Thundercats Ep 13 - Between Brothers Discussion

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

So true. It's "What the hell" moment and it hurts your digestion.

Hurts my heart. I have been there before.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Definitely a very good point. If that was the real cheetara they could say yes she has feelings for Tygra too at the very least. since we have seen that blasted ending anyway.

It wouldn't be a spoiler. It would be a fact.

I am really starting to think it is an illusion.

I don't know what else it could be except sloppy writing. It is to early to have holes in the story.

[AdamofEternia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

All of that are true, there's this odd feeling with that ending scene. Even one reviewer a Tygra/Cheetara fan said so too.

or it could be just bad writing. the reason im saying these things is because your theories make so much sense that they don't happen, i will probably stop watching

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

You know. Nothing added up.

From the heart being intact, to not knowing about making her feelings clear, to knowing what happen to them in the AP, knowing what he was talking about chosing, and the prediction "lion-o will feel betrayed by his brother".

Nothing about cheetara.

If cheetara knew what happen in the AP, she would have gone to lion-o first.

Tygra showed for the first time his illusion power that is real, could be sign of things to come like the ending?

Cheetara dropped the flower and she was exhausted and dehydrated. It probably took her a while to get back on her feet. The flower would have been gone. How can it be intact if it is in her wrist band.

If she knew that she was apart of the problem why make it worse.

To me the illusion sounds 70%.

Being removed for a while from that seen has made me think more logical about it.

There is no way in the world a writer could make so many holes.

Yeah, the episode shows Tygra mind illusion powers in the Astral Plane, so it adds up to the episode story flow if it's being concluded with Tygra having Mind Illusion Powers conjuring the fake Cheetara with or without him knowing it.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

or it could be just bad writing. the reason im saying these things is because your theories make so much sense that they don't happen, i will probably stop watching

I am there with you too.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Yeah, the episode shows Tygra mind illusion powers in the Astral Plane, so it adds up to the episode story flow if it's being concluded with Tygra having Mind Illusion Powers conjuring the fake Cheetara with or without him knowing it.

It would not cause any problems with the story.

I think it makes to much sense.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

or it could be just bad writing. the reason im saying these things is because your theories make so much sense that they don't happen, i will probably stop watching

The thing is the writers involved in this are not newbie writers, so it's so strange if they can make this a bad writing, considering the writers resume. Let's give them 3 more episodes first at least to see where they will go and we can determine it from there to drop or not to drop the show.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

The thing is the writers involved in this are not newbie writers, so it's so strange if they can make this a bad writing, considering the writers resume. Let's give them 3 more episodes first at least to see where they will go and we can determine it from there to drop or not to drop the show.

That is why I don't think there would be any holes this early.

If WB wanted to make money, they would make them take the easy path (L/C). It is just more popular.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

That is why I don't think there would be any holes this early.

If WB wanted to make money, they would make them take the easy path (L/C). It is just more popular.

Yeah I agree, they should know, L/C and T/P are the best overall options, profit wise and fan based wise. So I guess it's back to that layers, characters with conflics,pains,etc reason again why they would do this, illusion or not.

[stormbringer]

One of the WORST things the comics from several years ago did ( and there were many) was put T/C together rather than L/C. I'd hate for this show to make that mistake.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

One of the WORST things the comics from several years ago did ( and there were many) was put T/C together rather than L/C. I'd hate for this show to make that mistake.

Those comics tarnish the OS. Lion-o trap for five years while cheetara is raped.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

One of the WORST things the comics from several years ago did ( and there were many) was put T/C together rather than L/C. I'd hate for this show to make that mistake.

Those comics were nuts. Jelenic said there are a lot of Thunderdads in the current crew and they are making it with the OS fans in mine. But statistically, I don't now, were there alot of the OS fans or Thunderdads that liked that comic/s?

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Yeah I agree, they should know, L/C and T/P are the best overall options, profit wise and fan based wise. So I guess it's back to that layers, characters with conflics,pains,etc reason again why they would do this, illusion or not.

The layers are fine, but it should not be out of nowhere. If it is going to be a X factor, then write it where fans can't pick out holes.

The ending of E13 was not connected and that it makes them look bad.

Illusion would make sense. Lion-o would still be hurt, because he would not know how to react to cheetara.

I just don't want sloppy writing. That turns me off the fastest and the TC are very close to my heart. I don't watch any other CN cartoons.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Those comics tarnish the OS. Lion-o trap for five years while cheetara is raped.

Completely agreed, my jaw dropped when I read some of those stories. The most positive thing I can say about them is I liked the art.

[stormbringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Those comics were nuts. Jelenic said there are a lot of Thunderdads in the current crew and they are making it with the OS fans in mine. But statistically, I don't now, were there alot of the OS fans or Thunderdads that liked that comic/s?

I don't think many OS fans recognize the comics as being in continuity, the comics were almost like porn ridden fanfic.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Completely agreed, my jaw dropped when I read some of those stories. The most positive thing I can say about them is I liked the art.

That is like the dark side of TC. Mummra probably wrote them.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Those comics were nuts. Jelenic said there are a lot of Thunderdads in the current crew and they are making it with the OS fans in mine. But statistically, I don't now, were there alot of the OS fans or Thunderdads that liked that comic/s?

My dad does not know about them.

I saw him again today, he has a tumor. He said he does not want to watch the show, because he can't stand tygra. He is all L/C.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I don't think many OS fans recognize the comics as being in continuity, the comics were almost like porn ridden fanfic.

Because I did not know the details of the comic I just heard one Of the Thunderdads hating those comics, saying those comics were very bad and creazy, etc,etc. Okay that's good to hear then, not a big factor to consider with.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Because I did not know the details of the comic I just heard one Of the Thunderdads hating those comics, saying those comics were very bad and creazy, etc,etc. Okay that's good to hear then, not a big factor to consider with.

Cheetara implied that she is raped.

I hate women abuse, rape is worst. I just don't know how anyone could take that serious IMO>

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Cheetara implied that she is raped.

I hate women abuse, rape is worst. I just don't know anyone could take that serious IMO>

Yeah that's so unnecessary. I don't like women abuse either, especially rape. Like Stombringer said about those comic "...were almost like porn ridden fanfic "

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

The thing is the writers involved in this are not newbie writers, so it's so strange if they can make this a bad writing, considering the writers resume. Let's give them 3 more episodes first at least to see where they will go and we can determine it from there to drop or not to drop the show.

Another thing to think about is they were left with L/C leaving together. I am sure they want to see that completed as it should have been.

[stormbringer]

Cheetara was raped by Monkian, Tygra was tortured, Panthro was a slave in thundrellium mines, and Cheetara blamed Lion-o for everything that happened. I definately don't acknowledge the comics.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormbringer

Cheetara was raped by Monkian, Tygra was tortured, Panthro was a slave in thundrellium mines, and Cheetara blamed Lion-o for everything that happened. I definately don't acknowledge the comics.

Sounds like one of the tygra fans at TLC wrote that.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Another thing to think about is they were left with L/C leaving together. I am sure they want to see that completed as it should have been.

Let's just be optimistic for now, at least. Until the D-day of "New Alliances" approaches. have to be ready with pain killers, before watching "New Aliiances".

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Let's just be optimistic for now, at least. Until the D-day of "New Alliances" approaches. have to be ready with pain killers, before watching "New Aliiances".

My head and heart says it will be L/C. If by lion-o's trails part 2 is the same. I am done. I will try to forget the TC.

I want to buy the dvds, but I am waiting for them to fix it.

I will have some type of pills ready, if I need to numb the pain.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Let's just be optimistic for now, at least. Until the D-day of "New Alliances" approaches. have to be ready with pain killers, before watching "New Aliiances".

Haven't heard anything else?

[ThundercatsRules]

I agree with what cmangund wrote.

[cmangund]

Re-analyzed Jelenic Interview
--------------------------------------------------------

J:We wanted to portray a classic "Hero's Journey,"

I: like the way that took time to develop, especially given only 22 minutes to tell a story. You really took your time with that part of the journey.

J:This is a series that viewers are going to have to "earn". They'll need to tune in every week to learn more of it's lore, backstory and characters.

I:Cheetara and Lion-O – she keeps following him around and looking at him.

J:That little character beat of Cheetara's, following him around, we don't give a definitive answer to that until, I think, Episode 14. If you invest in the show, with each episode you'll get more out of it.
------------------------------------------------

The things to notice here are:

1. Jelenic said Classic "Hero's Jorney", we all know in classic Hero's Journey the hero always get the main girl in the end.

2. Jelenic said twice about investing in the show, one is about the general story and characters the other one is specifically about the Lion-O/Chetara thing. He did not need say twice about investing in the show, if its only about the story and characters in general.

------------------------------------------------------------

Aside from that I also learned that WB actually have produced season 1 for 26 episodes, so the actual season finale for season 1 is EP26 not EP13. CN just messed it up to make it a 4 season show with each season 13 episodes.

They already predicted the effect of EP 13 will have so initially it was supposed to be one of those regular episodes not the season 1 finale. and thus the gamble they dare to make with EP13 with most of the fans (especially most of the OS thunderdads). Eitherway this help strengthen the possibility that the triangle is far from over since when WB produced it EP26 was the season 1 finale.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThundercatsRules

I agree with what cmangund wrote.

Yeah, I was hoping either one of those scenarios will be played out.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

The layers are fine, but it should not be out of nowhere. If it is going to be a X factor, then write it where fans can't pick out holes.

The ending of E13 was not connected and that it makes them look bad.

Illusion would make sense. Lion-o would still be hurt, because he would not know how to react to cheetara.

I just don't want sloppy writing. That turns me off the fastest and the TC are very close to my heart. I don't watch any other CN cartoons.

Yeah, the problem was the jaringness of the plot, suddenly out of nowhere. Writers that whatched the show dropped comments on facebook shortly after Ep13 finished airing that I read, criticize this major plot holes and OOC Cheetara. Illusion will be the best to safe the plot definitely.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Re-analyzed Jelenic Interview
--------------------------------------------------------

J:We wanted to portray a classic "Hero's Journey,"

I: like the way that took time to develop, especially given only 22 minutes to tell a story. You really took your time with that part of the journey.

J:This is a series that viewers are going to have to "earn". They'll need to tune in every week to learn more of it's lore, backstory and characters.

I:Cheetara and Lion-O – she keeps following him around and looking at him.

J:That little character beat of Cheetara's, following him around, we don't give a definitive answer to that until, I think, Episode 14. If you invest in the show, with each episode you'll get more out of it.
------------------------------------------------

The things to notice here are:

1. Jelenic said Classic "Hero's Jorney", we all know in classic Hero's Journey the hero always get the main girl in the end.

2. Jelenic said twice about investing in the show, one is about the general story and characters the other one is specifically about the Lion-O/Chetara thing. He did not need say twice about investing in the show, if its only about the story and characters in general.

------------------------------------------------------------

Aside from that I also learned that WB actually have produced season 1 for 26 episodes, so the actual season finale for season 1 is EP26 not EP13. CN just messed it up to make it a 4 season show with each season 13 episodes.

They already predicted the effect of EP 13 will have so initially it was supposed to be one of those regular episodes not the season 1 finale. and thus the gamble they dare to make with EP13 with most of the fans (especially most of the OS thunderdads). Eitherway this help strengthen the possibility that the triangle is far from over since when WB produced it EP26 was the season 1 finale.

Very good.

He was hinted at a lot without spoiling it.

They gamble when they make that episode being the last one for a while. E13 was so soon for anything to be set in stone.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Very good.

He was hinted at a lot without spoiling it.

They gamble when they make that episode being the last one for a while. E13 was so soon for anything to be set in stone.

Jelenic was very carefull with his words, but I think it was so clear pointing to Lion-O/Cheetara.

Everthing mostly was CN fault they chopped the story that's already done. WB partically finished 26 Episodes already.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Yeah, the problem was the jaringness of the plot, suddenly out of nowhere. Writers that whatched the show dropped comments on facebook shortly after Ep13 finished airing that I read, criticize this major plot holes and OOC Cheetara. Illusion will be the best to safe the plot definitely.

That is a major hole and it conflicts with the little hints they been giving us.

Agree, the illusion would be the best. It would make sense, due to tygra showing us a little bit of it in the AP. That SoO was real he made. Plus it would go with lion-o feeling betrayal by is brother. Tygra didn't do it on purpose.

I hope mummra saw this and uses it.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Jelenic was very carefull with his words, but I think it was so clear pointing to Lion-O/Cheetara.

Everthing mostly was CN fault they chopped the story that's already done. WB partically finished 26 Episodes already.

Also what the actress said that you posted on here.

If the illusion is real, I wonder how lion-o will react to cheetara if she get close to him or touches him.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Also what the actress said that you posted on here.

If the illusion is real, I wonder how lion-o will react to cheetara if she get close to him or touches him.

In that little story I made, will be very easy if Lion-O went solo and got wounded. Cheetara will say yes directly during the nursing scene illusion or no.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

In that little story I made, will be very easy if Lion-O went solo and got wounded. Cheetara will say yes directly during the nursing scene illusion or no.

Even better, she kisses him before he can finish telling her how he feels. She has been waiting.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Even better, she kisses him before he can finish telling her how he feels. She has been waiting.

Man, if only we can be sure it was an illusion and it will go to Lion-O/Cheetara in Ep14.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Man, if only we can be sure it was an illusion and it will go to Lion-O/Cheetara in Ep14.

It would be nice if that can happen. They could grow to loving each other, you could see a little each episode . Then that drama can take a back seat for other characters right now.

We really don't know much about kit and kat.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

It would be nice if that can happen. They could grow to loving each other, you could see a little each episode . Then that drama can take a back seat for other characters right now.

We really don't know much about kit and kat.

Oh yeah Jelenic mentioned something about Kit and Kat.

"Kit and Kat were challenges in a different way than Snarf was, because I never thought they had a clearly defined role on the other series, they were just a pair of teenagers."

"You're going to get some backstory about where that song came from. It's very effective when that theme is played, so it's something to look for in future episodes."

"As far as Kit and Kat, they seem to sort of stand out from the plot, so when you see them it doesn't necessarily have to tie into the larger story. It's a moment to charm the audience and have fun. I think you'll see in some future episodes that we take their scenes pretty far."

[cmangund]

If season 1 story supposed to be 26 episodes CN should have just cut it at Episode 12 so we are not left hanging this long with this edginess and this bitterness. If Ep13 go to 14 in just one week time this edginess and bitterness can be cured faster.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

Oh yeah Jelenic mentioned something about Kit and Kat.

"Kit and Kat were challenges in a different way than Snarf was, because I never thought they had a clearly defined role on the other series, they were just a pair of teenagers."

"You're going to get some backstory about where that song came from. It's very effective when that theme is played, so it's something to look for in future episodes."

"As far as Kit and Kat, they seem to sort of stand out from the plot, so when you see them it doesn't necessarily have to tie into the larger story. It's a moment to charm the audience and have fun. I think you'll see in some future episodes that we take their scenes pretty far."

Thanks.

It seems like they will do each character justice or give them a fair amount of story line. I like that.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

If season 1 story supposed to be 26 episodes CN should have just cut it at Episode 12 so we are not left hanging this long with this edginess and this bitterness. If Ep13 go to 14 in just one week time this edginess and bitterness can be cured faster.

Agreed.

They did it on purpose. How can you let us suffer.

Can you imagine if E14 is a 180 and we had to wait another month for a new episode.

[ThundercatsRules]

How'd you get that as an avatar pic.

[hollowdheart]

I just noticed you avatar cmangund, that's the commission i had Piku-chan do.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowdheart

I just noticed you avatar cmangund, that's the commission i had Piku-chan do.

That's right I put it as my avatar image there to help me clear the fungus in my brain form the last episode I hope you don't mind.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThundercatsRules

How'd you get that as an avatar pic.

As hollowdheart had said. I Just stick it there as a reminder Ep 52 spoiler

[cmangund]

This scenario of Ep14 "New Alliances" been trolling in my head:

- Taking into account all the interviews, facts and data, analysis
- Taking into account the easiness of the last episode doing 180 switch in relationship, I will do a 90 switch instead making it an open triangle
- Assuming Bengali and the clan will be introduced in EP14
- Assuming Tygra here is effected by guilt towards Lion-O after the Astral Plane experience(as it should be if they will not make Tygra OOC) and realize that he almost lost his brother the third time because of his jealousy. Not taking into account X-factors.
- Using L08e16o's idea of Lion-O wounded saving Cheetara and his SoO theory.
- Assuming Lion-O will go solo to clear his head from the triangle
- Assuming the ending in Ep 13 it was not an illusion and it was real


He may go solo with his thunder cycle and snarf, but before that he already sabotaged the thundertank and the other thunderscyle so the other’s cannot follow him to search for the next power stone, using the book of omens.

Then the scene switched to the others worried searching for Lion-O, but not to avail, then Cheetara may found Lion-O’s trail and Tygra asked her to follow the trail and gave her a homing beacon for the rest to follow later, since Cheetara is the fastest. Cheetara starting to realize on the why Lion-O left. With Tygra starting to relize it too but Tygra will be busy fixing the thundertank. With Panthro giving advise on fixing it.

Then Lion-O may found a new village where the tribe resides maybe some introduction scenes of Bengali maybe Lynx-O too surprised seeing Lion-O still alive, Pumyra may be attracted to Lion-O a bit but Lion-O won’t notice it. Maybe some background story of the tribe and maybe about Tygra. Then the tribe suddenly was attacked by the Jackal or other species and a big fight soon started. during the fight Lion-O uses the full power of the sword, Cheetara now knows where he is and increases her speed to go to that direction. Lion-O surprised to see cheetara during the fight, got mortally wounded protecting Cheetara during the fight using L08e16o's idea, Cheetara bring Lion-O to safety while Bengali, Pyumra and Lnyx-O and the rest fight off the rest of the attackers.

After all quiet down the scene switches to Cheetara nursing Lion-O while Pumyra help her and notice the closeness between Lion-O and Cheetara so she left to give them some privacy. Maybe Lion-O confess first his feelings for her, but then feel distressed since it is useless she has chosen Tygra, but Cheetara quickly dismissed that idea and said to him that she has feelings for him too and start explaining the past connection maybe L08e16o's idea SoO theory. After that maybe they kissed or the kiss can be pushed down to EP 26, then maybe she will say that now she knows Lion-O’s feelings for her she cannot choose, and Tygra (did not see the kiss if they did kiss) arrived hearing that part will probably say that she does not have to choose not until the time is right, we still have a kingdom to rebuilt anyway, this can wait, and both brothers starting to realize the feud was wrong and maybe Tygra apologizing to Lion-O then ask him to rest and leave Cheetara with Lion-O and the maybe ended with Cheetara holding Lion-O’s hand.

Then the scene switches to Mumm-ra making alliances with other species and build his next generation army. TO BE CONTINUED TO "Lion-O Trials PI" Maybe Lion-O trials episode will involve Benglai's tribe too and the Tygra/Pumyra thing maybe will start from "Lion-O Trials PI."

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

They did it on purpose. How can you let us suffer.

Can you imagine if E14 is a 180 and we had to wait another month for a new episode.

Darn that will be more nuts too.

[cmangund]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Also what the actress said that you posted on here.

.

O Yeah that Actress interview link I posted here was only when she was asked about the love triangle, the one that she says about the evolving spark between Cheetara/Lion-O was on other interview.

[L08e16o]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmangund

This scenario of Ep14 "New Alliances" been trolling in my head:

- Taking into account all the interviews, facts and data, analysis
- Taking into account the easiness of the last episode doing 180 switch in relationship, I will do a 90 switch instead making it an open triangle
- Assuming Bengali and the clan will be introduced in EP14
- Assuming Tygra here is effected by guilt towards Lion-O after the Astral Plane experience and realize that he almost lost his brother the third time because of his jealousy. Not taking into account X-factors.
- Using L08e16o's idea of Lion-O wounded saving Cheetara and his SoO theory.
- Assuming Lion-O will go solo to clear his head from the triangle
- Assuming the ending in Ep 13 it was not an illusion and it was real


He may go solo with his thunder cycle and snarf, but before that he already sabotaged the thundertank and the other thunderscyle so the other’s cannot follow him to search for the next power stone, using the book of omens.

Then the scene switched to the others worried searching for Lion-O, but not to avail, then Cheetara may found Lion-O’s trail and Tygra asked her to follow the trail and gave her a homing beacon for the rest to follow later, since Cheetara is the fastest. Cheetara starting to realize on the why Lion-O left. With Tygra starting to relize it too but Tygra will be busy fixing the thundertank. With Panthro giving advise on fixing it.

Then Lion-O may found a new village where the tribe resides maybe some introduction scenes of Bengali maybe Lynx-O too surprised seeing Lion-O still alive, Pumyra may be attracted to Lion-O a bit but Lion-O won’t notice it. Maybe some background story of the tribe and maybe about Tygra. Then the tribe suddenly was attacked by the Jackal or other species and a big fight soon started. during the fight Lion-O uses the full power of the sword, Cheetara now knows where he is and increases her speed to go to that direction. Lion-O surprised to see cheetara during the fight, got mortally wounded protecting Cheetara during the fight using L08e16o's idea, Cheetara bring Lion-O to safety while Bengali, Pyumra and Lnyx-O and the rest fight off the rest of the attackers.

After all quiet down the scene switches to Cheetara nursing Lion-O while Pumyra help her and notice the closeness between Lion-O and Cheetara so she left to give them some privacy. Maybe Lion-O confess first his feelings for her, but then feel distressed since it is useless she has chosen Tygra, but Cheetara quickly dismissed that idea and said to him that she has feelings for him too and start explaining the past connection maybe L08e16o's idea SoO theory. After that maybe they kissed or the kiss can be pushed down to EP 26, then maybe she will say that now she knows Lion-O’s feelings for her she cannot choose, and Tygra (did not see the kiss if they did kiss) arrived hearing that part will probably say that she does not have to choose not until the time is right and both brothers starting to realize the feud was wrong and maybe Tygra apologizing to Lion-O then ask him to rest and leave Cheetara with Lion-O and the maybe ended with Cheetara holding Lion-O’s hand.

Then the scene switches to Mumm-ra making alliances with other species and build his next generation army. TO BE CONTINUED TO "Lion-O Trials PI" Maybe Lion-O trials episode will involve Benglai's tribe too and the Tygra/Pumyra thing maybe will start from "Lion-O Trials PI."

Great job.

I know it would not happen, but I wished she would kiss him while he tried to explain how he feels.

I love to see T/P thing start. You could have tygra watching L/C next to each other and pumyra comes up and talks to him. That could start their relationship.