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04-14-2012, 07:34 PM | #51 |
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Oh hon, how could I not like MILFs when I'm one myself?
I can't be a fan of that particular one not because of how she looks, but because from a mother's point of view that's not the right way to treat a child who is about to become an older sibling. As a parent, you feel like you're betraying your -so far- only child by bringing another into the family with who she/he will have to compete for your attention. And as such, what you do is reassure your kid that your love will not waiver. Not suddenly change your pet name in a manner that can be construed to signify that he is less than he was before. I'm not going to say she did not love him anymore, but it sure looked like he was down one step in the ladder of her affections. In reality a mother shouldn't be able to choose one over another. Before I read again that she meant he wasn't the crown prince anymore, she did not call him "my handsome little crown prince". We also know he was still going to be prince, since he is Prince Tygra to this day. She's their mother, she could have called him anything she pleased and could have even upgraded him to big prince with Lion-O inheriting the little prince pet name. She consciously made a decision there to take something from him, and as a mother I can't be a fan. |
04-14-2012, 07:36 PM | #52 |
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His father couldn't have known he'd end up as a prince of Thundera or even IN Thundera. For all his father knew he could've landed in a tree and starved to death a week later. Just because he didn't kill him personally doesn't mean he didn't abandon him.
Lets see...Tygra has lost 3 parents of whom he knew. Lion-O has really only lost one. You don't mourn someone you never met. Tygra wasn't blaming Lion-O in this episode. He was telling what happened and what he felt at the time. Tygra was the only member of his clan in the whole kingdom. Tygra has been learning lessons too, but Lion-O is the focus of the narrative, not Tygra. All his issues have not been solved in one episode. You rock the casbah. |
04-14-2012, 07:37 PM | #53 |
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However Tygra was no match with Lion-O's "kingly skills".
_______________ Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint. |
04-14-2012, 07:44 PM | #54 |
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I think she was just honestly confused about how to treat him. I don't think any real negativity would've lasted had she lived. She pretty much raised and treated him as the heir since she found him and then suddenly he was no longer the heir. I don't think she thought out what to do.
And I'm still not a fan Which was what I was asked about. |
04-14-2012, 07:45 PM | #55 |
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What would have Claudis been feeling for Lion-O?
He got the needed newborn son in exchange of his wife's life and later the kid turns out to be a slacker. There are some stories where the father has a little hatred for the child that took their love as a result of birth. Last edited by Singe; 04-14-2012 at 07:48 PM.. |
04-14-2012, 07:52 PM | #56 |
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I don't think it's nessecarily genetic, but more cultural. Tigers as a culture are proud and Tygra's pride stems from being the only one of his kind in a kingdom of other cats.
There is nothing wrong with pride as long as you don't let it blind you as Caspin and the other Tigers did. It sounds more realistic for it to be a cultural thing, but all things considered I don't see how he was exposed to tiger culture. I just have my own problems with it. Same for the all lions are brave thing |
04-14-2012, 07:57 PM | #57 |
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I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong, especially for a child who's mother died giving birth. There is no more terrible day than the one where you can bear the mystery no longer and are forced to ask "Why don't I have a mommy?" And no matter how much they try to explain that it isn't your fault there is still a terrible guilt that hangs over you.
Last edited by SirSapphire; 04-14-2012 at 08:00 PM.. |
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04-14-2012, 08:01 PM | #58 |
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But why should we understand and think it's ok? The reason he acts like this is because Lion-o was born in the first place. He even said so himself. That the day Lion-o was born he "lost everything" and how his life was perfect before. Just because he gained a little brother and lost a mom doesn't give him an excuse to be a jerk and treat Lion-o like crap all the time. It's not Lion-o's fault, or the Queen's. Tygra made the choice to act the way he did. Adopted or not, he has a mind of his own and can use it. If people are using that excuse, then they're saying the times Tygra tried to kill Lion-o, and the countless times he made him feel horrible is justified because his mom died and he wasn't made Crown Prince? I call BS.
So in conclusion, I don't think its right to blame Lion-O. I just see how someone with those kind of issues could come to that conclusion. |
04-14-2012, 08:05 PM | #59 |
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Well said Chique, understanding his behavior and condoning it are two separate things, and you can feel bad for the guy while still admitting the way he went about things was wrong.
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04-14-2012, 08:06 PM | #60 |
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Lion-O never took anything from Tygra, it was thrust upon him by law. The death of their mother is just cruel circumstance, and as bad as you feel for Tygra he never had to ask the question "Why don't I have a mother?"
Understanding his pain and condoning his behavior are two different things, and while I feel bad for all he has suffered he then spent the rest of his life taking out his frustrations on Lion-O, essentially blaming him for being born. It looks like things are getting better between them though, can't wait to see what the future holds for them. Do you have a relative that you never really knew? When my grandmother loss her father, I was sad but it was more for my grandmother , rather than a sadness for my great grandfather. I never knew him so, I never felt the absence. It's not right of Tygra, but as an imperfect human being I can understand it. |
04-14-2012, 08:20 PM | #61 |
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So after this episode now I have a new theory about Pumyra: With Lion-O's mother dead he would need a nurse to look after him, what if Pumyra was the daughter of that nurse and the two of them were children together until they were separated by their respective educations (Lion-O started taking lessons with Panthro and Gune while Pumyra is apprenticed to an accomplished doctor) and they meet up years later in the Pit?
Given the show's love of backstory through flashback I'd think this is plausible. |
04-14-2012, 08:37 PM | #62 |
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04-14-2012, 08:39 PM | #63 |
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04-14-2012, 08:44 PM | #64 |
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Sorry, Chique, since it's the internet i wasn't able to get the tone across, or hear the tone in yours (if everything had an audio function over the words it'd be awesome). I do feel bad for Tygra, but i don't think it excuses his behavior. When was it mentioned in the show that he was treated like an outcast? We know Lion-o was, but i don't remember in this episode hearing anything about Tygra being treated that way, everyone loved him....
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04-14-2012, 08:55 PM | #65 |
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Sorry, Chique, since it's the internet i wasn't able to get the tone across, or hear the tone in yours (if everything had an audio function over the words it'd be awesome). I do feel bad for Tygra, but i don't think it excuses his behavior. When was it mentioned in the show that he was treated like an outcast? We know Lion-o was, but i don't remember in this episode hearing anything about Tygra being treated that way, everyone loved him....
He felt like his birth parents abandoned him, and his mother changed when she got pregnant ( not commenting on her intentions, but it was a change) and then died when Lion-O was born. Then there's the whole sword and crown thing. Tygra has a constant fear of rejection. |
04-14-2012, 08:57 PM | #66 |
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This snarf hasn't been confirmed to be ozbert as ozbert was a cameo in butterfly blues so in that sense who knows what gender this snarf is. Panthro also said he didn't need a nurse maid when snarf was trying to feed him with a spoon
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04-14-2012, 09:01 PM | #67 |
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Oh no, he FELT like an outcast. Which isn't hard to imagine. It's actually something a lot of adopted kids go through. Why don't I look anything like the people I love? That, and Thundarians don't look to fondly upon tigers. I can imagine it's one of the reason Tygra worked so hard to prove he was worthy.
He felt like his birth parents abandoned him, and his mother changed when she got pregnant ( not commenting on her intentions, but it was a change) and then died when Lion-O was born. Then there's the whole sword and crown thing. Tygra has a constant fear of rejection. |
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04-14-2012, 09:06 PM | #68 |
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I don't think they've ever seen tigers, because the tiger clan was isolated in the mountains. But they did hold disdain with them over their allegiance in the war. Rewatch the first scene between Lion-O, Tygra and Javon. |
04-14-2012, 09:10 PM | #69 |
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He may not have known that Tygra would become a prince but that does not change the fact that his actions shaped Tygra’s life into what it is. Between a choice of killing him or sending him away, Javon made the only choice he could. Quote:
Lets see...Tygra has lost 3 parents of whom he knew. Lion-O has really only lost one. You don't mourn someone you never met.
He acts like Lion-O came straight out of his mother's womb with the intention of “taking” his kingdom. Quote:
Tygra wasn't blaming Lion-O in this episode. He was telling what happened and what he felt at the time.
Implying that his life would have been so much better had his brother not been born was not a very nice thing to do. I was criticising Tygra’s constant griping; his entire “woe-is-me” act was irritating after a while. It’s as though Lion-O and the others didn’t even exist. Quote:
Tygra was the only member of his clan in the whole kingdom.
My point was that if Tygra felt like he did not belong, then the writers hadn’t done a good job of showing that. I’m supposed to suddenly believe that Tygra spent his whole life “not quite belonging?” Why not give us a silly flashback like they did with Cheetara and the Flower, after all they seem to be good at that. Quote:
Tygra has been learning lessons too, but Lion-O is the focus of the narrative, not Tygra. All his issues have not been solved in one episode.
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04-14-2012, 09:10 PM | #70 |
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I wish the show was longer, like a hour.....it just feel so rushed to me....there's so much more I wish they would've gone into....it's like I'm just getting in to it then boom it's over.....
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04-14-2012, 09:17 PM | #71 |
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04-14-2012, 09:19 PM | #72 |
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Man, certain fans really really love to judge things based on flashbacks. One flashback of Lion-Os mom and suddenly everyone is 'this woman is a horrible mother to Tygra'. You guys want to see what really abusive stepmoms look like? Take a look at cinderella first --_- The sheer amount of whining about how Tygra feels unloved because lion-o's mom didn't call him a prince is amazing.
And losing an adoptive mother you've met is probably a lot better than being the one responsible for killing your mother when she gives birth to you. You can try and see which talk is easier to give "I'm sorry son, but your mother went to a better place" or "I'm sorry son, but your mother couldn't take your birth very well and died because of it" |
04-14-2012, 09:33 PM | #73 |
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Man, certain fans really really love to judge things based on flashbacks. One flashback of Lion-Os mom and suddenly everyone is 'this woman is a horrible mother to Tygra'. You guys want to see what really abusive stepmoms look like? Take a look at cinderella first --_- The sheer amount of whining about how Tygra feels unloved because lion-o's mom didn't call him a prince is amazing.
And losing an adoptive mother you've met is probably a lot better than being the one responsible for killing your mother when she gives birth to you. You can try and see which talk is easier to give "I'm sorry son, but your mother went to a better place" or "I'm sorry son, but your mother couldn't take your birth very well and died because of it" I don't think she stopped loving him, but she really shouldn't have said that. It gave Tygra the impression that something had shifted, and Eclipse has gone into the new baby thing. Bro why toss in the adopted thing? Adopted or not, she was his mother. She raised him and loved him. The reason why some people went in on the prince thing, was because it looked like she was going to favor Lion-O because he was biologically hers. Which I think we can agree would be wrong. Lion-O didn't have that big of a reaction to the flashback. He looked more hurt by the Thundarians pushing the tigers out of the city. Which (IMHO) is fine. Equality and fairness is a big part of Lion-O, and you cant miss someone you never knew. Oh what should we do? Ignore the flashbacks because you don't like them? 0.o If we weren't suppose to "judge" the flashbacks, then the writers wouldn't have included them. |
04-14-2012, 09:49 PM | #74 |
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You can take them for what they are, rather than picking it apart to find a nuance that suits your own views. There is no reason anyone needs to "judge" it at all.
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04-14-2012, 09:49 PM | #75 |
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Man, certain fans really really love to judge things based on flashbacks. One flashback of Lion-Os mom and suddenly everyone is 'this woman is a horrible mother to Tygra'. You guys want to see what really abusive stepmoms look like? Take a look at cinderella first --_- The sheer amount of whining about how Tygra feels unloved because lion-o's mom didn't call him a prince is amazing.
And losing an adoptive mother you've met is probably a lot better than being the one responsible for killing your mother when she gives birth to you. You can try and see which talk is easier to give "I'm sorry son, but your mother went to a better place" or "I'm sorry son, but your mother couldn't take your birth very well and died because of it" We're not saying she's a HORRIBLE MOTHER. We're saying that the WAY she approached telling Tygra made the little boy feel he's not going to be "her handsome prince" anymore. You see how she frowned when she changed that statement. And like I've said, maybe she didn't mean to be mean, she just got the wrong way about it. I AM a mother. I have a six year old boy and I would never have told him that, especially now that's he going to have a little brother too. And I don't think Claudus would be THAT callous to little old Lion-O. He wouldn't say, Sorry son, your mother died because she gave birth to you. Pregnancy has many complications and its not always the direct cause of the child that it happened. |
04-14-2012, 09:53 PM | #76 |
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Having an opinion, good or bad, is judging it. Whose to say you're right and I'm wrong, or vice verse? Unless the producers and writers want to add to the discussion or expand on it further, we won't ever know. Last edited by Chique; 04-14-2012 at 09:56 PM.. |
04-14-2012, 09:54 PM | #77 |
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I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong, especially for a child who's mother died giving birth. There is no more terrible day than the one where you can bear the mystery no longer and are forced to ask "Why don't I have a mommy?" And no matter how much they try to explain that it isn't your fault there is still a terrible guilt that hangs over you.
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04-14-2012, 09:55 PM | #78 |
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04-14-2012, 10:01 PM | #79 |
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Really? Javon first proposed sending an envoy to Thundera. He knew where it was located and the Tigers seem to be more familiar with technology (the whip). It's a reasonable assumption to make.
He may not have known that Tygra would become a prince but that does not change the fact that his actions shaped Tygra’s life into what it is. Between a choice of killing him or sending him away, Javon made the only choice he could. As for the only choice he could make? He was the ruler of the Tigers. Last time I checked that meant if you say "No I'm not killing my son, and we're going to Thundera for help" then that's what your people do. He didn't have to take the other guy's advice. Exactly. My point stands. He didn't say "Lion-O took the two things I cherished most." Last edited by Balgus82; 04-14-2012 at 10:10 PM.. |
04-14-2012, 10:02 PM | #80 |
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If we had seen him feeling like an outcast, and shown it, then i wouldn't have to be questioning it. But it just seems odd, given that now we're told he felt like an outcast.
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04-14-2012, 10:06 PM | #81 |
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Did anybody look at the credits? I'm not sure about the spelling of Tygra's father's name.
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04-14-2012, 10:08 PM | #82 |
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That's a matter of opinion. Is it better to love and to have lost, or to have never loved at all? Personally, I don't think you can miss someone you never knew. He was probably curious and maybe guilty, but I don't think he felt that longing for her. Specifically her, not "a mother" but a longing for the woman we saw int he flashback.
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Oh what should we do? Ignore the flashbacks because you don't like them? 0.o If we weren't suppose to "judge" the flashbacks, then the writers wouldn't have included them.
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04-14-2012, 10:18 PM | #83 |
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Maybe they'll show it it another one of those flashbacks the writers love so much.
I have friends who have never known their mother and I dare you to say that to them. Seriously, people can cry over stupid things like idols or celebrities dying and you think it's not possible to miss someone you've never known, even if that person happens to be the one who gave birth to you and contributed 1/2 your genetic material? No I just find it funny how people use the flashbacks to confirm their own prejudices. Flower flashback? Cheetara was totally digging Tygra for the first 13 episodes. Lion-Os mother flashback? We can totally see why Tygra is disgruntled at Lion-O; because he wasn't prince anymore. Tygra almost killing Lion-O flashback; "but...he came back for Lion-O so it was ok" Sheesh What else are we suppose to do with the flashbacks? Ignore them? I know a guy who lost his mother when her was very young. I felt guilty for bringing it up, but he shrugged it off. I'm not saying it would be WRONG of Lion-O to feel for her, but I can see why he doesn't. That's why his lack of reaction was no problem for me. Once again, you are looking at these characters as if they are perfect unemotional logical creatures. Sometimes your emotions get the best of you. |
04-14-2012, 10:26 PM | #84 |
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lol, I'm not looking at them for being perfect creatures. People who apparently expect Lion-Os mother to have called Tygra 'prince' instead of darling are, especially with the way some of them like repeating they're mothers and how they would never do that. Seriously, it's one slip-up and people are already ready to hang her or justify Tygra's behavior from that one slip-up. I guess it's how people like to blame everything on their parents -_-
So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence. |
04-14-2012, 10:33 PM | #85 |
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lol, I'm not looking at them for being perfect creatures. People who apparently expect Lion-Os mother to have called Tygra 'prince' instead of darling are, especially with the way some of them like repeating they're mothers and how they would never do that. Seriously, it's one slip-up and people are already ready to hang her or justify Tygra's behavior from that one slip-up. I guess it's how people like to blame everything on their parents -_-
So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence. Quote:
So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence.
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04-14-2012, 10:35 PM | #86 |
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lol, I'm not looking at them for being perfect creatures. People who apparently expect Lion-Os mother to have called Tygra 'prince' instead of darling are, especially with the way some of them like repeating they're mothers and how they would never do that. Seriously, it's one slip-up and people are already ready to hang her or justify Tygra's behavior from that one slip-up. I guess it's how people like to blame everything on their parents -_-
So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence. I didn't judge her to be a bad mother. I said the way she went about telling her son that isn't right. We're not hanging her character, we didn't like the way she made him feel. There are a few different ways you can approach your kid to tell him he has to share his parents with a sibling, that was not one of them. The last thing you want your kid to know is that they're not going to be as special as they were when they were by themselves. This is where sibling rivalry can stem from. We're not justifying that to Tygra's behavior either. |
04-14-2012, 10:41 PM | #87 |
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I didn't judge her to be a bad mother. I said the way she went about telling her son that isn't right. We're not hanging her character, we didn't like the way she made him feel. There are a few different ways you can approach your kid to tell him he has to share his parents with a sibling, that was not one of them. The last thing you want your kid to know is that they're not going to be as special as they were when they were by themselves. This is where sibling rivalry can stem from. We're not justifying that to Tygra's behavior either. |
04-14-2012, 10:43 PM | #88 |
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I was talking to somebody and she brought up a good point...why are they looking for a passages through the mountains.....what about the third stone....the one up on the cliff...I didn't see any snow covered mountains anywhere by that cliff.....
am I missing something?....if the stone is not up on that cliff then why did the book point up? |
04-14-2012, 10:54 PM | #89 |
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lol, I'm not looking at them for being perfect creatures. People who apparently expect Lion-Os mother to have called Tygra 'prince' instead of darling are, especially with the way some of them like repeating they're mothers and how they would never do that. Seriously, it's one slip-up and people are already ready to hang her or justify Tygra's behavior from that one slip-up. I guess it's how people like to blame everything on their parents -_-
So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence. |
04-14-2012, 10:56 PM | #90 |
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Balloons can be controlled and in this case, possibly by technological means – but that is speculation. Regarding the whip, I always assumed that Tygra’s whip was technology and I thought it would be the same with the new whip. Tygus seemed adept with technology which is why I also assumed that the Tigers would have retained some knowledge of it. However, this is also speculation. Quote:
As for the only choice he could make? He was the ruler of the Tigers. Last time I checked that meant if you say "No I'm not killing my son, and we're going to Thundera for help" then that's what your people do. He didn't have to take the other guy's advice.
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Exactly. My point stands. He didn't say "Lion-O took the two things I cherished most."
I said that that was what he implied when he said that. His life was great until the day Lion-O was born when his mother and his kingdom were lost to him. Moreover, Tygra has, on multiple occasions throughout the previous season, stated that Lion-O “took” the crown away from him. |
04-14-2012, 10:57 PM | #91 |
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I was talking to somebody and she brought up a good point...why are they looking for a passages through the mountains.....what about the third stone....the one up on the cliff...I didn't see any snow covered mountains anywhere by that cliff.....
am I missing something?....if the stone is not up on that cliff then why did the book point up? |
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04-14-2012, 11:05 PM | #92 |
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In this ep tygra gets the lion-o treatment from the writers.
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04-14-2012, 11:30 PM | #93 |
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lol, I'm not looking at them for being perfect creatures. People who apparently expect Lion-Os mother to have called Tygra 'prince' instead of darling are, especially with the way some of them like repeating they're mothers and how they would never do that. Seriously, it's one slip-up and people are already ready to hang her or justify Tygra's behavior from that one slip-up. I guess it's how people like to blame everything on their parents -_-
So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence. |
04-14-2012, 11:56 PM | #94 |
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Whatever your views on parenting are, we obviously don't agree on which way it's best to raise a child. It's not OK to slip-up. Be it like the Queen did or in any other way. If you do, you make up for it right away, and she did not. You don't want to think that this particular scene in the flashback had any significance, but the fact that it was shown like that says different, and the fact that no follow-up till the death of the Queen is shown says things were maintained as the last previous scene.
Furthermore, lack of evidence is not evidence. You can say things were maintained and I can say things weren't. How are you going to prove otherwise? And again, I find all this whining about how Lion-Os mom didn't call Tygra prince incredible. Is this what it takes to not be a good parent anymore? |
04-15-2012, 12:08 AM | #95 |
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The outcast aspect was that there were no others of his species he could associate or learn from at that time, except maybe legend or past transgressions/hatred.
Some story characters develop a last or only one of my kind mentality. Such things like this can be chalked up to characters lacking certain things. |
04-15-2012, 12:14 AM | #96 |
Survivor of the Anointment Trials
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Quote:
How is tygra's frowning face before the whole not being called prince overlooked. This being shown from his point of view shows his selfish destructive behavior from a young age. Not enough on lion-o's mom to say much about her but tygra wasn't put out of the palace or denied being treated like royalty
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04-15-2012, 12:21 AM | #97 |
Survivor of the Anointment Trials
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Regarding the whip, I always assumed that Tygra’s whip was technology and I thought it would be the same with the new whip.
Tygus seemed adept with technology which is why I also assumed that the Tigers would have retained some knowledge of it. However, this is also speculation. Leo was also adept in technology, but that doesn't mean they still had it 5000 years later in Thundera either. Much less an outcast clan living in caves. Quote:
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You’ve only selected one part of my post and quoted it out of context. I explained my reasons in the sentences right before and after.
I said that that was what he implied when he said that. His life was great until the day Lion-O was born when his mother and his kingdom were lost to him. Moreover, Tygra has, on multiple occasions throughout the previous season, stated that Lion-O “took” the crown away from him. I didn't say he hasn't blamed Lion-O in past episodes. What I said was that He wasn't blaming Lion-O in THIS episode. It wasn't what the scene was about. Last edited by Balgus82; 04-15-2012 at 12:25 AM.. |
04-15-2012, 12:48 AM | #98 |
Thunder Kitty
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 151
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I think Tygra should have understood Lion-O more when Lion-O wasn't favored by Claudus because here it seems Lion-O was connected with Tygra's real father a lot more than Tygra did and this may have caused Tygra to feel resentful. Last episode should have Tygra understanding Lion-O better after what he goes through as king in his absence. Not only is Tygra not admitting he's wrong as his character flaw, so is his self-centeredness.
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vantheman77 |
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04-15-2012, 12:52 AM | #99 |
Thunderian Commoner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 212
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Tygra has a hard time with Lion-O coming into his life.
It can go either way that a child will accept or not accept the new sibling. Some children who were once spoiled as the center of attention will have a hard time accepting such a change. Also being in a Royal Family made him super spoiled. Plus cats are territorial by nature. |
04-15-2012, 12:56 AM | #100 |
Witch Doctor
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Battle.net
Posts: 193
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You're right, we don't agree on views on parenting. Parents are human as well as any others and unless you live in Brady Brunch land, it's very possible that in your entire life as a child, your parents have probably slipped once, twice or even a lot more. Expecting them to be perfect? That just leads to a lot of resentment and useless armchair therapy later on in life.
Furthermore, lack of evidence is not evidence. You can say things were maintained and I can say things weren't. How are you going to prove otherwise? And again, I find all this whining about how Lion-Os mom didn't call Tygra prince incredible. Is this what it takes to not be a good parent anymore? If we get another one in the future disproving my theory, I will have no qualms to say I was wrong. In the meantime, that's what I think about the significance of that scene, and what I think about parenting. It's not meant to be pleasant. |
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