz is the gold standard of animation+story....smoking or not I feel sorry for you

you must never seen dbz thoroughly to even mention story line wise.. yes tcats animation is way better bur when a cartoon as great as dbz was you throw the graphics out the window.. let me enlighten you

DBZ (Dragon Ball Z) Goku Turns Super Saiyan For the First Time (SSJ) HD 720p - YouTube

goku ssj1>>>>:p

One last time....in a cartoon you cannot discount the ANIMATION since that is the vehicle and meduim for the story. I appreciate your affection for dbz but the fact you concede the animation is not up to par with TC eliminates one half of the equation...story+animation. I'm confident that one of the reasons dbz had the long run it did besides the strong story is that it was realitivley cheap to make. If the TC was presented in prime time with a story 100 times better with the same quality of animation and muscial score not to mention voice acting it would be cancelled after the first episode. Not to mention the people who would be having a flat out fit on this and other boards

dbz killing scene>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHuZr5VPZFM

if we talking overall, anybody will tell you dbz over tcats. when dbz 1st started it had a storyline from alpha to omega. the os tcats didnt have a story line unless you include the movies or exodus ep1 up to a few more eps following, then thats when tcats lost its storyline.. tcatz my fav personally bcuz thats what i grew up on.but if im going to sit and watch a cartoon on a daily on to on basics i only see dbz in that lane.. this new tcatz is clearly making up for the os (out of loop) story line

Never mentioned os thundercats just the new series

new series just begun so you cant compare it to the 300 plus eps dbz has, if you a new comer to dbz it will grasp u by force lol but i got tired of it...

I've just never gotten what the big deal with DBZ is/was. I've tried repeatedly to watch it and reach some epiphany on what it is that makes so many people love it so much, but it's never happened for me. And I watch a LOT of other anime, so it's certainly not the genre - I just don't get the appeal of THIS series. IMO, it's just a lot of screaming and grunting, veins bulging, muscles flexing, necks stretching and so on and so forth, lol. The animation and character designs are nothing to write home about, and I find the "story" uncompelling and uninteresting. There's just no real hook to it, IMO. But that's all it is - an opinion. And I'm perfectly entitled to it.

And FWIW the new TC has featured plenty of "killing" so far. I'd call the tragic murder of Claudus, along with the slaughter of practically their entire species a pretty fair representation of death and tragedy in this series. And that's only a mere 2 episodes in. Just because this show's creators have to abide by a certain measure of standards and practices guidelines and not show someone getting sliced into a hundred little pieces or entire crowds of people dying on screen doesn't mean you don't accept the scope and obvious ramifications of what's happened in the story. In essence, you need not be gratuitous to get a simple point across. If the story is well written enough, viewers of all ages and intelligences will grasp the meaning of what has happened and why.

DBZ is incredibly boring and poorly paced. I liked it when I was a child but looking back it is awful. DBZ Kai has better pacing, but whatever. I always will prefer YuYu Hakusho, since it wasn't boring.
Any ways, Transformers Beast Wars is one of my standards. The 3d models from back then are primitive, but the actual animation was well done and showed a lot of emotion and character. The third season of Digimon, also known as digimon tamers, was really well done as well, as far as a show with a limited budget that had to go across about 50 episodes.. The series of 7 films known as Kara no Kyokai, "The Garden of Sinners", shows the potential in non linear story telling and has breath taking visuals and animation.
Edit: Flounder! How could I forget Gargoyles! I love that show. Well animated, intricately told story lines, expansive mythos, great cast of characters, well paced... and then the third season happened. Darn.

Amen to that. I love YuYu (probably one of my all-time fave animes, period) and find it to have all the qualities sorely lacking in something like DBZ. All the hard-hitting violence and action is there, but - gasp - with characters that have been properly developed into people I actually CARE about and am invested in when they enter such situations of strife. The Dark Tournament saga is one of the most amazing and engaging arcs of any anime series ever. Just positively stellar stuff.

every cartoon show has filler, but this cartoon has one thing that most filler episodes do not, and character development, that STAYS developed!

dragon ball Z is ok, but the series is way too longly drawn out with filler, mostly pointless filler that you just want to fast forward or skip.

i mean look at the episode of dragon ball z Kai, where cell becomes "perfect" cell, they spent the entire last half of the episode, a whole 10 MINUTES of him becoming perfect, nothing BUT that.

not a punch slap, or what ever afterwards.

that is the problem with a lot of anime, they spend the entire episode building up to some action, and then when the action is finally ABOUT to start, like in Inuyasha, or DBZ, you have the credits roll.

and then the next episode! you have a little bit more action, followed by a bunch of more pointless scenes, and then more action right before the credits.

Agreed!

To say that quanity always always superior to quality is short sighted. Of course 88 minutes of something can be better than 6060.

its no use of talking about it if you never watch dbz from the first ep to the end.. its no use, storyline concept was way better and thats just that!

Thundercats is, imho, by far one of the best show's I've seen in quite some time. As for comparing it to DBZ, I've never liked DBZ. I can't really comment on any story it may or may not have had, but I honestly find it very off-putting, and to this day can't finish an entire episode. On the other hand, the new Thundercats show is something I can see myself re-watching several times, and the same even goes for the original.

Now, comparing it to TFP... Thundercats still wins, but by far less of a margin than compared to DBZ. If it weren't for the constant breaks, the loooong wait for toys, and my nostalgia for everything Thundercats, it would be tied with TFP.

First off are you talking about your perception of the story line of dbz or the actual execution of it? Execution being characterized of course by acting and animation. Maybe what you fill in for the series in your mind is better but again it doesn't hold up....period...good enough cartoon for what it was, but what it was is not worthy to be compared to what is, in the new thundercats.

dbz, story? what story? dbz's story is little more then; A big bad guy shows up; who no one can defeat, until they all get stronger, and then after 30 episodes of watching the "not goku or gohan" characters get beat up by the villains then we get to watch goku or gohan fight, after they have been missing due to being hurt, or dead or something lol.

dbz got SO far away from the original idea of the series, which was collecting DRAGON BaLLS and making wishes around them, that they didn't even get BACK to that until dragon ball GT, that very few people actually liked.

and as for the death comments, sure dbz had death, but they'd always find away to bring that character back, even the villains were still "around" in the spirit world, or what ever lol.

in only 4 episodes of thundercats, we have had mulitple deaths, genocide of an entire race. the thundercats went from being the "top" predator, to an endangered species in ONE episode. and every episode after that we have had DEATH all around. especially in the latest episode.

the problem with dbz is it really recycled it's plot lines every season, even to the point where they even recycled the villains.

Buu is basically just Cell, repeated, both were basically immortal and can reform when they're hurt, or damaged, both eat people to gain more powers, and both required goku and the others to "get more powerful" just to defeat him.

I have seen the majority of dragon ball z, the original, the movies and the gt series, the series is ok, and worth watching, but series like dragon ball Kai only proved on how much filler, and useless junk was in that series.

sure the thundercats has had a few episodes of filler so far, but at the same time they each have served a purpose. THINGS happen in them, lionO grows up a little, Panthro joins the cast, they meet new friends, new friends DIE.

IF i had to pick which show i'd say was better, i'd have to say Thundercats, it has better development of characters, a much more rounded cast, of both good and villains, and the plots don't involve a bunch of shirtless men having to "power up".

the lizards are not super powerful creatures who they can not defeat, and nor is mummra, they just have superior numbers, and weapons right now, and the thundercats just have to use superior tactics, that's all!

I've seen every episode of DBZ. Thundercats has done more int he first four episodes to develop characters and push the story forward than DBZ did in an entire Saga.

DBZ was mostly filler almost zero character development (unless you count Vegetas sudden jump from bad guy to good guy). What DBZ did have was action and tons of it. But the action never really served the storyline.

Also you are comparing a show made 20 years ago to show just made now. I am sure if DBZ were rebooted and made today it would flow very differently.

thundercats more down to earth and detailed but as far as the frieza sagas i dont see tcats coming close to it.. not the kai version, im talking the usa original aired version with the dope music, i just dont see no other cartoon topping that saga..sorry

this why dbz is no.1 its the strength, confusion and rage in characters such as this video that makes dbz in a class of its own..LOOK AT THIS VIDEO

Gohan Goes SSJ2 - YouTube

THIS VIDEO STILL GIVES ME GOSSEBUMPS.. YOU ALL CATCHING GOOSEBUMPS BECAUSE EMRICK DIED OFF TCATS... MANE GET REAL, IT WAS SAD BUT ALSO TOO CHILDISH TO DWELL ON LOL

frieza saga was ok, but it was still very bland, and had very little actual story.

and vegeta did nothing in the series but say how great he is, then get his ass kicked/killed lol

The best thing about DBZ is DBZ Abridged. Because it is a parody, full of love for the original source, but acknowledges and pokes fun at the innumerable amount of flaws and stupidity in it.
But please, can we get back to the topic of the thread? It is obvious that this argument over DBZ isn't going anywhere.

yup class in it's own, four minutes of wasted animation, did they really have to spend a whole FOUR minutes doing nothing?

personally i always enjoyed anime's like rurouni kenshin, much more then dbz, especially the season 2, same kind of build up to fighting the big "villain" at the end, but they did it in a much better way, they didn't need to just get stronger to win, but learn new skills as well.

and the big build up end; is a much better pay off.

Dbz animation sucks so imagine in the future if they remake dbz like the thundercats new animation.. Dbz will be flawless.. And voice wise you all know dbz is way better with the voices and emtions:d

And you saying 4 mins of nothing, like tcats dont have major fillers, even the new series

dbz came out in the 80's when goku was a lil kid and it re invented itself with the raditz saga, dbz all wayz stuck to the story line

Dude, pinero, don't triple post. If you have more to say and no one has responded yet, you can edit your posts!

And again, can we please stop arguing about DBZ? No one is gonna change their opinions, and no one is responding to the actual question of this topic, because we are all just arguing about a show that no one but one person in this forum cares about.

what else is to talk about tILL next friday? If u dont like this thread take ya ass to my other thread,, the thundercats trivia thread.. The mod personally made this thread for debate, so if you dont like it then you can bounce

Debate isn't the problem, I'm all up for debate, but this particular debate over DBZ isn't going anywhere. You have made it abundantly clear that you think DBZ is the greatest thing to exist on earth since oxygen. The point of this thread is to compare other works of animation to the newest Thundercats cartoon, and both sides have made their arguments as to why this is better or worse then DBZ. Since no one is going to change their point of view, would it not be better to discuss another work of animation? This thead is stalling on the topic of DBZ and I am just trying to move us along to a more intelligent debate.

at least they do things rather then stand there and "power up" for 4 minutes.

LOL!

yea arguing about dragon balls getting stolen, is getting a bit old lol

but it is really hard to compare this show to anything, especially made recently, i suppose it seems to be at least as complex that the clone wars series.

but clone wars jumped around too much, from one batch of characters to another. they should of just stuck with the adventures of ahsoka and skywalker.

son gohan had to power up if u follow the story line, i must agree dbz has way too many fillers then any cartoon i seen but i also must admit its the only cartoon i watched since the os tcats. Im not a die hard dbz fan but im is with tcats, i only bring up the whole frieze saga for debate because the rest of the series is just bullshit to me.
ALSO IF IT TOOK HIM A HALF OF MIN TO POWER UP, PPL WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THE CHEESY CONCEPT OF THAT, SO ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO INCREASE INTEREST OF BOTH SIDE OF CROWDS

and that is my problem with the series, there are no tactics, or any creativity in the fights, all it is is two people willing to blow up the planet, to prove which one of them is the strongest.

and it is not just the villains, but the heroes as well.

if frieza could die by a simple SWORD by trunks, they didn't they just pick up a gun, and shoot him? lol

What about ThunderCats 2011 vs. Voltron Force?

and thats what im saying, i stop looking at it since the frieza saga because the frieza saga stuck to the story line of looking and gathering the dragonballS together, it stops there thats why i didnt go no further then the frieza saga.

hmm it's hard to say, both are clearly aimed at different kinds of persons.

thundercats seems to be aimed at a more grown up viewer, like 15 +; while voltron force seems to be aimed more at 8 +

with that said i think voltron force would of been better off as a reimagining rather then a sequel, mainly due to the fact that the viewers they are targeting never watched the original, as they were not even around back when it last aired.

but in terms of story and depth, i think after only four episodes thundercats is further a head then voltron after it's 6 weeks of episodes?

i think one of the problems is that voltron was redesigned to look more like the stealth voltron, then the original. it should of been more bulky and boxy.

it's too round, and they also should not of used cgi to do the battles.

but it could become a good series, it's just kind'a bland right now.

maybe it will be great though?


it started out as looking for the dragon balls, but slowly became more of a "we must defeat frieza!" story, like the rest of them.

i am sure the manga was more in depth, but the toon; isn't so much.

also, dbz needs more female fighters.

that don't stay at home watching tv.

come on Chi Chi used to be able to kick goku's butt. and now all she does is a female stereotype role!?

and PAN, why oh WHY did they not have PAN go super?

Since you mentioned that, I would have to agree. Even though I've recorded a couple episodes of Voltron Force, I really haven't watched them yet. Thundercats appeals to me a lot more.

Thundercats 2011 had fantastic animation. Top notch voice actors. Great Writing an amazing toyline.

Voltron Force has Giant Lions.