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Old 03-28-2012, 04:45 PM   #351
Balgus82
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Originally Posted by KurtulanSama View Post
This is actually knowing about the enemy. In this kind of situation you act based on your information. If you don't have any, act on the worst possible outcome.

The only info they had about the enemy that Slithe wanted them dead. I would play on that. The only cat that could leave as a prisoner was cheetara(to lift the guarding magic on sword). Presuming otherwise is naivity.

Edit: You think with an honest person's mind. Twist your logic. This was something they did to make cats surrender. Can you think of any reason why they should let cats live? I will accept any logical reasoning.
Slavery. We already know from the crew that Mumm-Ra kept some of the survivors from Thundera as slaves. And I would think seeing their king as a slave beside them would keep the slaves morale low.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #352
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Kinda funny on how the original voice actor of Lion-O now plays his father Claudus.
Looking forward to episode 15, I want a break from all the I love you but I hate you at the same time for betraying me (Lion-O and Cheetara), and the all my life I proved I was better than you, why was I not chosen (Tygra) drama that the writers seem to have carved into stone.
15 is worse to me. But I do enjoy the kiss though.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:49 PM   #353
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Who said that?
He's probably referring to one of the times Cmangund and I were throwing out wacky theories
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:50 PM   #354
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Who said that?
He's probably referring to one of the times Cmangund and I were throwing out wacky theories. And I did say that logically Lion-o would be right to banish Cheetara for dereliction of duty, since her surrender could have gotten them killed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:53 PM   #355
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Your argument that they would've all died anyway only holds credit with the knowledge that came after she had already made her decision.

You have to think of what she knew when she made the decision. She didn't know they would all be killed anyway. They were given the choice to either surrender or let Tygra die, so she surrendered.

Slithe certainly never said "Surrender and you'll all die."
As I mentioned, Slythe has constantly made his desire to outright kill the ThunderCats known (e.g. Song of the Petalars).
Why couldn’t Cheetara have assumed that Slythe was being deceptive? It seems a reasonable assumption to make. Accepting a "surrender or die" command from Slythe at face value seems incredibly naive.

As KurtulanSama said, in such a situation you should act assuming worst possible outcome, which would the death of all three.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:54 PM   #356
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15 is worse to me. But I do enjoy the kiss though.
At least "spirit Cheetara" won't lead Lion-o on.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:55 PM   #357
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He's probably referring to one of the times Cmangund and I were throwing out wacky theories
I was going to say that we don't want any of the cats to die.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:55 PM   #358
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At least "spirit Cheetara" won't lead Lion-o on.
You are not lying about that.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:55 PM   #359
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Sorry, I meant do you think we will find out about his past like he is the native son?
Oh, that. I really don't know, maybe that he and Bengali are brothers separated upon the death of their parents and while Tygra was adopted and raised by Claudus Bengali was taken in by Pumyra's family who were middle or lower class.

I don't think "Native Son" will focus as much on Tygra as the fans think. The crew has been very up front that the first season is pretty much all about Lion-O and his development and we're still technically in the "first" season as it was plotted by the creators.

We'll get to see what the other cats are up to as they try to regain what was lost, but for the most part the story will still focus on Lion-O as he comes out of his trials and tries to heal up.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:57 PM   #360
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So true!!
Isn't that the way it is in most shows?
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:58 PM   #361
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Oh, that. I really don't know, maybe that he and Bengali are brothers separated upon the death of their parents and while Tygra was adopted and raised by Claudus Bengali was taken in by Pumyra's family who were middle or lower class.

I don't think "Native Son" will focus as much on Tygra as the fans think. The crew has been very up front that the first season is pretty much all about Lion-O and his development and we're still technically in the "first" season as it was plotted by the creators.

We'll get to see what the other cats are up to as they try to regain what was lost, but for the most part the story will still focus on Lion-O as he comes out of his trials and tries to heal up.
So we might get to see a T/P/B triangle.

I am a big fan of T/P even if lion-o never gets with cheetara.

How long do you think the triangle will go?
I wish you would post more!!

I was hoping we would learn a little on tygra.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:58 PM   #362
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As I mentioned, Slythe has constantly made his desire to outright kill the ThunderCats known (e.g. Song of the Petalars).
Why couldn’t Cheetara have assumed that Slythe was being deceptive? It seems a reasonable assumption to make. Accepting a "surrender or die" command from Slythe at face value seems incredibly naive.

As KurtulanSama said, in such a situation you should act assuming worst possible outcome, which would the death of all three.
I think she acted for the best possible outcome instead of the worse.

Basically these were the possible options (not knowing Panthro was coming).
1. She surrenders and they all die.
2. She surrenders and they get taken prisoner.
3. She fights and they all die.
4. She fights and they win, but Tygra dies.

Idk maybe I'm as naive as she is, but I would try for option 2.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #363
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So we might get to see a T/P/B triangle.

I am a big fan of T/P even if lion-o never gets with cheetara.

How long do you think the triangle will go?
I wish you would post more!!

I was hoping we would learn a little on tygra.
I think I read a spoiler about Lion-o and Tygra encountering a clan of tigers. Maybe that will tell us more about Tygra.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #364
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He's probably referring to one of the times Cmangund and I were throwing out wacky theories. And I did say that logically Lion-o would be right to banish Cheetara for dereliction of duty, since her surrender could have gotten them killed.
Well look at what Authur did to Gwen in the Merlin series.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #365
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So we might get to see a T/P/B triangle.

I am a big fan of T/P even if lion-o never gets with cheetara.

How long do you think the triangle will go?
I wish you would post more!!

I was hoping we would learn a little on tygra.
I'm willing to lay odds that Pumyra and Bengali will have more of a brother/sister relationship, and if Pumyra get with anyone it'll be Lion-O (I have this whole crazy theory about Florence Nightingale Syndrome and Pumyra nursing Lion-O back to health).

I also did some sketches for Pumyra if you'd like to see them.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:04 PM   #366
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I think I read a spoiler about Lion-o and Tygra encountering a clan of tigers. Maybe that will tell us more about Tygra.
I am hoping survival of the fittest is Bengali vs Tygra. Give lion-o a break from the brother fighting.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:07 PM   #367
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I'm willing to lay odds that Pumyra and Bengali will have more of a brother/sister relationship, and if Pumyra get with anyone it'll be Lion-O (I have this whole crazy theory about Florence Nightingale Syndrome and Pumyra nursing Lion-O back to health).

I also did some sketches for Pumyra if you'd like to see them.
If that happens, I will quit the show. I feel like the whole L/C/T would be a waste.

My theroy is that legacy was a foreshadowing of what is going to happen.

If you don't mind, yeah.

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Old 03-28-2012, 05:07 PM   #368
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Any news on when the other episodes are airing? Or is it gonna take another break?
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #369
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I think I read a spoiler about Lion-o and Tygra encountering a clan of tigers. Maybe that will tell us more about Tygra.
That is what I am hoping for.

In the CN promo, you can see a thone in a hut where lion-o and tygra are standing.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:11 PM   #370
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Any news on when the other episodes are airing? Or is it gonna take another break?
I think there going to be new episodes on Saturday morning,for the foreseeable future for now.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:13 PM   #371
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I think there going to be new episodes on Saturday morning,for the foreseeable future for now.


Awesome, was gonna get a little pissed if I learned that they plan on taking another break.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:15 PM   #372
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As I mentioned, Slythe has constantly made his desire to outright kill the ThunderCats known (e.g. Song of the Petalars).
Why couldn’t Cheetara have assumed that Slythe was being deceptive? It seems a reasonable assumption to make. Accepting a "surrender or die" command from Slythe at face value seems incredibly naive.

As KurtulanSama said, in such a situation you should act assuming worst possible outcome, which would the death of all three.
Agreed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #373
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I think she acted for the best possible outcome instead of the worse.

Basically these were the possible options (not knowing Panthro was coming).
1. She surrenders and they all die.
2. She surrenders and they get taken prisoner.
3. She fights and they all die.
4. She fights and they win, but Tygra dies.

Idk maybe I'm as naive as she is, but I would try for option 2.
There should be a 5th outcome, even though it may be very unlikely:
5. She fights and they all survive.

Anyway, I would have to disagree with option 2. She should never have assumed that Slythe would have let any of them live due to the reasons I mentioned before.

Also, I don't think she "acted for the best possible outcome." Her's was more like a knee-jerk reaction. Tygra was in danger, so she just HAD to "stick with him" (a very revealing line).

You are right about one thing. In hindsight, if we are to assume that surrender would lead to certain death for all, it would narrow down the choices.

Anyway, I liked this ‘argument’. It was entertaining. Cheers.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #374
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OK guys/girls I will get to the point. With this episode.

I you guys watched "We Were Solediers" with Mel Gilbson. The went guns blazin know fully that they were going to die. In an army, one does not surrender to the enemy just because a few soldiers have been captured. If that would have been the case, all you have to do to win a battle to capture a few soldiers and you're set. Lion-O did the logical thing. We you really believe the enemy when they say "surrender or he die"? Would you REALLY trust them?
They're ruthless enemies.

Now for T/C

I'm taking no sides to this. I just observing it from the victims point of view. She knew she was leading him. Those who support the T/C, I have nothing against the T/C. If guys/girls (Hardcore Tigra fans) would be in Lion-O shoes, you would react differently. No way one would be alright with what happened last episode. You would not trust a person to get close to you emotionally--- More so after they overrule you decision. Balgus82 said that if Tigra because Lion-O decided to continue fight is absurd. In war, no whats to see anyone die but in reality it not going to happen. People will die.

It not good to let Tigra to die but when the table turns (Lion-O dies) it ok move on. This is not cool. I must say.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #375
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OK guys/girls I will get to the point. With this episode.

I you guys watched "We Were Solediers" with Mel Gilbson. The went guns blazin know fully that they were going to die. In an army, one does not surrender to the enemy just because a few soldiers have been captured. If that would have been the case, all you have to do to win a battle to capture a few soldiers and you're set. Lion-O did the logical thing. We you really believe the enemy when they say "surrender or he die"? Would you REALLY trust them?
They're ruthless enemies.

Now for T/C

I'm taking no sides to this. I just observing it from the victims point of view. She knew she was leading him. Those who support the T/C, I have nothing against the T/C. If guys/girls (Hardcore Tigra fans) would be in Lion-O shoes, you would react differently. No way one would be alright with what happened last episode. You would not trust a person to get close to you emotionally--- More so after they overrule you decision. Balgus82 said that if Tigra because Lion-O decided to continue fight is absurd. In war, no whats to see anyone die but in reality it not going to happen. People will die.

It not good to let Tigra to die but when the table turns (Lion-O dies) it ok move on. This is not cool. I must say.
You're not lying someone does die in the next episode.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #376
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OK guys/girls I will get to the point. With this episode.

I you guys watched "We Were Solediers" with Mel Gilbson. The went guns blazin know fully that they were going to die. In an army, one does not surrender to the enemy just because a few soldiers have been captured. If that would have been the case, all you have to do to win a battle to capture a few soldiers and you're set. Lion-O did the logical thing. We you really believe the enemy when they say "surrender or he die"? Would you REALLY trust them?
They're ruthless enemies.
In an Army there are more soldiers to take your place after you die. The Thundercats are not an army. If one of them dies there's no one to replace them.

Say something like this battle would keep happening. And one person would keep getting captured. Lion-O keeps fighting, and the one captured dies. After a while Lion-O's going to be fighting by himself.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:47 PM   #377
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In an Army there are more soldiers to take your place after you die. The Thundercats are not an army. If one of them dies there's no one to replace them.

Say something like this battle would keep happening. And one person would keep getting captured. Lion-O keeps fighting, and the one captured dies. After a while Lion-O's going to be fighting by himself.
You don't have time to plan for the next battle, you have to focus on the battle at hand.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #378
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I love "New Alliances" because a lot of what happens with the characters is morally neutral and no one is completely "right" or "wrong."

Lion-O is right to stand up for the recaptured Lizards and working without the knowledge of new generals he made a solid command decision based on what knowledge he had available.
Cheetarah's excuse of "Jaga told me to" is a bit of a cop out. Yes he asked her to look after Lion-O but she still lead him on and isn't taking responsibility for hurting him. He shouldn't say he's fine with things if he isn't, but he's trying to be a good brother and put on a good face for Tygra.
Tygra is still insubordinate and letting his prejudices blind him to the bigger picture, but he still sees the Lizards as the people that killed his father so his apathy is understandable.
The stand of is the best yet, both sides are both right and wrong for different reasons. Cheetarah did give up way too easily, but taking the chance of sacrificing Tygra, even if she didn't care about him is cold. Lion-O was probably betting that Tygra could find a way out of it, but he's still betting with his brother's life.

Like I said, great episode.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:12 PM   #379
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I love "New Alliances" because a lot of what happens with the characters is morally neutral and no one is completely "right" or "wrong."

Lion-O is right to stand up for the recaptured Lizards and working without the knowledge of new generals he made a solid command decision based on what knowledge he had available.
Cheetarah's excuse of "Jaga told me to" is a bit of a cop out. Yes he asked her to look after Lion-O but she still lead him on and isn't taking responsibility for hurting him. He shouldn't say he's fine with things if he isn't, but he's trying to be a good brother and put on a good face for Tygra.
Tygra is still insubordinate and letting his prejudices blind him to the bigger picture, but he still sees the Lizards as the people that killed his father so his apathy is understandable.
The stand of is the best yet, both sides are both right and wrong for different reasons. Cheetarah did give up way too easily, but taking the chance of sacrificing Tygra, even if she didn't care about him is cold. Lion-O was probably betting that Tygra could find a way out of it, but he's still betting with his brother's life.

Like I said, great episode.
I think lion-o thought tygra would get out of it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:23 PM   #380
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I think lion-o thought tygra would get out of it.
I'm pretty sure that Lion-o thought that by he and Cheetara continuing to fight, it would have given Tygra enough time to escape. Like you said about ep 15, that would have been the way ep 14 should have gone.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:25 PM   #381
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In an Army there are more soldiers to take your place after you die.
How could you say that?

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Old 03-28-2012, 06:29 PM   #382
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I'm pretty sure that Lion-o thought that by he and Cheetara continuing to fight, it would have given Tygra enough time to escape. Like you said about ep 15, that would have been the way ep 14 should have gone.
Agreed. I think tygra does not care about uniting the animals.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #383
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In an Army there are more soldiers to take your place after you die. The Thundercats are not an army. If one of them dies there's no one to replace them.

Say something like this battle would keep happening. And one person would keep getting captured. Lion-O keeps fighting, and the one captured dies. After a while Lion-O's going to be fighting by himself.
They're not an army but the are a fight force. Think about about like this in Saving Private Ryan" the yhad a small group the specialized in different thing. ex. sniping, medic, translator, etc... When they lost someone the kept on going but never forgot about them. They were like brothers but they did never surrender when it looked grim and bleak. saying that Lion-O will eventually fight alone is absurd. You assume that they fall for the same trap over and over again. You make Lion-O seem as if he deliberately leave Tygra to his death so that he can keep Cheetara. I doesn't make sense. I already got her answer. Why would he want her now. If anything--- he doesn't want to be near near (emotionally). Your placing Tygra's manipulative personally on to Lion-O. Remember, Tigra wanted to KILL Lion-O so that he could be the next King.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:33 PM   #384
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Agreed. I think tygra does not care about uniting the animals.
Yeah, I think that Tygra thinks that uniting the animals is a waste of time. I wonder what it will take to change his mind?
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:40 PM   #385
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Yeah, I think that Tygra thinks that uniting the animals is a waste of time. I wonder what it will take to change his mind?
Episode 16.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:41 PM   #386
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They're not an army but the are a fight force. Think about about like this in Saving Private Ryan" the yhad a small group the specialized in different thing. ex. sniping, medic, translator, etc... When they lost someone the kept on going but never forgot about them. They were like brothers but they did never surrender when it looked grim and bleak. saying that Lion-O will eventually fight alone is absurd. You assume that they fall for the same trap over and over again. You make Lion-O seem as if he deliberately leave Tygra to his death so that he can keep Cheetara. I doesn't make sense. I already got her answer. Why would he want her now. If anything--- he doesn't want to be near near (emotionally). Your placing Tygra's manipulative personally on to Lion-O. Remember, Tigra wanted to KILL Lion-O so that he could be the next King.
To me he is crushed by her three times and then we get what happens in 15. I don't think he thougth that wouldn't happen.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #387
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You make Lion-O seem as if he deliberately leave Tygra to his death so that he can keep Cheetara. I doesn't make sense. I already got her answer. Why would he want her now. If anything--- he doesn't want to be near near (emotionally). Your placing Tygra's manipulative personally on to Lion-O. Remember, Tigra wanted to KILL Lion-O so that he could be the next King.
I have done no such thing. I never once even alluded to a motive for Lion-O wanting to continue to fight.

And btw if Tygra really wanted to kill Lion-O then Lion-O would be dead right now. No one was there to stop him.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:16 PM   #388
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I have done no such thing. I never once even alluded to a motive for Lion-O wanting to continue to fight.

And btw if Tygra really wanted to kill Lion-O then Lion-O would be dead right now. No one was there to stop him.
The only reason Lion-o survived in the pit was because he was able to hold onto something/find solid ground. And don't start with that "Tygra was manipulated" bs, you wouldn't say the same for a drunk driver, would you?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:23 PM   #389
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The only reason Lion-o survived in the pit was because he was able to hold onto something/find solid ground. And don't start with that "Tygra was manipulated" bs, you wouldn't say the same for a drunk driver, would you?
Don't forget lion-o saying father. He would've left him there to die.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:33 PM   #390
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Don't forget lion-o saying father. He would've left him there to die.
I wonder if their going to reveal the source of Tygra's issues anytime soon?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:34 PM   #391
Sining
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Originally Posted by Balgus82 View Post
Slavery. We already know from the crew that Mumm-Ra kept some of the survivors from Thundera as slaves. And I would think seeing their king as a slave beside them would keep the slaves morale low.
Having their king's decapitated head paraded in front of them would probably be better.

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In an Army there are more soldiers to take your place after you die. The Thundercats are not an army. If one of them dies there's no one to replace them.

Say something like this battle would keep happening. And one person would keep getting captured. Lion-O keeps fighting, and the one captured dies. After a while Lion-O's going to be fighting by himself.
Of course, and having 3 people get captured and then executed is so much better.

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I have done no such thing. I never once even alluded to a motive for Lion-O wanting to continue to fight.

And btw if Tygra really wanted to kill Lion-O then Lion-O would be dead right now. No one was there to stop him.
Yes...Tygra did try to kill Lion-O once already didn't he....I almost forgot about that. I don't really see how that helped your point though
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #392
L08e16o
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I wonder if their going to reveal the source of Tygra's issues anytime soon?
I always thought it was the crown.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #393
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I always thought it was the crown.
I wonder if when they show the episode with the lost clan of tigers, if we'll finally see how Claudus came to adopt Tygra?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:57 PM   #394
L08e16o
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I wonder if when they show the episode with the lost clan of tigers, if we'll finally see how Claudus came to adopt Tygra?
I hope. I am hoping he is a prince to the throne to that clan and he has to battle the other tiger who is on the throne.

TCats are going to need more help.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:57 PM   #395
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Here’s a summary of the arguments in defence of Lion-O/against Cheetara:

- Lion-O decision to attempt to free the captured lizards was rational and completely fit in with his ultimate vision of uniting the animals. Even his attempt to do so on his own may be justified as he was able to hold his own against an entire battalion (at the beginning of the episode). Also, he had no knowledge that Kaynar and Addicus would be there.

- Slythe, on Mumm-Ra’s orders had been hunting the ThunderCats since the fall of Thundera. He had made his intention to kill the ThunderCats known. For example, he may have succeeded in the ‘Song of The Petalars’ if Panthro hadn’t come to their rescue.

- Knowing this, Cheetara’s decision to surrender and take Slythe at this word can be viewed as incredibly naïve. Without speculating, the only logical option to maximise the positive outcome was to continue the fight, which Lion-O got right.

- Cheetara’s decision was an emotionally motivated, knee-jerk reaction (“I need to stick with him.”). She disregarded her own advice about “sticking together” and undermined Lion-O authority on the battlefield, right in front of the enemy.

- Cheetara, a Cleric, directly defied Lion-O, the Lord of the ThunderCats, who she is sworn to protect, nearly getting him killed. Moreover, any rational person in a ‘bodyguard’ type role would give precedence to the King over a Prince.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:00 PM   #396
L08e16o
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I wonder if when they show the episode with the lost clan of tigers, if we'll finally see how Claudus came to adopt Tygra?
I like to know if mummra has learned how to break the spell (Cheetara)?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:01 PM   #397
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Here’s a summary of the arguments in defence of Lion-O/against Cheetara:

- Lion-O decision to attempt to free the captured lizards was rational and completely fit in with his ultimate vision of uniting the animals. Even his attempt to do so on his own may be justified as he was able to hold his own against an entire battalion (at the beginning of the episode). Also, he had no knowledge that Kaynar and Addicus would be there.

- Slythe, on Mumm-Ra’s orders had been hunting the ThunderCats since the fall of Thundera. He had made his intention to kill the ThunderCats known. For example, he may have succeeded in the ‘Song of The Petalars’ if Panthro hadn’t come to their rescue.

- Knowing this, Cheetara’s decision to surrender and take Slythe at this word can be viewed as incredibly naïve. Without speculating, the only logical option to maximise the positive outcome was to continue the fight, which Lion-O got right.

- Cheetara’s decision was an emotionally motivated, knee-jerk reaction (“I need to stick with him.”). She disregarded her own advice about “sticking together” and undermined Lion-O authority on the battlefield, right in front of the enemy.

- Cheetara, a Cleric, directly defied Lion-O, the Lord of the ThunderCats, who she is sworn to protect, nearly getting him killed. Moreover, any rational person in a ‘bodyguard’ type role would give precedence to the King over a Prince.
Agree.

She could of thrown her staff to buy time for tygra and used her speed to get the staff.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:08 PM   #398
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The only reason Lion-o survived in the pit was because he was able to hold onto something/find solid ground. And don't start with that "Tygra was manipulated" bs, you wouldn't say the same for a drunk driver, would you?
Tygra pulled Lion-O out. And even if Lion-O climbed back up on his own Tygra could've easily knocked him down again.

And Drunk driving is not the same because when you driving drunk you're actually choosing to drink and drive. Tygra neither chose to be influenced or knew he was being influenced until after he came to his senses.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:12 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Balgus82 View Post
Tygra pulled Lion-O out. And even if Lion-O climbed back up on his own Tygra could've easily knocked him down again.

And Drunk driving is not the same because when you driving drunk you're actually choosing to drink and drive. Tygra neither chose to be influenced or knew he was being influenced until after he came to his senses.
I'm also talking about when they were little.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:12 PM   #400
L08e16o
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Tygra pulled Lion-O out. And even if Lion-O climbed back up on his own Tygra could've easily knocked him down again.

And Drunk driving is not the same because when you driving drunk you're actually choosing to drink and drive. Tygra neither chose to be influenced or knew he was being influenced until after he came to his senses.
You are responsible for your actions.
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