Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44780)

I know, I was being facetious. Also, they may have used the large break to look at fan reactions and think about where they were going.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44783)

The problem is far to many people use "bad writing" as a catch-all argument for when the show doesn't conform to their personal desires because it's often very subjective. They can just say that and it absolves them of having to listen to other people or try and explain their own position.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44785)

You are certainly correct, but you also have to know when to stop trying to 'explain' something and just accept that it's poorly done. You can sit and try to explain stuff forever, but there DOES come a point when something is just bad. And if you have to sit and figure out an explanation forever, it's because it wasn't very clear to begin with.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44787)

That describes cartoons like Voltron Force, not NS ThunderCats.

I don't think you guys have WATCHED a bad cartoon in awhile. I may have only given Avatar 5 episodes to get my interest before I got bored, but I gave Voltron 13 goddamn episodes in hopes it might get better.

When the kid with the speed powers can't catch the robot with the bomb that's going to destroy the entire Castle of Lions, and they have to rely on magic fuckin' bricks, then, THEN there's something wrong with the writting staff.

I'll say it again, ThunderCats writting is equivalent of TFA's early seasons. I still love that series, my friends still love that series. My only thought on how people can justify trashing this show is you've all gone completely crazy with inflated expectations.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44789)

Yes, EVERYONE has gone crazy except for you.

Originally Posted by cmangund (Post 44788)

A good writing will not require the readers or the viewers to do some "heavy extra analysis" of the writings itself. The fact that many of us having to "figure it out" ourselves on "what the heck happened with the characterization of the characters and story" is proof enough that no matter how you are going to view this show with "shippy eyes" or not, the so called "bad writing" existed. Of course the "level of assness" of the show will vary from individuals to individuals, they can view the show as either "badass", badass, or "dumbass".:D

Because we are humans and not the Geth from Mass Effect, heck even the Geth develop some personalities near the end of Mass Effect 3.:D

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44787)

That describes cartoons like Voltron Force, not NS ThunderCats.

I don't think you guys have WATCHED a bad cartoon in awhile. I may have only given Avatar 5 episodes to get my interest before I got bored, but I gave Voltron 13 goddamn episodes in hopes it might get better.

When the kid with the speed powers can't catch the robot with the bomb that's going to destroy the entire Castle of Lions, and they have to rely on magic fuckin' bricks, then, THEN there's something wrong with the writting staff.

I'll say it again, ThunderCats writting is equivalent of TFA's early seasons. I still love that series, my friends still love that series. My only thought on how people can justify trashing this show is you've all gone completely crazy with inflated expectations.

Originally Posted by cmangund (Post 44788)

A good writing will not require the readers or the viewers to do some "heavy extra analysis" of the writings itself. The fact that many of us having to "figure it out" ourselves on "what the heck happened with the characterization of the characters and story" is proof enough that no matter how you are going to view this show with "shippy eyes" or not, the so called "bad writing" existed. Of course the "level of assness" of the show will vary from individuals to individuals, they can view the show as either "badass", badass, or "dumbass".:D

Because we are humans and not the Geth from Mass Effect, heck even the Geth develop some personalities near the end of Mass Effect 3.:D

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44792)

Yes, but if there's one thing fans love it's picking apart every goddamn thing the show puts on their plate and looking for connections and explanations that may or may not be there.

That, and complaining.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44795)

I seriously can't wait until all the Avatar fans get a faceful of Korra never learning her lessons from Tenzin, and all their arguement time eating up air time. All the plot progression has already been made in the trailers alone.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44792)

Yes, but if there's one thing fans love it's picking apart every goddamn thing the show puts on their plate and looking for connections and explanations that may or may not be there.

That, and complaining.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44794)

Cheetara liked Tygra all along? What?

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44795)

I seriously can't wait until all the Avatar fans get a faceful of Korra never learning her lessons from Tenzin, and all their arguement time eating up air time. All the plot progression has already been made in the trailers alone.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44797)

I have yet to see a single episode of The Last Airbender, and I take a perverse glee in, upon being explained for the umpteenth time what a fantastic show it is and how no other animation can hope to stand up, responding with "Yeah, so?"

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44800)

Have you even BEEN in a relationship? Women are COMPLICATED.



Hypocrisy, man, it happens. Especially when you're young, feel like the entire world is against you, under pressure, and whatever else is going on in Lion-O's life.



All right here, man



We'll chop off your arms and stick some prosthetics on them and see how quickly you're efficient with them.



She's just as efficient with is as the OS.



He never used it to locate the Spirit Stone either. Not until it wasn't "exactly" where the Book of Omens said it would be.



Man, I didn't have any trouble with that, and I'm still enjoying the fuck out of NS ThunderCats.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44801)

Okay, now you two are just acting like jerks. You're welcome to dislike something others like, but if you're dicks about it, your opinions pretty quickly cease to matter.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44801)

Okay, now you two are just acting like jerks. You're welcome to dislike something others like, but if you're dicks about it, your opinions pretty quickly cease to matter.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44805)

THESE are your defenses? Seriously?

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44808)

And they absolutely bug the shit out of you, I love it.

Originally Posted by stormbringer (Post 44793)

We don't have inflated expectations, we just want the show to actually make sense.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44807)

Avatar fans have been jerks for a LONG time before we started standing up for ourselves. You gotta deal with it!



Aesop Amnesia - Television Tropes & Idioms

Look at that list in Western Animation, MAN, writting for every cartoon EVER must SUCK!

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44808)

And they absolutely bug the shit out of you, I love it.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44809)

It's because they make sense.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44811)

Did you actually read those examples? Because the vast majority of them are for comedies like South Park, the Simpsons, and so on. Comedy cartoons have NO PLOT, and do not progress in time. The characters do not change. The point of learning a lesson on a show with no plot or progression is for the viewers, not the characters. In a show with plot, the idea is for the characters to grow.

and the two or three non-comedy examples they had were: THundercats (not helping your point), J. Jonah Jameson, who has a long history of refusing to learn his lesson about spider-man no matter how many times it happens, and Ben 10, which presumably is just another case of bad writing.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44812)

No they don't bug me, they just make me wonder where your head's at. Your defenses all are basically 'stuff doesn't make sense, so don't try to make it make sense' which is one of the worst defenses I've ever seen. Your DEFENSES are largely the same as the complaints that people are making against it.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44813)

You know what it comes down to then? What else in this nook of merchandise driven science-fantasy adventure are you going to watch that's better?

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44815)

To this I have two answers:

First, very soon I will watch Legend of Korra, which has a very good chance of being better, and Young Justice, which fluctuates. Thundercats is not alone in it's niche, it can be beat by the competition, and that is why it needs to be at the top of its game.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44811)

Did you actually read those examples? Because the vast majority of them are for comedies like South Park, the Simpsons, and so on. Comedy cartoons have NO PLOT, and do not progress in time. The characters do not change. The point of learning a lesson on a show with no plot or progression is for the viewers, not the characters. In a show with plot, the idea is for the characters to grow.

and the two or three non-comedy examples they had were: THundercats (not helping your point), J. Jonah Jameson, who has a long history of refusing to learn his lesson about spider-man no matter how many times it happens, and Ben 10, which presumably is just another case of bad writing.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44814)

It makes enough sense to me, I find myself wondering why you're pissing your personal time and enjoyment of the show away by doing this. I'm enjoying the fact I can make you do so, however.



Survive the fall into the apparently soft-water, which Lion-O did. Too bad for him the rocks were on top of him, the only reason he drowned in the first place. Man, you're not paying very good attention.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44800)

Have you even BEEN in a relationship? Women are COMPLICATED.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44819)

I like how as your logic falls apart, you just fall back on being a troll. I started this argument having no real disrespect for you, we just disagreed. Whatever, that's what the internet is for, but the more you get pushed the more you just start sounding like a petulant child and falling back on insults.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44817)

Yeah, let's just ignore everything else in that list which includes shows often praised for their writing like Teen Titans and Transformer Animated, or even every other show listed there outside of animation. Thundercats is terrible and should never see the light of day.

Look, I'm not arguing that the show doesn't have its problems because it does but the show is still just starting out. We're still in the first season as it was plotted by the producers, there's still a lot to learn and a lot of ground to cover. Sometimes you really need to give them the benefit of the doubt and remind yourself it's just a tv show and relax.

I enjoy debating about the show as much as the next guy, but it's still just a show.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44823)

Bad writing is bad writing even on a good show like Teen Titans, I'm sorry I left it out of my examples. However, they also mention that other than Cyborg and Beast Boy, Teen Titans was actually pretty GOOD about this. As for the other shows, I just looked at Western Animation since that's what he pointed out.

I never said it's terrible, I said it's inconsistent. And while you have a point about relaxing, I would say we're all a step beyond that, since if we really wanted to just leave it be, we wouldn't be on a message board. And I hope it improves, but it's got some serious ground to cover; though this episode was a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by stac (Post 44820)

Women are complicated? This is such a stereotypical view. That’s your justification for such poor handling of the “love” triangle?



Lion-O has been “learning” lessons since the fall of Thundera, which he then conveniently “forgets” when the writers want to further the plot.
Instead of rationalising the motivations of fictional characters, why don’t you focus on the real problem – huge inconsistencies on the part of the writers in handling characterisation?



This is somewhat acceptable.



His prosthetic arms had been fixed by the end of episode 14, where he managed to knock out Slithe, Kaynar and Addicus in less than 5 seconds. The writers made him so powerful that they don’t seem to know what to do with him anymore, for example, the ambush at the top of the cliff in episode 15.



Cheetara like most other characters conveniently forgets her abilities when it suits the plot.



The point is that the writers seem to be ignoring SBS.



So basically you are more willing than others to let writers off the hook for inconsistent writing and poor characterisation?

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44824)

Right, but I'm not on here every week consistently arguing against the show and and shooting down possible explanations for why certain things are the way they are with tautology like "bad writing is bad writing."

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44825)

Thank you, these answers are exactly what I meant. All of these defenses are basically just 'sure it doesn't make sense, so?'

And why is 'women are complicated' an acceptable reason to write females behaving illogically?

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44828)

Really, why does it matter to you so much? Why are you victimizing ThunderCats over everything else that's guilty of the same thing?

Also, I've had some stereotype relationships, so it really doesn't even phase me to see Cheetara like that.

Originally Posted by SirSapphire (Post 44824)

Right, but I'm not on here every week consistently arguing against the show and and shooting down possible explanations for why certain things are the way they are with tautology like "bad writing is bad writing."

Originally Posted by KaleRylan (Post 44825)

Thank you, these answers are exactly what I meant. All of these defenses are basically just 'sure it doesn't make sense, so?'

And why is 'women are complicated' an acceptable reason to write females behaving illogically?

Originally Posted by stac (Post 44833)

In this case, the ‘women are complicated' excuse provides an easy, no-analysis-required justification for idiotic storytelling. Apparently some believe that anything the writers chose to do renders it inherently legitimate simply for the fact that the writers have chosen to do so.

Cheetara has barely received any significant character development and the triangle has negatively affected any development that had taken place.

The problem isn’t that writers chose to do Tygra/Cheetara – it’s how they went about doing it.

Originally Posted by cmangund (Post 44834)

Exactly, the major problem with the triangle that most of us been discussing after that dreaded EP13 aired. Should they have some development or something at all no matter how small other than the EP13 "out of the blue flower thing" at all with T/C before Ep13, then the "Cheetara as a character and triangle debate" will be not be this "long and bumpy".

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

Originally Posted by OmenBill (Post 44835)

I find it funny that it always seems to go back to the triangle in these episode topics. Like I said before, maybe that's how Cheetara is personality wise, she jumps into things too quickly, like she did with the Cleric test.

If Lion-O is capable of forgetting his lessons, maybe she can too.

Originally Posted by cmangund (Post 44836)

Then why she did not pick Lion-O from the start? Clearly Lion-O was the only one she "talked and cared" about in the first 12 EPs. Zero interest to Tygra. No matter what justification or explanation we have for Cheetara it cannot change the fact that she's "badly written"

Originally Posted by cmangund (Post 44836)

Then why she did not pick Lion-O from the start? Clearly Lion-O was the only one she "talked and cared" about in the first 12 EPs. Zero interest to Tygra. No matter what justification or explanation we have for Cheetara it cannot change the fact that she's "badly written".

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44838)

In Gurren Lagann, why did Yoko ditch Simon for Kamina? They didn't even HAVE an explaination.

At that point, Simon did even WORSE than Lion-O. Kamina isn't coming back from the dead.

Is Yoko badly written? I dunno, I'm busy starring at the stars.

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan (Post 44838)

In Gurren Lagann, why did Yoko ditch Simon for Kamina? They didn't even HAVE an explaination.

At that point, Simon did even WORSE than Lion-O. Kamina isn't coming back from the dead.

Is Yoko badly written? I dunno, I'm busy starring at the stars.

Originally Posted by cmangund (Post 44836)

Then why she did not pick Lion-O from the beginning? Clearly Lion-O was the only one she "talked and cared" about in the first 12 EPs. Zero interest to Tygra. No matter what justification or explanation we have for Cheetara it cannot change the fact that she's "badly written".

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

Originally Posted by OmenBill (Post 44853)

Back on this episode, anybody else wonder where exactly Mumm-Ra went? I mean, did he leave his own home base or just go further into the depths?

Originally Posted by hollowdheart (Post 44857)

It looked like he went into a pit or something. Maybe a healing pool of some sort? Or wherever he rests?