I think she was just honestly confused about how to treat him. I don't think any real negativity would've lasted had she lived. She pretty much raised and treated him as the heir since she found him and then suddenly he was no longer the heir. I don't think she thought out what to do.

You took the words right out of my mouth dear.
You rock the casbah.

However Tygra was no match with Lion-O's "kingly skills".:D

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Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

I'm not averse to agreeing with you there, but it's not in my heart to do it yet, and no matter what she made a really bad call. On the other hand, she did look really sad.

And I'm still not a fan :) Which was what I was asked about.

What would have Claudis been feeling for Lion-O?

He got the needed newborn son in exchange of his wife's life and later the kid turns out to be a slacker.

There are some stories where the father has a little hatred for the child that took their love as a result of birth.

Yea, but the fact that Tygra spent no time around tigers,and the whole tigers are evil thing ( It's hard for me to imagine that Thundera made it easy for Tygra to feel pride in that, if anything I think he grew up hating that about himself for a few reasons) just makes it look like something he was born with.

It sounds more realistic for it to be a cultural thing, but all things considered I don't see how he was exposed to tiger culture.
I just have my own problems with it. Same for the all lions are brave thing:rolleyes:

I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong, especially for a child who's mother died giving birth. There is no more terrible day than the one where you can bear the mystery no longer and are forced to ask "Why don't I have a mommy?" And no matter how much they try to explain that it isn't your fault there is still a terrible guilt that hangs over you.

All of these characters are emotional beings. You're approaching this as if he was a robot. It's not logical to blame Lion-O for all of those things, but it seems like people always needs someone to place the blame on. That's just the way emotional being are. Because Lion-O was born he lost what he held most dear. His mother died giving birth to Lion-O, and the crown was given to the blood heir. It's not an excuse, but remember this is a small child who lived his entire life feeling like an outcast. He STILL afraid of losing all that he holds dear, its just a problem he needs to work out. Another piece of his development that should be smoothed out by the time this show is over.

So in conclusion, I don't think its right to blame Lion-O. I just see how someone with those kind of issues could come to that conclusion.

Well said Chique, understanding his behavior and condoning it are two separate things, and you can feel bad for the guy while still admitting the way he went about things was wrong.

It's kind of harsh to say, but Lion-O never knowing his mother kinda brings forth a different kind of pain then the kind Tygra is experiencing. You can't miss what you never had. I think he may have been curious about her, but I doubt he feels that loss. I think his lack of reaction to the flashback supports this. He didn't look sad about it.We got more of an reaction when he found out the Thunderians pushed the tigers out.

Do you have a relative that you never really knew? When my grandmother loss her father, I was sad but it was more for my grandmother , rather than a sadness for my great grandfather. I never knew him so, I never felt the absence.

It's not right of Tygra, but as an imperfect human being I can understand it.

Isn't snarf the nurse maid like in butterfly blues showed

Unofficially.

Butterfly Blues is not confirmed to be canon, besides Snarf can't actually nurse him, being male and having no breasts.

Sorry, Chique, since it's the internet i wasn't able to get the tone across, or hear the tone in yours (if everything had an audio function over the words it'd be awesome). I do feel bad for Tygra, but i don't think it excuses his behavior. When was it mentioned in the show that he was treated like an outcast? We know Lion-o was, but i don't remember in this episode hearing anything about Tygra being treated that way, everyone loved him....

Oh no, he FELT like an outcast. Which isn't hard to imagine. It's actually something a lot of adopted kids go through. Why don't I look anything like the people I love? That, and Thundarians don't look to fondly upon tigers. I can imagine it's one of the reason Tygra worked so hard to prove he was worthy.

He felt like his birth parents abandoned him, and his mother changed when she got pregnant ( not commenting on her intentions, but it was a change) and then died when Lion-O was born. Then there's the whole sword and crown thing. Tygra has a constant fear of rejection.

This snarf hasn't been confirmed to be ozbert as ozbert was a cameo in butterfly blues so in that sense who knows what gender this snarf is. Panthro also said he didn't need a nurse maid when snarf was trying to feed him with a spoon

Have they ever seen Tigers before? Since they thought the Leo thing was just a story....So Tygra said he has a constant fear of rejection? I didn't hear it when i watched it, but then again my computer's speakers are bad so....

He didn't say it in those words (which is fine. If it's written the right way, then he wouldn't need to say it.), but he did say he was afraid of losing everyone he holds dear. Ive stated why he would feel that way in the earlier post.

I don't think they've ever seen tigers, because the tiger clan was isolated in the mountains. But they did hold disdain with them over their allegiance in the war. Rewatch the first scene between Lion-O, Tygra and Javon.

Really? Javon first proposed sending an envoy to Thundera. He knew where it was located and the Tigers seem to be more familiar with technology (the whip). It's a reasonable assumption to make.
He may not have known that Tygra would become a prince but that does not change the fact that his actions shaped Tygra’s life into what it is.

Between a choice of killing him or sending him away, Javon made the only choice he could.

What are you talking about? I was emphasising how self-centred Tygra was at that moment. Everything is always about him.
He acts like Lion-O came straight out of his mother's womb with the intention of “taking” his kingdom.

I believe his words were, “That night I lost the two things I cherished most, my mother and my kingdom.”

Implying that his life would have been so much better had his brother not been born was not a very nice thing to do.

I was criticising Tygra’s constant griping; his entire “woe-is-me” act was irritating after a while. It’s as though Lion-O and the others didn’t even exist.

So what? He was the favourite son. He had the favour of the people. Everyone loved him.
My point was that if Tygra felt like he did not belong, then the writers hadn’t done a good job of showing that.

I’m supposed to suddenly believe that Tygra spent his whole life “not quite belonging?”
Why not give us a silly flashback like they did with Cheetara and the Flower, after all they seem to be good at that.

This was my point – it should take more than one episode to resolve Tygra’s issues.

I wish the show was longer, like a hour.....it just feel so rushed to me....there's so much more I wish they would've gone into....it's like I'm just getting in to it then boom it's over.....

Or if the show came on more times a week like the OS did

Man, certain fans really really love to judge things based on flashbacks. One flashback of Lion-Os mom and suddenly everyone is 'this woman is a horrible mother to Tygra'. You guys want to see what really abusive stepmoms look like? Take a look at cinderella first --_- The sheer amount of whining about how Tygra feels unloved because lion-o's mom didn't call him a prince is amazing.

And losing an adoptive mother you've met is probably a lot better than being the one responsible for killing your mother when she gives birth to you. You can try and see which talk is easier to give "I'm sorry son, but your mother went to a better place" or "I'm sorry son, but your mother couldn't take your birth very well and died because of it"

That's a matter of opinion. Is it better to love and to have lost, or to have never loved at all? Personally, I don't think you can miss someone you never knew. He was probably curious and maybe guilty, but I don't think he felt that longing for her. Specifically her, not "a mother" but a longing for the woman we saw int he flashback.

I don't think she stopped loving him, but she really shouldn't have said that. It gave Tygra the impression that something had shifted, and Eclipse has gone into the new baby thing.

Bro why toss in the adopted thing? Adopted or not, she was his mother. She raised him and loved him. The reason why some people went in on the prince thing, was because it looked like she was going to favor Lion-O because he was biologically hers. Which I think we can agree would be wrong.

Lion-O didn't have that big of a reaction to the flashback. He looked more hurt by the Thundarians pushing the tigers out of the city. Which (IMHO) is fine. Equality and fairness is a big part of Lion-O, and you cant miss someone you never knew.

Oh what should we do? Ignore the flashbacks because you don't like them? 0.o If we weren't suppose to "judge" the flashbacks, then the writers wouldn't have included them.

You can take them for what they are, rather than picking it apart to find a nuance that suits your own views. There is no reason anyone needs to "judge" it at all.

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We're not saying she's a HORRIBLE MOTHER. We're saying that the WAY she approached telling Tygra made the little boy feel he's not going to be "her handsome prince" anymore. You see how she frowned when she changed that statement. And like I've said, maybe she didn't mean to be mean, she just got the wrong way about it.

I AM a mother. I have a six year old boy and I would never have told him that, especially now that's he going to have a little brother too.

And I don't think Claudus would be THAT callous to little old Lion-O. He wouldn't say, Sorry son, your mother died because she gave birth to you. Pregnancy has many complications and its not always the direct cause of the child that it happened.

We are taking them for what they are. Problem is, we all interpret things differently.
Having an opinion, good or bad, is judging it.

Whose to say you're right and I'm wrong, or vice verse? Unless the producers and writers want to add to the discussion or expand on it further, we won't ever know.

That assumes that Lion-O feels guilty about it, which we have seen no evidence of at all.

True, but until now we've never seen any indication that Tygra feels like an outcast, but apparently it was there.

He put him in an air balloon. Knowing where Thundera was is irrelevant. A balloon will go wherever the wind blows it. There was no evidence of any technology in the cave they were all living in and no evidence that the whip is technological either.

As for the only choice he could make? He was the ruler of the Tigers. Last time I checked that meant if you say "No I'm not killing my son, and we're going to Thundera for help" then that's what your people do. He didn't have to take the other guy's advice.



Exactly. My point stands. He didn't say "Lion-O took the two things I cherished most."

If we had seen him feeling like an outcast, and shown it, then i wouldn't have to be questioning it. But it just seems odd, given that now we're told he felt like an outcast.

Did anybody look at the credits? I'm not sure about the spelling of Tygra's father's name.:confused:

Maybe they'll show it it another one of those flashbacks the writers love so much.

I have friends who have never known their mother and I dare you to say that to them. Seriously, people can cry over stupid things like idols or celebrities dying and you think it's not possible to miss someone you've never known, even if that person happens to be the one who gave birth to you and contributed 1/2 your genetic material?

No I just find it funny how people use the flashbacks to confirm their own prejudices. Flower flashback? Cheetara was totally digging Tygra for the first 13 episodes. Lion-Os mother flashback? We can totally see why Tygra is disgruntled at Lion-O; because he wasn't prince anymore. Tygra almost killing Lion-O flashback; "but...he came back for Lion-O so it was ok"

Sheesh

DOUBLE DOG DARE ME! BET MY TONKA TRUCK YOU WONT DO THAT!
What else are we suppose to do with the flashbacks? Ignore them? I know a guy who lost his mother when her was very young. I felt guilty for bringing it up, but he shrugged it off. I'm not saying it would be WRONG of Lion-O to feel for her, but I can see why he doesn't. That's why his lack of reaction was no problem for me.

Once again, you are looking at these characters as if they are perfect unemotional logical creatures. Sometimes your emotions get the best of you.

lol, I'm not looking at them for being perfect creatures. People who apparently expect Lion-Os mother to have called Tygra 'prince' instead of darling are, especially with the way some of them like repeating they're mothers and how they would never do that. Seriously, it's one slip-up and people are already ready to hang her or justify Tygra's behavior from that one slip-up. I guess it's how people like to blame everything on their parents -_-

So you know 1 guy and I know some guys. We now have a stand-off on anecdotal evidence.

Which is dumb. I want to , how do you say, recall that last statement. It really doesn't matter who knows how many people or whatever. Lets keep it in the context of the show.

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I didn't judge her to be a bad mother. I said the way she went about telling her son that isn't right. We're not hanging her character, we didn't like the way she made him feel. There are a few different ways you can approach your kid to tell him he has to share his parents with a sibling, that was not one of them. The last thing you want your kid to know is that they're not going to be as special as they were when they were by themselves. This is where sibling rivalry can stem from. We're not justifying that to Tygra's behavior either.

Agreed. Before the actual premier I was cautious, but now that it's premiered I don't think it was meant to come across as her being a horrible person. I just think she could have done that better.

I was talking to somebody and she brought up a good point...why are they looking for a passages through the mountains.....what about the third stone....the one up on the cliff...I didn't see any snow covered mountains anywhere by that cliff.....

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/t...a-nu/006-1.jpg

am I missing something?....if the stone is not up on that cliff then why did the book point up?

How is tygra's frowning face before the whole not being called prince overlooked. This being shown from his point of view shows his selfish destructive behavior from a young age. Not enough on lion-o's mom to say much about her but tygra wasn't put out of the palace or denied being treated like royalty

You will have to excuse me if I find it a little incredible that Javon mentions Thundera and then the balloon carrying Tygra miraculously lands right in Thundera.

Balloons can be controlled and in this case, possibly by technological means – but that is speculation.

Regarding the whip, I always assumed that Tygra’s whip was technology and I thought it would be the same with the new whip.
Tygus seemed adept with technology which is why I also assumed that the Tigers would have retained some knowledge of it. However, this is also speculation.

While that’s all very nice, we only know that he was limited to two choices – save Tygra or sacrifice him. If you have issues with that, you should take it up with the writers.

You’ve only selected one part of my post and quoted it out of context. I explained my reasons in the sentences right before and after.

I said that that was what he implied when he said that. His life was great until the day Lion-O was born when his mother and his kingdom were lost to him.
Moreover, Tygra has, on multiple occasions throughout the previous season, stated that Lion-O “took” the crown away from him.

They probably forgot about it, since it was a plot device for Lion-o's death. Either that or they'll find it in the next episodes.

In this ep tygra gets the lion-o treatment from the writers.

Whatever your views on parenting are, we obviously don't agree on which way it's best to raise a child. It's not OK to slip-up. Be it like the Queen did or in any other way. If you do, you make up for it right away, and she did not. You don't want to think that this particular scene in the flashback had any significance, but the fact that it was shown like that says different, and the fact that no follow-up till the death of the Queen is shown says things were maintained as the last previous scene.

You're right, we don't agree on views on parenting. Parents are human as well as any others and unless you live in Brady Brunch land, it's very possible that in your entire life as a child, your parents have probably slipped once, twice or even a lot more. Expecting them to be perfect? That just leads to a lot of resentment and useless armchair therapy later on in life.

Furthermore, lack of evidence is not evidence. You can say things were maintained and I can say things weren't. How are you going to prove otherwise?

And again, I find all this whining about how Lion-Os mom didn't call Tygra prince incredible. Is this what it takes to not be a good parent anymore?

The outcast aspect was that there were no others of his species he could associate or learn from at that time, except maybe legend or past transgressions/hatred.

Some story characters develop a last or only one of my kind mentality.

Such things like this can be chalked up to characters lacking certain things.

frowning before? He's smiling before she said that.

Yes ballons can be controlled. By the people who are in them. I'm pretty sure an infant wasn't capable of piloting an air balloon.

If Tygra's whip was technology, then he wouldn't have spent his whole life not believing in technology.
Leo was also adept in technology, but that doesn't mean they still had it 5000 years later in Thundera either. Much less an outcast clan living in caves.


I'm sorry if you don't agree, but throwing a baby out in the wild with no direction and no way to fend for himself is not saving him. It's only by chance that he landed in Thundera IMO.



I select the parts of your post I'm replying to. Why quote things that I don't care about?

I didn't say he hasn't blamed Lion-O in past episodes. What I said was that He wasn't blaming Lion-O in THIS episode. It wasn't what the scene was about.

I think Tygra should have understood Lion-O more when Lion-O wasn't favored by Claudus because here it seems Lion-O was connected with Tygra's real father a lot more than Tygra did and this may have caused Tygra to feel resentful. Last episode should have Tygra understanding Lion-O better after what he goes through as king in his absence. Not only is Tygra not admitting he's wrong as his character flaw, so is his self-centeredness.

Tygra has a hard time with Lion-O coming into his life.

It can go either way that a child will accept or not accept the new sibling. Some children who were once spoiled as the center of attention will have a hard time accepting such a change. Also being in a Royal Family made him super spoiled.

Plus cats are territorial by nature.

You blow this out of proportion. I have the feeling I'm touching a sensitive issue. So I will just tell you that the lack of evidence you point out does not make your assumptions right and you have no way to prove your theory. Like me, you have what was shown there and nothing more, and since it was shown I have to believe it was relevant to the story. They only had 20 minutes to tell the story after all and couldn't dwell much on the flashbacks.

If we get another one in the future disproving my theory, I will have no qualms to say I was wrong. In the meantime, that's what I think about the significance of that scene, and what I think about parenting. It's not meant to be pleasant.