Thundercats Episode 21 Birth of the Blade Discussion

Eclipse · 05-13-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuukonomiko

I know, lol. One of my friends is already having a semi-meltdown because he doesn't want Myra for Lion-O, lol. I say, be patient!

One other possible scenario I forgot to add in my "Kaynar's Oh The Possibilities" list is have Myra be Mumm-Ra's mole. Hey, we didn't know what happened those few minutes she disappeared into the mines and he captured her.

Conspiracy Theory anyone?

Dang, maybe I should apply to write for them, lol! Just a thought...

Well, somebody could take the traitor role since Grune's been gone for so long now. It would suck if it was Pumyra though... for Lion-O, but mostly for her!

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 10:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Eclipse

That, too. The episode showed a lot about his former relationship with the cats and it fits perfectly.

As well as the fact that the last time he fought Lion-O with the SoO and the Spirit Stone he went back home crying. He needed to distract him in order to get the SoP, which will give him an edge in future encounters.

Two birds, one stone, I mean sword.

That scene in Trials was probably the one I had the most problem with outside of LionO's tricking the generals so easily.

Mumm-Ra makes a statement along the lines that he is all powerful in his temple than Lion-O hits him once and he runs off crying....

The generals; my issue was the three were able to get the upper hand on L/C/T in New Alliances and were able to ambush and capture ALL the Thundercats in Trials pt1 but fresh off his return from the dead, Lion-O manages to outsmart them....Just seemed kinda hoaky to me.

Big Snarf · 05-13-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

That scene in Trials was probably the one I had the most problem with outside of LionO's tricking the generals so easily.

Mumm-Ra makes a statement along the lines that he is all powerful in his temple than Lion-O hits him once and he runs off crying....

The generals; my issue was the three were able to get the upper hand on L/C/T in New Alliances and were able to ambush and capture ALL the Thundercats in Trials pt1 but fresh off his return from the dead, Lion-O manages to outsmart them....Just seemed kinda hoaky to me.

They were hungry and lion-o looked like dinner running away so they followed him.

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Well, somebody could take the traitor role since Grune's been gone for so long now. It would suck if it was Pumyra though... for Lion-O, but mostly for her!

I sort of see Tygra as being the most fitting to be a traitor.

He still seems to harbor too much darkness in his heart. He still seems overly jealous of Lion-O. He hails from a clan known for being traitors (and the crew does seem to be aiming for a history repeats itself motif in many ways). Grune was his idol. Mumm-Ra knows that Tygra resents Lion-O.

I just keep getting the feeling the season cliffy might be Mumm-Ra swaying Tygra to his side.

Shadowknight1 · 05-13-2012, 11:13 AM

I had a few problems with this episode. Not really "writing" per se, but some things that strain logic. First, the idea that wiping out an entire galaxy would only destroy two planets that support life that only orbit a single star is kinda bogus. Surely there would be more than two in an entire galaxy. Secondly...why in the name of Thundera would Mumm-ra need a SWORD when he has a bomb that can reduce an entire galaxy to a glob of metal???? It seems to me that he already has a weapon more powerful than his stupid sword. That'd be like Emperor Palpatine claiming he needs a new lightsaber even though he has the Death Star at his beckon call.

And now for a problem I had with the writing. Since Lion-O refused to fight Pumyra in the Pit, she treated him with a great deal of respect in the last episode, even going so far as to throw that flirty "Maybe you should move on to another cat" line. Then, in THIS episode, she goes back to being bitchy, snarky, and all around rude up until the end. Tell me, do the writers watch the previous episodes? Or is Pumyra just supposed to be bipolar?

And to throw in my two cents about Cheetara. At first, I was like many of you, ie. ticked off that she was "in love" with Tygra after throwing all those signals at Lion-O. She then said that she was sticking close to him to help him reach his destiny, blah blah. I wasn't buying it at first, but now that I think on it...Lion-O's essentially a young man, probably just out of his teens if not still in them. What better way for a girl with nice curves to push a guy into following the path laid out before him? She doesn't exactly have Jaga's talent for...well, talking and making Lion-O listen...so she has to work with what she's got. But I think that her confidence in her cleric abilities and duties has fallen since the "everything's changed" bit, so she really needs an episode to get herself back up and on the job. Where's the spirit of Jaga when you need him?

stac · 05-13-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowknight1

And now for a problem I had with the writing. Since Lion-O refused to fight Pumyra in the Pit, she treated him with a great deal of respect in the last episode, even going so far as to throw that flirty "Maybe you should move on to another cat" line. Then, in THIS episode, she goes back to being bitchy, snarky, and all around rude up until the end. Tell me, do the writers watch the previous episodes? Or is Pumyra just supposed to be bipolar?

You should be used to this by now seeing as such inconsistently in characterisation is now a trademark of the show.

If the plot requires it then character development will regress, no matter how strange it seems.

Quote:

Lion-O's essentially a young man, probably just out of his teens if not still in them. What better way for a girl with nice curves to push a guy into following the path laid out before him?

The only way for Cheetara to get Lion-O to learn was to use her ‘feminine wiles?’ This doesn’t seem like a particularly strong argument. It’s rather sexist actually.

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But I think that her confidence in her cleric abilities and duties has fallen since the "everything's changed" bit, so she really needs an episode to get herself back up and on the job. Where's the spirit of Jaga when you need him?

This I agree with completely.

Big Snarf · 05-13-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowknight1

I had a few problems with this episode. Not really "writing" per se, but some things that strain logic. First, the idea that wiping out an entire galaxy would only destroy two planets that support life that only orbit a single star is kinda bogus. Surely there would be more than two in an entire galaxy. Secondly...why in the name of Thundera would Mumm-ra need a SWORD when he has a bomb that can reduce an entire galaxy to a glob of metal???? It seems to me that he already has a weapon more powerful than his stupid sword. That'd be like Emperor Palpatine claiming he needs a new lightsaber even though he has the Death Star at his beckon call.

And now for a problem I had with the writing. Since Lion-O refused to fight Pumyra in the Pit, she treated him with a great deal of respect in the last episode, even going so far as to throw that flirty "Maybe you should move on to another cat" line. Then, in THIS episode, she goes back to being bitchy, snarky, and all around rude up until the end. Tell me, do the writers watch the previous episodes? Or is Pumyra just supposed to be bipolar?

And to throw in my two cents about Cheetara. At first, I was like many of you, ie. ticked off that she was "in love" with Tygra after throwing all those signals at Lion-O. She then said that she was sticking close to him to help him reach his destiny, blah blah. I wasn't buying it at first, but now that I think on it...Lion-O's essentially a young man, probably just out of his teens if not still in them. What better way for a girl with nice curves to push a guy into following the path laid out before him? She doesn't exactly have Jaga's talent for...well, talking and making Lion-O listen...so she has to work with what she's got. But I think that her confidence in her cleric abilities and duties has fallen since the "everything's changed" bit, so she really needs an episode to get herself back up and on the job. Where's the spirit of Jaga when you need him?

Not really if our sun (or star) was destroyed I'm not sure of the number of other worlds aside from earth (probably none) where life would be lost. Now mumm-ra has made probably the only weapon powerful enough to stop him and made it his own making him supposedly now unbeatable (until the SoO comes into play). Pumyra has issues that she is working through(its better that wasn't a one ep fix with her problem seeing how only a day or two has passed). Cheetara has been quite useless as a cleric for the lenght of the show so far.

glane21 · 05-13-2012, 01:24 PM

Mumm-Ra had some good lines in this one:

"Your ancestor sought to destroy me! I'm still here, where is he?"

and then when he blasts Pumyra unconscious:

"Quiet woman...we're talking."

Great stuff.

Balgus82 · 05-13-2012, 01:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Sining

So if I'm rich, I deserve to be hated by poor people simply because I'm rich? WTF? Sounds like the main villain from Princess Lover, who was a dumbass.

I don't understand your comparison. Are you saying rich people don't want to be rich? or have no control over being rich?

Anyway I wasn't saying it absolved Tygra of all guilt in the matter. I was saying that his PoV is understandable.

CCDustyV · 05-13-2012, 01:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Cheetara has been quite useless as a cleric for the lenght of the show so far.

You know, ever since Between Brothers, she's just become very, overly submissive. What happened to the fire we saw in her in the first 13 eps. I think that's my biggest problem with the whole Tygra/Cheetara situation, not only did it come out of nowhere, but she's become nothing more than armcandy for Tygra. How has she exactly contributed to the team besides finally being able to bust open the lock on the Sword of Plundarr last week?

Balgus82 · 05-13-2012, 01:48 PM

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Originally Posted by L08e16o

Kora is also the lead character and she didn't lose in the triangle.

She didn't? She still has no boyfriend. Mako is going out with that other chick.

Balgus82 · 05-13-2012, 01:55 PM

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Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

Sorry to tell you SS but even I have noticed there seems to be more fans agreeing on a Lion-o/Cheetara pairing than anything else.

Actually, one of the reasons why I never signed up at TClair was after reading many of the comments, it did seem like the Tygrashipping was above average crazy there. Not saying there aren't fans of others on that site but they seem to get drowned out by the Tygra fans.

No need for you to throw in that last line. All it does it make you seem like a spolied child who wants to take their toys and go home because they don't like how the other kids are playing.

TCL isn't any worse with the Tygra fans than this place is with Lion-O fans. As long as you're respectful when you post your opinions everyone is fine. They'll counter your arguments, but how is that any different than what we do here?

Balgus82 · 05-13-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowknight1

I had a few problems with this episode. Not really "writing" per se, but some things that strain logic. First, the idea that wiping out an entire galaxy would only destroy two planets that support life that only orbit a single star is kinda bogus. Surely there would be more than two in an entire galaxy. Secondly...why in the name of Thundera would Mumm-ra need a SWORD when he has a bomb that can reduce an entire galaxy to a glob of metal???? It seems to me that he already has a weapon more powerful than his stupid sword. That'd be like Emperor Palpatine claiming he needs a new lightsaber even though he has the Death Star at his beckon call.

How many planets support life in our galaxy?

Anyway having something that can blow up a galaxy is fine and all, but what if your goal isn't just to destroy everything in sight? Different weapons for different purposes.

Mum Star · 05-13-2012, 02:29 PM

Galaxy was just a wee bit excessive on the writers part though.

My biggest problem with how the Tygra Cheetara relationship has been handled is that in effect all Cheetara seems to have become is another issue between Lion-O and Tygra. Be nice if they let her have some character of her own that didn't revolve around the boys. I was honestly figuring on Lion-O/Cheetara, but Tygra and Cheetara doesn't drive me crazy. I'm more bothered by the fact Tygra and Lion-O's relationship doesn't seem to go anywhere. That is to say Tygra never seems to get over his jelousy of Lion-O, and Lion-O never gets to surpass Tygra. The writers probably think their going to be able to milk it for drama, but if they wait too long it'll ring hollow, and any victory Lion-O gets over Tygra will feel like a fluke.

Loin-O will be the Mole! Who'd see that coming? More serously though, they might pull something with Pumrya. In TOS Mumm-Ra did once disguise himself as Pumm-Ra. Kinda hope they keep her though. I got a soft spot for her bieng used so little in TOS.

Damn Shipping. Makes everyone crazy. Damn love triangles. I always get them wrong.

Mum Star · 05-13-2012, 02:34 PM

Sorry, somehow got a double post.

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mum Star

Galaxy was just a wee bit excessive on the writers part though.

My biggest problem with how the Tygra Cheetara relationship has been handled is that in effect all Cheetara seems to have become is another issue between Lion-O and Tygra. Be nice if they let her have some character of her own that didn't revolve around the boys. I was honestly figuring on Lion-O/Cheetara, but Tygra and Cheetara doesn't drive me crazy. I'm more bothered by the fact Tygra and Lion-O's relationship doesn't seem to go anywhere. That is to say Tygra never seems to get over his jelousy of Lion-O, and Lion-O never gets to surpass Tygra. The writers probably think their going to be able to milk it for drama, but if they wait too long it'll ring hollow, and any victory Lion-O gets over Tygra will feel like a fluke.

Loin-O will be the Mole! Who'd see that coming? More serously though, they might pull something with Pumrya. In TOS Mumm-Ra did once disguise himself as Pumm-Ra. Kinda hope they keep her though. I got a soft spot for her bieng used so little in TOS.

Damn Shipping. Makes everyone crazy. Damn love triangles. I always get them wrong.

You are not alone in your problems with Ty/Chee. Seems that is the biggest issue fans have with the show moreso than anything else.

Lol, yeah shipping can get pretty serious. If the triangle is done right, it works great. if it is done wrong... well, just look at this reboot.

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 02:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Balgus82

TCL isn't any worse with the Tygra fans than this place is with Lion-O fans.

That is a matter of opinion.

What I've seen more than anything else on TCL is a particular group of Tygrashipping people basically trolling the board and whenever anyone comments something that group doesn't like, they go into a feeding frenzy that puts piranha to shame.

What I see here thus far is the fish all seem to have an equal chance to swim in the pond.

Balgus82 · 05-13-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

That is a matter of opinion.

What I've seen more than anything else on TCL is a particular group of Tygrashipping people basically trolling the board and whenever anyone comments something that group doesn't like, they go into a feeding frenzy that puts piranha to shame.

What I see here thus far is the fish all seem to have an equal chance to swim in the pond.

You haven't been here long but I've more than seen the same thing here. I used to be the only person here even willing to defend Tygra on anything because people would pounce.

AdamofEternia · 05-13-2012, 03:03 PM

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Originally Posted by CCDustyV

You know, ever since Between Brothers, she's just become very, overly submissive. What happened to the fire we saw in her in the first 13 eps. I think that's my biggest problem with the whole Tygra/Cheetara situation, not only did it come out of nowhere, but she's become nothing more than armcandy for Tygra. How has she exactly contributed to the team besides finally being able to bust open the lock on the Sword of Plundarr last week?

i 100% agree with you and this has been my problem with the way the writers have handled cheetara's character. it seems after she became tygra's girl, her role as cleric has vanished and she constantly fades in to the background. even the newcomer pumyra has gotten so much more important spotlight and screentime than cheetara over the course of the season. i can honestly say i understand the anger towards cheetara's character from the people all over this threads. the reason im ranting is because although i never watched the OS, cheetara's character especially with her abilities can make for some interesting solo episodes. i really don't care much for romance in this series but it seems for cheetara's character, it has kind of halted her growth in this series so far.

L08e16o · 05-13-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

You should be used to this by now seeing as such inconsistently in characterisation is now a trademark of the show.

If the plot requires it then character development will regress, no matter how strange it seems.

The only way for Cheetara to get Lion-O to learn was to use her ‘feminine wiles?’ This doesn’t seem like a particularly strong argument. It’s rather sexist actually.

This I agree with completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Snarf

Not really if our sun (or star) was destroyed I'm not sure of the number of other worlds aside from earth (probably none) where life would be lost. Now mumm-ra has made probably the only weapon powerful enough to stop him and made it his own making him supposedly now unbeatable (until the SoO comes into play). Pumyra has issues that she is working through(its better that wasn't a one ep fix with her problem seeing how only a day or two has passed). Cheetara has been quite useless as a cleric for the lenght of the show so far.

EC character in Tron gets more lines and screen time than her character in this show.

L08e16o · 05-13-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glane21

Mumm-Ra had some good lines in this one:

"Your ancestor sought to destroy me! I'm still here, where is he?"

and then when he blasts Pumyra unconscious:

"Quiet woman...we're talking."

Great stuff.

The Quiet one was great!!

L08e16o · 05-13-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

She didn't? She still has no boyfriend. Mako is going out with that other chick.

My point is she will win in the triangle. She is the lead.

It is early too in the show.

L08e16o · 05-13-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

That is a matter of opinion.

What I've seen more than anything else on TCL is a particular group of Tygrashipping people basically trolling the board and whenever anyone comments something that group doesn't like, they go into a feeding frenzy that puts piranha to shame.

What I see here thus far is the fish all seem to have an equal chance to swim in the pond.

This is true after 13.

L08e16o · 05-13-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

i 100% agree with you and this has been my problem with the way the writers have handled cheetara's character. it seems after she became tygra's girl, her role as cleric has vanished and she constantly fades in to the background. even the newcomer pumyra has gotten so much more important spotlight and screentime than cheetara over the course of the season. i can honestly say i understand the anger towards cheetara's character from the people all over this threads. the reason im ranting is because although i never watched the OS, cheetara's character especially with her abilities can make for some interesting solo episodes. i really don't care much for romance in this series but it seems for cheetara's character, it has kind of halted her growth in this series so far.

IMO, pumyra has become the A female.

AdamofEternia · 05-13-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

IMO, pumyra has become the A female.

as of right now, she probably is lead heroine of the series. it really sucks when a secondary completely overshadows a lead character.

L08e16o · 05-13-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

as of right now, she probably is lead heroine of the series. it really sucks when a secondary completely overshadows a lead character.

1000% Agree.

vantheman77 · 05-13-2012, 05:13 PM

They said that the few episodes would be dedicated to Pumyra with the Pit, Curse of Ratilla, and Birth of the Blade. Forever Bag should focus on the twins. I think Cheetara will have character moments in the final three episodes of the season and I don't expect Pumyra to be getting the focus in those final three episodes like she is now with these.

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

You haven't been here long but I've more than seen the same thing here. I used to be the only person here even willing to defend Tygra on anything because people would pounce.

LOL, that's why I said from what I've seen.

I am well aware things can change on boards quite quickly.

All that to say, I still find this board to be a tad more impartial for lack of a better word.

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamofEternia

i 100% agree with you and this has been my problem with the way the writers have handled cheetara's character. it seems after she became tygra's girl, her role as cleric has vanished and she constantly fades in to the background. even the newcomer pumyra has gotten so much more important spotlight and screentime than cheetara over the course of the season. i can honestly say i understand the anger towards cheetara's character from the people all over this threads. the reason im ranting is because although i never watched the OS, cheetara's character especially with her abilities can make for some interesting solo episodes. i really don't care much for romance in this series but it seems for cheetara's character, it has kind of halted her growth in this series so far.

That is a very well thought statement and I can't agree with you more.

Hopefully, comments like yours get to the TC staff and give them pause to think about the direction of the show and characters.

FreakinZoid · 05-13-2012, 06:04 PM

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Originally Posted by vantheman77

They said that the few episodes would be dedicated to Pumyra with the Pit, Curse of Ratilla, and Birth of the Blade. Forever Bag should focus on the twins. I think Cheetara will have character moments in the final three episodes of the season and I don't expect Pumyra to be getting the focus in those final three episodes like she is now with these.

You never know. The staff might have anticipated a negative reaction to the events of the season finale and subsequent episodes and toned down the character to try to avoid adding any fuel to the fire.

Or, that interview I watched from Wondercon where Daniel Norton and others were "joking" about Cheetara calling her an anorexic ho with arthritis and a bood job wasn't meant in jest at all and they really do think that low of her character.

IDK.

Sining · 05-13-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

I don't understand your comparison. Are you saying rich people don't want to be rich? or have no control over being rich?

Anyway I wasn't saying it absolved Tygra of all guilt in the matter. I was saying that his PoV is understandable.

Your point was that it didn't matter if Lion-O didn't want whatever Tygra was envying, it was okay for Tygra to dislike him just because he had it and Tygra didn't. Hence my point, if I'm rich, is that reason enough for poor people to dislike me and be an ass to me? Substitute rich/poor with other adjectives like beautiful/ugly, smart/dumb etc. It's still a stupid reason.

AnonymousIncognito · 05-13-2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

Or, that interview I watched from Wondercon where Daniel Norton and others were "joking" about Cheetara calling her an anorexic ho with arthritis and a bood job wasn't meant in jest at all and they really do think that low of her character.

Yeah, the comments from Dan Norton and others did leave a bad taste in the mouths of many fans. The show might have had better viewer numbers if the staff didn't publicly bash the characters. It just takes away their credibility.

Balgus82 · 05-13-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Your point was that it didn't matter if Lion-O didn't want whatever Tygra was envying, it was okay for Tygra to dislike him just because he had it and Tygra didn't. Hence my point, if I'm rich, is that reason enough for poor people to dislike me and be an ass to me? Substitute rich/poor with other adjectives like beautiful/ugly, smart/dumb etc. It's still a stupid reason.

No that wasn't my point. Understanding something and condoning it are not the same things. My point was that I can see Tygra's POV, and understand why he thinks the way he does, not that I share it.

Sining · 05-13-2012, 10:01 PM

I didn't say you shared it. I just said it's a dumb reason either way.

Shadowknight1 · 05-13-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

How many planets support life in our galaxy?

Anyway having something that can blow up a galaxy is fine and all, but what if your goal isn't just to destroy everything in sight? Different weapons for different purposes.

We don't know.

Having a weapon that can blow up a galaxy is a perfectly fine weapon. You do that, tell the people you're planning to invade what you can do and that you will do it to eliminate rebellion. Despite what movies like Star Wars would have you think, fear is a very powerful deterrent.

Since I haven't been able to rewatch some of these, could someone explain all these "characterization regressions"?

Eclipse · 05-14-2012, 12:01 AM

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Originally Posted by L08e16o

The Quiet one was great!!

That explains why you have to spend so much money on flowers, mister!

vantheman77 · 05-14-2012, 12:40 AM

This episode was mostly Lion-O and Pumyra in comparison to last week when it was 5 Thundercats sans the missing twins and Snarf.

Sining · 05-14-2012, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

How many planets support life in our galaxy?

Anyway having something that can blow up a galaxy is fine and all, but what if your goal isn't just to destroy everything in sight? Different weapons for different purposes.

Galaxies and solar systems are totally different things. We can say that there's a very high chance that there are no other inhabited planets in our solar system but considering a galaxy is made out of hundreds, thousands, millions etc of stars, it's ridiculous not to think the death toll wouldn't be insanely high if you destroy an entire galaxy. Just fyi, the milky way galaxy? The one we're in? Contains estimated 200-400 billion stars, of which the sun is but 1.

Balgus82 · 05-14-2012, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sining

Galaxies and solar systems are totally different things. We can say that there's a very high chance that there are no other inhabited planets in our solar system but considering a galaxy is made out of hundreds, thousands, millions etc of stars, it's ridiculous not to think the death toll wouldn't be insanely high if you destroy an entire galaxy. Just fyi, the milky way galaxy? The one we're in? Contains estimated 200-400 billion stars, of which the sun is but 1.

Even so the fact is we have no confirmed intelligent life on any of the other planets in our own galaxy, so I don't see how someone could say it's bogus logic that there's only 3 in that one. Heck we don't even know how big that galaxy was.

SPINMASTER X · 05-14-2012, 02:38 AM

What the heck was up with the part where Mumm-Ra made that pillar that Pumyra was tied to fall and then Lion-O jumped down to saver her and she wasn't tied to it anymore??? They got lazy hahaha.

Sining · 05-14-2012, 02:55 AM

we have no confirmed life because we can't scout that far -_- That's like the old saying, a single frog in a well thinks its the only thing alive in the universe because it can't see outside the well

BB Shockwave · 05-14-2012, 04:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Sining

Finally managed to watch the episode in full.
Also, was it just me or did ancient Mumm-ra actually seem...fond of Leo? "I'd hate to have to replace you" sounds like it was actually spoken with real emotion. Suddenly I have this weird image of Mumm-ra as a father figure and he keeps trying to teach the cats to forgo emotion and seek power instead (emotion VS cold logic I guess) and the cats keep defying him, causing him no end of frustration. Even in the end, when he's talking to Lion-O, he doesn't sound like he wants to kill Lion-O because of any personal reason.

Hmm, to me it rarther seemed like he considers him a favourite pet, but an animal nonetheless. He rather sounded cold and scary there, and I can imagine he was thinking "My, if Leo gets all emotional too, I have to kill him and train myself a new commander, and that takes ages..."

I loved the scene where Leo uses his authority to get the splinters from the rats. As I have just translated episode 07, these two episodes are really getting connected in my memory.

Also... did the spirits take over the blacksmith's body, or just empower him to be able to forge the sword?

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Which brings me to his speech. "Will you be the first of your kind to forsake emotion for power?" Um...what about the Tigers?? Okay, I guess it could be argued that they forsook everything cause of pride, which is an emotion. But I have to wonder at his phrase. Being 'the first of his kind' is sort of a red flag, does that mean there WILL be some cat who will forsake emotion for power later on? And who will it be? Someone not shown yet? Or one of the cast? It won't be Lion-O because that's just now how his char is built and it shows in this episode.

It's even more weird that Mumm-Ra says that when he knows Lion-O would not be the first... Grune was. He betrayed his king and his best friend to gain the power he desired.

Quote:

Also, a few people have been talking about which one Panthera seems more like, Cheetara or Pumyra. My own personal opinion is Cheetara; their names even sound more familiar. But more because when Panthera chides Leo, she does so calmly while Pumyra is far more likely to snark; see all the time she calls Lion-O king derisively.

IMHO she is totally different from both. She has a very strong personality (episode 7 kinda shows her as a taskmaster for the animals) and a no-nonesense attitude, and she speaks what's on her mind, but she also can be gentle and caring towards Leo. Anyway, it's rather pointless to compare her to others, as she is long gone.
I am more curious about how the whole "only lions can be kings" bloodline thing started, because obviously, Leo's love was not a lion. Probably as time passed, myths and legends obscured the role Panthera played in the rebellion, placing all glory on Leo and thus the lions? Also, I'd like to learn just how long ago was it that the ship crashed... since everyone forgot about Mumm-Ra's pyramid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito

Yeah, the comments from Dan Norton and others did leave a bad taste in the mouths of many fans. The show might have had better viewer numbers if the staff didn't publicly bash the characters. It just takes away their credibility.

You do realize that most viewers never watch interviews and just turn on the TV to see what's on? As much as you'd like to think, this show is made for a new audience. We can be glad it has so many callbacks and homages to the old series, but it is made FOR KIDS. They are the ones who'll be buying the toys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stac

You should be used to this by now seeing as such inconsistently in characterisation is now a trademark of the show.
If the plot requires it then character development will regress, no matter how strange it seems.

Really? So you think it is perfectly reasonable that after watching people you cared for die around you, getting worked to death or sent to die for the rats in the mines by getting the sword... you forget about it and never ever bring it up to the king who (let's face it) went on a revenge-quest after his father died and forgot about any and all survivors? Remember how Lion-O wanted to leave the kittens behind in episode 3?

Sining · 05-14-2012, 04:13 AM

You can still be fond of pets even if you think they're below humans though. My main point is that MummRa seems fond of Leo, even if he's willing to kill him. Ie. Leo is not random mook to him. We haven't seen him be that way to any of his new generals yet.

Hmm, Grune was a traitor. I wonder why they forgot about him during that speech. Did Grune not register on Mumm-ras mind or maybe Grune didn't manage to forsake emotion for power. I suspect when Mumm-ra says power, he means cold logic/order/power and people who use emotional feelings to fight and decide stuff like the tigers, cats, grune are below him. Hence his whole emphasis on bringing 'order' to chaos.

BB Shockwave · 05-14-2012, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

Sorry to tell you SS but even I have noticed there seems to be more fans agreeing on a Lion-o/Cheetara pairing than anything else.

Actually, one of the reasons why I never signed up at TClair was after reading many of the comments, it did seem like the Tygrashipping was above average crazy there. Not saying there aren't fans of others on that site but they seem to get drowned out by the Tygra fans.

No need for you to throw in that last line. All it does it make you seem like a spolied child who wants to take their toys and go home because they don't like how the other kids are playing.

Can we NOT talk about stupid shipping anymore, please?

This is a cartoon, what happens will happen because it's written that way. It's pretty stupid to argue that you'd like things to have a different outcome in an OFFICAL story. If you want that, write a fanfic, but it won't change the official media.

I much prefer to discuss what happened in a show than what people would like to happen in a show. That's for fanfics.

BB Shockwave · 05-14-2012, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito

I can see Lion-o being the reincarnation of Leo but to not Pumyra being a reincarnation of Panthera.

With Pumyra, I see the Crew doing more of a cliche "history repeats itself" spin since Lion-O's mother the Queen bore a striking resemblance to a Puma aka a Mountain Lion.

Scary really; yet another way Thunercats 2011 mirrors Harry Potter.

Um, no, she is NOT.

Lion-O's mother was a LION. Pumyra is a PUMA (Cougar, as you americans call them).

BB Shockwave · 05-14-2012, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito

Not to mention Korra actually put story lines to their triangles.

All Thundercats did was destroy 11 epidoes of actual story with a poorly done flashback and an even more poorly done choice of character pairing.

Pfff.... 'Destroy'? Really? You think 11 episodes were all about Lion-O's anc Cheetara's love relationship? So I guess all the stuff that happened in those episodes, as well as the revelation of the cats and Mumm-Ra's joint history was just filler, eh? You are ridiculous.

Btw, why are people calling Pumyra 'Myra'? Are two more letters too hard to type?

KaleRylan · 05-14-2012, 05:07 AM

Okay, this episode is a perfect example of everything that is wrong, and everything that is right with this show. It was a lot of fun to watch, but it was RIDDLED with plot-holes, character inconsistencies, and just plain not doing the damn research.

1. The galaxy thing. The writers are clearly morons who didn't do the most basic scientific research on what a galaxy versus a solar system is. They continuously call what they're destroying a galaxy, and the animation depicts a galaxy, yet every single time they describe it, they are describing a SOLAR SYSTEM. They need to destroy one star which supports ten planets, three of which have life on them. That is a SOLAR SYSTEM. Destroying one star would not even come CLOSE to producing enough energy to destroy a galaxy. The difference in scale is so huge as to be meaningless. Also, as others have pointed out, if he can destroy galaxies, he doesn't need a sword. Full stop.

2. What the hell happened to Pumyra? I'm actually glad she regressed, because I think she was too nice too fast last episode, but unfortunately in light of last episode, she just comes off as schizophrenic for no reason.

-On a somewhat separate note, I'm completely with Pumyra as far as the slaves go. Does no one among the thundercats even care about their people? Greater good or no, they just kept ignoring her points about the slaves and side-stepping the issue. I get the whole 'good of the many' thing, but when the few in question is most of your species, then that's not quite few enough to sacrifice them for the many.

3. Was anyone in the episode actually seeing the flashbacks? It seems like they actually had nothing to do with the plot. In Legacy, Lion-o was experiencing the flashbacks. But in this, other than a sense of death and destruction, I'm not sure Lion-o, or anyone in the story, was actually aware of the flashbacks.

4. Really? They tried splitting up? Splitting up NEVER works in media. EVER. And Lion-o actually gave the weapon the demon-creature wanted to a girl who had absolutely no way of defending against said demon-creature if he caught up to her? That was just a dumb scene.

All that aside, it was still pretty fun, so I guess whatever.

On a side note, anyone else think we may have just seen the hammer of thundera?

Sining · 05-14-2012, 05:56 AM

apparently adult female cats tend to be bipolar. Just saying, based on the 2 in-show examples we have >_>

AnonymousIncognito · 05-14-2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

Um, no, she is NOT.

Lion-O's mother was a LION. Pumyra is a PUMA (Cougar, as you americans call them).

We Americans also call the puma/cougar a Mountain LION.

Swing and a miss sport.

AnonymousIncognito · 05-14-2012, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

Pfff.... 'Destroy'? Really? You think 11 episodes were all about Lion-O's anc Cheetara's love relationship? So I guess all the stuff that happened in those episodes, as well as the revelation of the cats and Mumm-Ra's joint history was just filler, eh? You are ridiculous.

Btw, why are people calling Pumyra 'Myra'? Are two more letters too hard to type?

Actually sport, the remark was in relation to the triangle.

Ease back on your estrogen pills BB, your getting a bit tempermental.

05-13-2012, 03:03 PM	#169
AdamofEternia Thunder Kitty Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 136	Quote: Originally Posted by CCDustyV You know, ever since Between Brothers, she's just become very, overly submissive. What happened to the fire we saw in her in the first 13 eps. I think that's my biggest problem with the whole Tygra/Cheetara situation, not only did it come out of nowhere, but she's become nothing more than armcandy for Tygra. How has she exactly contributed to the team besides finally being able to bust open the lock on the Sword of Plundarr last week? i 100% agree with you and this has been my problem with the way the writers have handled cheetara's character. it seems after she became tygra's girl, her role as cleric has vanished and she constantly fades in to the background. even the newcomer pumyra has gotten so much more important spotlight and screentime than cheetara over the course of the season. i can honestly say i understand the anger towards cheetara's character from the people all over this threads. the reason im ranting is because although i never watched the OS, cheetara's character especially with her abilities can make for some interesting solo episodes. i really don't care much for romance in this series but it seems for cheetara's character, it has kind of halted her growth in this series so far. Last edited by AdamofEternia; 05-13-2012 at 03:05 PM..

05-13-2012, 03:57 PM	#172
L08e16o Survivor of the Anointment Trials Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,481	Quote: Originally Posted by Balgus82 She didn't? She still has no boyfriend. Mako is going out with that other chick. My point is she will win in the triangle. She is the lead. It is early too in the show. Last edited by L08e16o; 05-13-2012 at 04:01 PM..

05-14-2012, 02:16 AM	#189
Balgus82 Survivor of the Anointment Trials Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,267	Quote: Originally Posted by Sining Galaxies and solar systems are totally different things. We can say that there's a very high chance that there are no other inhabited planets in our solar system but considering a galaxy is made out of hundreds, thousands, millions etc of stars, it's ridiculous not to think the death toll wouldn't be insanely high if you destroy an entire galaxy. Just fyi, the milky way galaxy? The one we're in? Contains estimated 200-400 billion stars, of which the sun is but 1. Even so the fact is we have no confirmed intelligent life on any of the other planets in our own galaxy, so I don't see how someone could say it's bogus logic that there's only 3 in that one. Heck we don't even know how big that galaxy was. Last edited by Balgus82; 05-14-2012 at 02:19 AM..

05-14-2012, 04:05 AM	#192
BB Shockwave Thunder Kitty Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Hungary Posts: 115	Quote: Originally Posted by Sining Finally managed to watch the episode in full. Also, was it just me or did ancient Mumm-ra actually seem...fond of Leo? "I'd hate to have to replace you" sounds like it was actually spoken with real emotion. Suddenly I have this weird image of Mumm-ra as a father figure and he keeps trying to teach the cats to forgo emotion and seek power instead (emotion VS cold logic I guess) and the cats keep defying him, causing him no end of frustration. Even in the end, when he's talking to Lion-O, he doesn't sound like he wants to kill Lion-O because of any personal reason. Hmm, to me it rarther seemed like he considers him a favourite pet, but an animal nonetheless. He rather sounded cold and scary there, and I can imagine he was thinking "My, if Leo gets all emotional too, I have to kill him and train myself a new commander, and that takes ages..." I loved the scene where Leo uses his authority to get the splinters from the rats. As I have just translated episode 07, these two episodes are really getting connected in my memory. Also... did the spirits take over the blacksmith's body, or just empower him to be able to forge the sword? Quote: Which brings me to his speech. "Will you be the first of your kind to forsake emotion for power?" Um...what about the Tigers?? Okay, I guess it could be argued that they forsook everything cause of pride, which is an emotion. But I have to wonder at his phrase. Being 'the first of his kind' is sort of a red flag, does that mean there WILL be some cat who will forsake emotion for power later on? And who will it be? Someone not shown yet? Or one of the cast? It won't be Lion-O because that's just now how his char is built and it shows in this episode. It's even more weird that Mumm-Ra says that when he knows Lion-O would not be the first... Grune was. He betrayed his king and his best friend to gain the power he desired. Quote: Also, a few people have been talking about which one Panthera seems more like, Cheetara or Pumyra. My own personal opinion is Cheetara; their names even sound more familiar. But more because when Panthera chides Leo, she does so calmly while Pumyra is far more likely to snark; see all the time she calls Lion-O king derisively. IMHO she is totally different from both. She has a very strong personality (episode 7 kinda shows her as a taskmaster for the animals) and a no-nonesense attitude, and she speaks what's on her mind, but she also can be gentle and caring towards Leo. Anyway, it's rather pointless to compare her to others, as she is long gone. I am more curious about how the whole "only lions can be kings" bloodline thing started, because obviously, Leo's love was not a lion. Probably as time passed, myths and legends obscured the role Panthera played in the rebellion, placing all glory on Leo and thus the lions? Also, I'd like to learn just how long ago was it that the ship crashed... since everyone forgot about Mumm-Ra's pyramid. Quote: Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito Yeah, the comments from Dan Norton and others did leave a bad taste in the mouths of many fans. The show might have had better viewer numbers if the staff didn't publicly bash the characters. It just takes away their credibility. You do realize that most viewers never watch interviews and just turn on the TV to see what's on? As much as you'd like to think, this show is made for a new audience. We can be glad it has so many callbacks and homages to the old series, but it is made FOR KIDS. They are the ones who'll be buying the toys. Quote: Originally Posted by stac You should be used to this by now seeing as such inconsistently in characterisation is now a trademark of the show. If the plot requires it then character development will regress, no matter how strange it seems. Really? So you think it is perfectly reasonable that after watching people you cared for die around you, getting worked to death or sent to die for the rats in the mines by getting the sword... you forget about it and never ever bring it up to the king who (let's face it) went on a revenge-quest after his father died and forgot about any and all survivors? Remember how Lion-O wanted to leave the kittens behind in episode 3? Last edited by BB Shockwave; 05-14-2012 at 04:18 AM..