Wilykit's outfit
 

Okay, look, I am not trying to start a fight or anything or troll. But when the 8 year old female character is dressed more scantily clad than the adult one, I question who is in charge of the designs. :confused:

I'm not sure about others, but I personally don't think it's any worse than the outfit she wore in the original show. Besides, within the topic at-hand, nothing is worse than seeing them all nude in the first episode of the original show, lol.

Then again, the only character who's choice of clothing has really ever caught my attention during an episode has been Cheetara (grown-up Cheetara that is). I'm a straight, adult, male, who's oddly been attracted to female cartoon characters before, so....yeah (I can't be the only one on here).

I think her outfit is kinda cute. I may not have liked it at first, but it's really grown on me. I can't wait till me and my friend get our cosplays done haha.

I like the variation from her original outfit but it still takes some cues from the original.

As for an in-universe explanation, well, she and her brother are street kids. It looked to me like both of their outfits were things they made from bits and pieces they either had before or found. I would wager her split outfit may have been made from an old one piece she had that she outgrew but had to make work.

And yet, how convenient, the boy is fully clothed. :rolleyes:

Good grief....

I don't like the bare midriff on Kit either but I do like the other nods to Kit's original costume.

Maybe who knows?
you're thinking a little too heavily on Wilykit's outfit.
All they did was modify the original one slightly, instead of it being a one-piece It's a two-piece now.
Besides would you want her running around in that cloth that she had in the first two episodes?

Actually, I much prefer Wilykit and Wilkykat's old outfits, they were simple and didn't have so much going on.

Also, the thought of what happened to to the original owners of their new outfits is horrifying. :(

yes it's horrifying, because everyone is dead.
in the episode "The Duelist and the Drifter" when Lion-O is trying to get supplies his money is not accepted. And I can't remember the exact line said but it's something like
"the cats are ancient history" or something like that.
implying that most of the Thunderians are dead, or at least that's what is assumed by the rest of the world.
So I don't think the owners of new clothes are going to be missing them much.

I know you're just sharing your thoughts but I thought I'd put in my own two cents:)

If we are going to complain about outfits, Wilykat in the original series isn't wearing any pants.
I don't believe when Jaga gave them their "protective clothing"
he thought "you know what let's make sure Lion-O has his stomach exposed.
and give Wilykat no pants."
So I just can't see why you have a problem with Wilykit's new outfit.
I understand you like the old one better, but there's no problem with the new outfit.

I was meaning the tattered clothes that Wilykat and Wilykit were wearing in the first two episodes of the new series.

This reminds me of when a bunch of people threw a fit over Ahsoka Tano's costume for being just a tube top that showed off her mid-riff. Okay, since this gets into the topic of sexism, I'll play. There's been a lot of BS in the mass media lately with this topic, so I've had plenty of chances to examine the issue and come to an opinion on the matter.

And basically. . . it echoes this:

The Escapist : Video Galleries : The Big Picture : Gender Games

In short, the costume does not in and of itself make it sexist. The way in which the girl/woman wearing the costume is portrayed makes it sexist. So while Wilykit, Ahsoka and Cheetara may be showing off a lot of skin, they're not posing provocatively for the audience at home to drool over (if you're into that sort of thing). They're shown doing lots of other things OTHER than posing. Cheetara is attractive, but her role in the show is not defined by her being sexy and showing off lots of cleavage.

There is a ton of sexism out there, but I think that at least in the case of Wilykit, Cheetara and Ahsoka, we don't have to worry.

I so agree! Good way of putting it.:)

Thanks!

Yeah, but Ahsoka is 14 at the beginning of the show.
The producers pegged the kids as about 8 or 9. There is a difference.

why would you say They are eight or nine?
they never say that.
They are humanoid cats, they could be teenagers but the breed just could be small.
Like a type of house cat.
And why do you really care anyway?
It's just a cartoon.
And as Mako Crab Sad its not making Wilykit a sex symbol or anything.
I think let a cartoon cat be a cartoon cat.

Considering that both Ahsoka and Wilykit are underage, I don't see how age becomes the defining variable here. If anything, Ahsoka being a few years older and more physically developed would make her more prone to sexist portrayals. She has more to show off. And yet, she remains relatively unscathed.
Sexism isn't just relegated to the clothes a person wears either. It's just as much to do with how they're portrayed and the kinds of poses, activities, and personality they're given. Wilykit is fun-loving, uninterested in finding a boyfriend, helps out the ThunderCats when she can, scarfs down food just like her brother, and has fun pulling pranks on Snarf and whoever (again, just like her brother). It also says something that Wilykat doesn't talk down to her. Being orphans, they're pretty much each others' best friend, and they stick together through thick and thin. He never treats her like a burden because she's a girl. They're partners in crime!

Here's some more food for thought (and one of the things that really got me thinking about this whole issue. That, and my media class)

The Big Sexy Problem with Superheroines and Their 'Liberated Sexuality' - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews

Once again well spoken Mako Crab.

Thanks again. :)
I think it's good that Autotrooper's concerned about this issue, and sometimes the question does need to be asked whether or not the portrayal of a character is sexist. These are valid questions to ask and examine. I like this kind of discussion. And there are many cases, such as the article about Starfire I linked above, where I think the portrayal of a character is very much sexist. I just don't think Wilykit is a victim of sexism in this case. It's often very easy to over-simplify what exactly sexism is. A sexy, revealing costume all on its own isn't necessarily sexist.

For example, if any of you have seen the X-Men anime that's airing on G4, I couldn't help but notice how Storm was being portrayed in the first episode (haven't watched any more since then). Check it out:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...eous/storm.jpg

There's nothing horribly wrong with her outfit. Scoop neck with a mid-riff. Not uncommon. But it starts to become a problem when you realize that every shot of Storm frames her breasts. The camera angle on the right looks down her shirt even. Not one time is she ever shown in a close-up of her face. Every shot is from the waist up, insuring that her boobs help sell the show. In this way, even though she's not showing off much skin, it still objectifies the character and reduces her to a sex object.

And again, I don't see this being done to Wilykit (or Cheetara).

Autotrooper
in the original thunder cats for the first episode or two I forget.
They ran around completely naked, Lion-O was about 12.
And supposedly Wilykat and Wilykit were the same age.
But it doesn't sound to me like You have a problem with that.
Interesting isn't it?
and as stated above age had nothing to do with it.
So just because in the new series Wilykit and Wilykat are younger, that excuses their original teenage {or maybe about 12 it's kind of hard to tell, with their personalities I lean more towards teenagers.} counterparts For running around naked.

Ah, but you see, that is the thing. The fact that this show doesn't show them naked would provided more perverted lust for the clothed.

Also, they had no "parts".

And I just find it odd that the youngest is the most scantily clad.

Lol, do the japanese know what an african woman looks like?

And Wilykit and Cheetara have had several lingering shots of rear and chest.

No, the reason it isn't sexist in the original show is because both male and female characters were shown naked and neither male nor female characters were portrayed in such a way as to be eroticized. You don't see Cheetara reclining in a sexually alluring way or presenting herself as available for sex.

Wilykit dresses no differently than a fairy or a sprite. Look no further than Tinkerbell and her friends or Ferngully.

http://ryoko-demon.deviantart.com/ga...83333#/d28huzj

When and what episodes? Let's see some evidence! Where are these *lingering* shots?

Cheetara's actress might be African-American but she's not,she's a cartoon cat.
that's like saying Mark Hamill's Joker doesn't look anything like Mark Hamill, its not supposed to he supposed to look like the Joker.

yeah let's see one of Wilykit in particular, if you can't post it here tell us where we can see it in a episode.

so being fully nude, is not as appealing as fully clothed?
What sense does that make.
And I'm sorry but, no one's looking at Wilykit in particular as some sort of perverted sex fantasy. {well maybe some are but, that's not most people}

Pretty sure he was talking about the picture of Storm I posted up. Simple misunderstanding.

oh sorry, my bad:(

No worries. :)

i was talking about storm, sorry for the confusion.

in berbils you get quite the shot of wilykit's rear when she is hyped up on fruit and facing the baddies at the end.

and cheetara is pretty much everywhere.

tinkerbell is more like an adult.

so I reviewed that footage from berbils, and yes you are right you do see Wilykit's butt.
however, the reason she is framed from behind as with her brother is to show the scale of the Giants.
To show how big they are in comparison to the thunder twins, and is not pointless like in most video games.
Just for blatant fan service.
There was an actual reason for the shot to exist, you may not like it but both Wilykit and Wilykat are treated the same.
And they're not trying to sexualize Wilykit with that shot, it has a purpose.
As where I can kind of see what you're talking about with Cheetara, but as Mako Crab stated above.
She's not posing.
Fans think the original Cheetara was hot and she was even less revealing.
But as it is, the designs of these characters were not designed to be sexual.
It is clear that what Wilykit and Cheetara are wearing are both in character for them.
And was not designed for fan service, at least not as much with Wilykit.
And seem to be just fine designs, now if Wilykit gets older I'm sure they will change her outfit.
Which I think they might make them grow up a bit.
Maybe you will see Wilykit in her original outfit or at least a redesign of it.


Sorry I know I went a bit off the trail there.
But where this whole discussion started and where I want to bring it back to.
Is the intentions of the creators and artists.
And as I've stated before I do not see them trying to sell Wilykit.
They treat her as a normal little kid, with a bit of cat in their of course.
Both she and Wilykat are needed in the team.
One for appealing to more ages, and also to have different outlooks on situations being younger.
Being a little teeny bit of comic relief, but that category mostly falls to snarf I think.
They don't even play up the cute kitten aspect of the two much.
The creators take them seriously as characters.
And so unless in new episodes, more blatant fan service arises.
I have to say that I think the creators did a good job, with Wilykit and her outfit.

I watched the scene you were talking about. It lasted 3 whole seconds. It wasn't a "lingering shot", as you put it. It was a wide shot of Kit, Kat, and the giant. Kit and Kat weren't standing still, both were jumping around. It's not the kind of shot designed to let the audience get a good look at her butt. Then you have to consider that Kat was shown doing the exact same thing, yet you find no problem with him. We do get a shot of what Kit wears under the skirt, and lo and behold, it's a pair of purple bicyclist shorts. Not designed to be sexy. Nothing about Kit in that scene is presented in an eroticized way.

Prove it.

And? Tinkerbell's age has no bearing on the argument at hand.

I mean no disrespect, but your view of what constitutes sexism is over-simplified.

on the contrary, age has everything to do with it. alright everybody, let's agree to disagree. whatever, they are just cartoons after all.

I'm just saying, there are lots of people online who latch on to those moments, no matter how brief...

Granted, but that's a totally different issue. We're talking about sexist portrayals of the characters, not how fans latch onto them. If you want to argue that some fans obsess over a character, and ogle them one frame of animation at a time, then I'll happily agree. There are those people out there. But that's not what we're talking about.

This is what I find frustrating. You make a statement and then offer no backing. Examples? Evidence? Anything? WHY does age have everything to do with it? Because a sexist portrayal of Wilykit would be pedophilia? If they were trying to present Wilykit in an over-sexualized way, you might have a point. But they don't.
If they were presenting Wilykit as helpless and inferior to her brother, that'd be a different kind of sexism that would exclude pedophilia. Not all sexism is about the characters being exploited as sex objects. But again, Wilykit is presented as competent, capable, and every bit the female counterpart to her brother. Her portrayal is not sexist.

Again, WHY is age the damning variable here? If Wilykit were in her 20s and she were being portrayed in a sexist manner, it would still be considered sexist and bad.

No, I think it's even more important to examine the kinds of messages that the mass media are sending to young, highly impressionable children (the real target audience of this show). Just that in this particular case, I don't see any cause for alarm.

So. . . agree to disagree?

but you're right age has nothing to do with it, and as I've stated before.

[QUOTE]Sorry I know I went a bit off the trail there.
But where this whole discussion started and where I want to bring it back to.
Is the intentions of the creators and artists.
And as I've stated before I do not see them trying to sell Wilykit.
They treat her as a normal little kid, with a bit of cat in their of course.
Both she and Wilykat are needed in the team.
One for appealing to more ages, and also to have different outlooks on situations being younger.
Being a little teeny bit of comic relief, but that category mostly falls to snarf I think.
They don't even play up the cute kitten aspect of the two much.
The creators take them seriously as characters.
And so unless in new episodes, more blatant fan service arises.
I have to say that I think the creators did a good job, with Wilykit and her outfit.[QUOTE]

and I really wonder myself why Autotrooper, As such a big problem with this?
as you are thinking in terms of pedophilia, at least that's what seems like to me.
As where, myself and Mako Crab are talking about her outfit and how she is
Portrayed.

in my opinion a kid looking at wily kit would just see a fairy or a ballerina in her outfit. it's definitely no worse than a bathing suit and isn't being sexualized on the show. i've seen worse on that stupid toddlers and tiaras show.

[QUOTE=baboco2;26030]but you're right age has nothing to do with it, and as I've stated before.

[QUOTE]Sorry I know I went a bit off the trail there.
But where this whole discussion started and where I want to bring it back to.
Is the intentions of the creators and artists.
And as I've stated before I do not see them trying to sell Wilykit.
They treat her as a normal little kid, with a bit of cat in their of course.
Both she and Wilykat are needed in the team.
One for appealing to more ages, and also to have different outlooks on situations being younger.
Being a little teeny bit of comic relief, but that category mostly falls to snarf I think.
They don't even play up the cute kitten aspect of the two much.
The creators take them seriously as characters.
And so unless in new episodes, more blatant fan service arises.
I have to say that I think the creators did a good job, with Wilykit and her outfit.
I'm a little...overly sensitive when it comes to portrayal of children on TV. This I realize. As for Toddlers and Tiaras...don't even get me fucking started on that.

[QUOTE=Autotrooper;26035][QUOTE=baboco2;26030]but you're right age has nothing to do with it, and as I've stated before.

yes I totally agree with you on toddlers and Tiaras.
That is a terrible way to treat children, and I can understand your feelings
I share them.
and the mothers on the show do try to Push certain aspects, at least that's what it seems like to me.
I would be furious if they did that with Wilykit, but they are not trying to make her into some fashion show girl.
And here's another example.
this dancing clip from a while back ago.
With girls and that kind of clothing.
if they did that with Wilykit I would be furious
once again it seems as if they're trying to push certain aspects with these little girls, that is wrong.

Single Ladies Dance (7 years old- Original) - YouTube.

it was all over the Online news.
And if something like that ever does happen to Wilykit,
where they try to sell her Off as something, I will be completely furious then.
I'm really glad, you have an actual reason for hating her outfit though.
And I'm also glad that you have responded to us.
And tried to explain your way of thinking.
Now not everyone will agree with everything said, but it is at least nice that this has not turned into a shouting match.
Well online shouting match that is :-)

Yeah, I think we can all agree that "Toddlers for Tiaras" and those kinds of pageants are awful. That stuff makes me sick.

[QUOTE=baboco2;26038][QUOTE=Autotrooper;26035]:mad: wtf at that video? that is totally wrong. and the youtube comments!!

I couldn't even bring myself to click on the video. Can't stand that stuff. And now that you mention it, I soooooo don't want to read the youtube comments. *shudders*

they are very talented dancers.
however Those outfits make me question, what the parents thought when They saw their girls In Those outfits.

the thing about the comments is, that an option has been enabled so that the uploader can decide wether or not to make the comment visible. ergo, if i say this is wrong, he won't show my comment. if someone says this is so awesome, they're hot, he will probably show it.

and it would seem the comments have been hacked for many likes to show up. i mean, that is so wrong.

I agree with the OP. I also think it's sad that more people don't.

No I agree with him on things like that video I posted above.
And on toddlers and tiaras and things like that.
what I don't agree with him on is that he feels the creators of thunder cats are doing this to the new Wilykit, which is not the case.
As I said with that video and toddlers, to put little girls in skimpy outfits.
And emphasize some "parts"is wrong.
And is a terrible thing to do to a little girl.
However this is not what is happening with Wilykit, the creators are treating her as a normal little girl and not trying to emphasize anything.
But I do respect the original posters opinion.
And I do respect, that he cares about how children are portrayed in the media.
As I said if Wilykit were being treated like the girls on toddlers and tiaras, I would probably be one of the first ones to complain.
Since she and her brother are my favorite characters in both series.
And I'm glad this conversation has gone on, so long so that all viewpoints and opinions are expressed.

I'm not sure if there's much I can add at this point, I've kind of run my course.

But anyway just putting it out there :-)

Like baboco2, I don't know as though I can add any more to this conversation. I've already explained my position in detail and provided examples to back-up my point of view. I truly don't believe that Wilykit is being portrayed in a sexist manner.

heh, um thanks. :)

guys, the point i am trying to make is not entirely sexual, i just don't think her skimpy outfit was designed with the most decent/modest intentions.

I never thought of it that way. To me its more pixie-ish like Tinker Belle, guess that's the best way I describe it since I've watched some of those movies recently with my kids.

Judging from the model sheets released, one can see the designers have a devious side.

They're model sheets dude. They have to make sure the animators know what the character looks like from all angles. It's the same reason half the male cast is shirtless in some of them.