Rant- Should Thundercats Be Saved?
 

Editorial/Rant: Can and Should Thundercats Be Saved?

I lay out the reasons it should be saved, but also give reasons why it might be a lost cause. This is nothing more than a personal rant born out of a fan site runners frustrations at what he sees happening. If you're going to call me an idiot, at least do so in a constructive way. :)

This is one of those rare reboots that is every bit as good, if not better than the original. I'm going to be deeply disappointed if it fails to continue. They've managed to create a rich and vibrant world, as well as interesting characters. It's clear that a lot of thought and care went into this show, and it doesn't feel like a crass 22 minute advertisement for toys, like so many other cartoons on the air.

I'm not optimistic about the future, but I'll be very disheartened if this is the end.

That's a pretty good way to sum it up and I feel the same way.

If they're smart, they should be fixing the bad things listed in your rant rather than cutting their losses.

They already did loss-cutting back when they tossed out their plans to make ThunderCats a rock-band with SNARF as the leader. FUCK. NO.

This is a GOOD series, give it a chance and let the potential bloom dammit!

All of those are fair points, both good & bad. And as for the aforementioned comics that should've been out, haven't you heard? DC has re-imagined their entire line (don't say reboot, that's a bad word) and their kids comics are focused on DC cartoons or (wait for it....) in-house CN shows. Who has time to make an epic fantasy comic tied into an epic fantasy cartoon when we have to make Wonder Woman more relatable by making her a product of angry sex (I SO wish I was kidding).
I think part of the problem is, people tend to compare WB to Disney, since both have huge stables of cartoon & now comic characters at their disposal. But Disney tends to actually give a damn about the characters. WB treats them like cash fodder. Yes, Disney used to put out bad sequels for a quick buck, but WB seems to be wholly indifferent about their properties. I just thought of this as I type, but it's like a later season episode of M*A*S*H, where Hawkeye's dad had surgery. Hawkeye has a dad who usually shows his care, where Winchester has a father who acts like he doesn't give a damn.
While I'd be inclined to say let it die, I think if they could get a better show runner who can get more consistency between episodes, it'd go a long way to helping.

CN is the chief villain here. Biggest problem is that they wrote this series off a couple of weeks after the premiere. They were expecting a mega smash hit (and they certainly paid for one) and when they didn't get the return (ratings, merchandise) they expected they put it out to pasture. In the end it's a numbers game and the bean counters ultimately will make or have made the decision on the series future. I am hopeful, but not optimistic, because CN has an established history of killing shows prematurely.

I think ThunderCats is screwed between the idiots at Warner Bros., Cartoon Network, who has a notorious history of burying shows that they don't produce in-house AND Bandai, who doesn't know how to handle collector toylines. These three entities will do more damage to the ThunderCats than any team-up between the Mutants, Berzerkers and Luna-Taks ever will.

Personally, I hope that the WB re-evaluates ThunderCats based on strong Saturday ratings and reverses the decision to make that brand dependent on toy sales. Maybe they can get rid of Bandai and try again with a better toy company if they received a new season.

i hope it doesn't die it's a good show much better
than the cheapass show with no plot to them
man those show are pathetic

Man and i was hoping for a big screen movie, :(
TCS is my life, i grew up with them, i bought their toys in the 80s, and now updated them with this new toyline, plus im always watching the cartoon regaurdless if i liked it or not.
Killing this off is the biggest mistake ever!!!
But at the same time, if a much better and respected company picks it up
. then we're in for a hell of a ride. bandi droped the ball. but in the end good things will come. i know it i feel it. :)

MJ is my problem. He wanted to write his tygra fan fic. It is fine if lion-o is second place to tygra, in the begining, but over and over again we are reminded that lion-o will always be second place. This is the writer.

Cheetara character has been been butchered the most of any one in this show. She is a totally different character than she was in the first half of the season. We have nothing on her, but tygra's arm candy.

Lion-o is the only character that has to learn a leason of the group which he forgets in the next episoe. I think other characters need to learn too.

The forgetting of powers.

Pumyra, if the only reason she is with the group is because lion-o has to have someone, that is so pathetic. If this is true, then MJ knows he is trying to cover up his tygra fan fic choice. To me it is sexist, that should not be the only reason females are in this show.

There famous words of they want us to figure out on our own. Well fans come up with a conculsion and then the writers say something different. Give us the details. Of course I think this is on purpose so a certain writer can have his character shine.

I love everything else in this series except the writing or should I say MJ.

They need to can his butt and get some other writers on this or some of the OS writers. But let us know when the series starts again and be a little open with your fans. The other writers of different show are open with thier fans.

Sad, all because a writer had to have his boy shine.

Sorry for the ranting.

That link isn't working for me but I'd love to read it.

Thanks for letting me know. Fixed it. Sorry about that.

The series should be saved without a doubt. There is amazing potential.

But BANDAI....

I became too frustrated with this company and sold off everything I owned by them for this brand. All that remains is the 8" Classics Lion-O's and Tigra. They downgraded the size, which pissed me off initially, then had the nerve to release an incomplete bare-bones Mumm-Ra. No thanks.

If Bandai had done their job properly, kids and collectors alike would be very excited by now, and new product would be on the shelves. Between the all too-long breaks of the show and poor distribution of the toys, it certainly does not look good. Gone are the days of perfectly-timed show/toy tie-ins, and since the bottom line is more important these days, well, you know the rest.

To tell you the truth,... I've never heard of "Bandai" til the tcs came out. Im not one to pay atention to toy-brands.
Out of all the key errors this show has been having. Sure it can be fixed. New wave-lines could come at a later time we can wait (take all the time you need as long as good things come). games could be made. Clothing, and other kid stuff could be on the way just in time for "back to school" deals
But if you ask me, the show really died after the first off-the-air months it had. I dont remember what happened. but it was like 6 shows or something then it stopped coming on for who knows how long til it got back on, (i had to keep checking online to know when it was back because these idiots dont tell us on tv) & when it did return. nothing special to remember. But slowly it started losing steam and i kept telling myself, 'omg this is boring" i miss the 80s version.
Whoever is in charge of this, really need to step up & do something about it. Find new writers. promoters, toybrand or whatever it takes to keep this show from fallin flat on its face. Because THUNDERCATS is just as good as batman, spiderman, gi joe, transformers, he-man. ect.
TC is an "icon" There shouldnt be a reason in 2012 for something as good as the thundercats! to fail.

I agree with pretty much all of Joe's points. I'm hoping some of the writing problems with this first season were the result of growing pains and they'll get better as they go. Afterall there are many great shows that had less than great first seasons. They've had some really awesome episodes, but they have a bad habit of loosing momentum between episodes and not being consistent with their characterization.


As for Bandai.... I liked the 6" figures. They could've been better, but they could've been a lot worse. I can't help but wish Bandai America was more like Bandai Japan (who makes MUCH better quality toys) though.

Yes, Joe you did a great job of thoughtfully summing up the good and the bad points of this project.

Definitely a very compelling and thought provoking read. Though I don't quite agree with everything said about the writing.

Personally I want to see the second season made, and then end it. That way they can finish telling the story they set out to tell, and they can give us a proper ending to this poorly handled reboot. Part of me would also like to see the toy-line given to another company to try and do...but another part of me doesn't want to see another failed attempt at it.

Once this is all over I would like to see another attempt at a reboot. However, WB needs to find another channel to air it on. If they're stupid enough to stick with CN...I'll support the show, but I'll do my best not to get emotionally invested in it. Which is what I should have tried to do with this show, as I was worried about CN from the beginning...

I have to say I see your points, good and bad, but I cannot fault Bandai. They did a pretty good job of the 6 inch toys and I can see me keeping these until my death bed. They are pretty cool. Yes, they are lacking accessories like Mumm-ra's cape or sword for the classic line. The should have kept the line 6 inches for the Classics and never tried the 8 inch line. They are cool, but they are too big for fans and kids all the way around.

Cartoon Network and WB is sitting on the original series and they really should be showing it at least on Boomerang, to help the classic line going forward.

I cannot blame the writers for the odd episodes that really seem to not be connected to the full story line. We really do not know the circumstances behind the line-up of the episodes, as we have seen in the information from WB, they seem to be putting episodes in whatever order they want to do.

I think WB is working to get the sales up, as we have seen in the past few weeks, a Nintendo DS game coming out, puzzles and a scooter. What bothers me is that most of the new merchandise that is coming out seems to be selling in Europe more than the US.

I think one thing that WB is dropping the ball on is that they have the CW, they could be showing reruns of the episodes on there as it seems to be more available to the general public than Craptoon Network. WB needs to realize the potentials they have with their resources and get working.

I'm going to have to disagree on some of those "Saves".

The Voice Cast. Honestly, maybe it's me, but I can't agree with all of that sentiment. Especially KMR. I've always been careful about criticising KMR's work, because you never know how much is voice direction or outside imput and how much is the actor. However, I'm beyond tired of KMR, only because his voice sounds exactly the same in everything he does. Family Guy, Green Lantern, Prime, TC, it all sounds the same. Friedle at least makes Batman, Blue Beetle, and Lion-O as variations. The Kits are also overly childish for their voices; they're supposed to be experienced thieves, they could use the kid voices as part of their routines, but they should have a bit more matured inflection to them otherwise IMHO. After all, they left home to ease the burdon on their mother, they become skillful thieves and liars, and survived for years without parental guidance. A childish child can't do that.

On the point about it being Rebooted the Right Way, personal preferences being what they are, I'd disagree. It was a different take, but there were a lot of ways they could've presented a more codified version of the original series that would've had some of the stronger story elements that were largely ignored in the OS finally given the light and attention they deserve.

Finally, by far the biggest point, is that the Villains are Actually Dangerous. I actually laughed at that. This is my largest complaint about this series. The villains are non-existant. Mumm-ra is a very bad joke with Kaynar and Addicus being so inconsistant that they can't be called characters, they're just evil dialogue spouting puppets. Classic Mumm-ra accomplished more in dozens of OS episodes by himself.

Pretty much total agreement on the flip side.

This series needs to be canceled and used to illustrate how not to reboot a series.

Ok, here my two cents:

Another reason to save TC2011 is that it gained new fans, who were initally not fans of the TOS, but basically know what TC is about. The backstory of Thundera, SoO, Third Earth and it's inhabitants are more plausible. The characters are likeable and though it got not the prominent TC theme, it's all 1000% TC.

WB and CN are totally nuts to just see the numbers and only the numbers. TC has the potential to be big again…

All the reasons Joe mentioned are indeed correct, might it be promotional and sales wise reasons.

It's not ranting at all, It's justified comments. All of of us that have "big issues" with the show took our time to complain because we really like TCATS and wanted it to be a "great and proper show", that showcases Lion-O "properly" and not some "second runner" to Tygra, "90% of the time (at the very least make it 50-50)"and with "proper ship" and not some out of the blue 180 without any "proper" buildup and/or "reasoning", Thus DN's inability to defend T/C buildup with "hard evidence", the best that he can come up with was basically it's "happening off screen". And on top of that, MJ's hero is Tygra and since Tygra is the main hero of the show he has to have the alpha female, thus the "personal cheerleader" of Tygra known as Cheetara and the rest are "not important characters that he has to write because of the TCATS brand".

________________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand.

Sadly I saw the toy line disappearing way back in January. When a toy company doesn't show anything new at a Toy Fair it's pretty much over for that license. As far as the show I really liked it at first but my interest has diminished over the last episodes. I have a 6 year old nephew who was initially excited about Thundercats and soon lost total interest. The show failed to capture the imagination of kids, a cartoon's most important audience members. That may have been because of CN's bizarre programming choices: time slot changes, hiatuses, lack of promotion, etc. or because of the writing. It was probably both. I am sad to see it go because it had so much potential but unfortunately all signs are pointing to the demise of Thundercats and fans like us who have followed the series will get no real closure.

I definitely think the show should be saved. Its still one of the better shows on TV.

I'd have to agree with just about everything you initially posted, Joe. Both sides of the argument are pretty valid, and all the points you present are well thought-out and well-written.

The pre-show hype from the producers said something along the lines of this show being just 52 episodes long which would require it to be so tight that there simply wasn't enough room for filler episodes... Of the top of my head, we've had Ramlak Rising, Song of the Petlars, The Duelist & the Drifter, Forest of the Magi Oar, Native Son, Survival of the Fittest, The Forever Bag, Recipe for Disaster and, most recently The Soul Sever that, although in a lot of cases are excellent episodes (Petlars & Native Son immediately spring to mind), I think it's safest if I just leave it by saying these "non-existent" fillers have produced some of the lowest points (quality-wise) in the series.

I honestly can't see us getting episodes 27-52. The deafening silence coming from CN sounds just like the one Transformers fans were treated to at the end of series 3 of TF: Animated...

Bandai dropped the ball on the Classics line, by making the size an uncommon 8" inches instead of the regular 6" inches and they missing abdominal articulation for Mumm-Ra and Tygra making them look fat.

Bandai also messed up with the case ratios in the 4" line. Too many damn Mummy Mumm-Ra's are warming pegs. The Tower of Omens was a joke.

The Show needs to die. Its an abomination of the original. The Writer/Producer-michael Jelenic originally said he didnt understand the original show.

The Bandai sculpting is horrible and the figures really are terrible.

Let someone reboot the property that actually UNDERSTANDS and loves it.

Can it? Yes

Will it? No

Toys are bad ass

Cartoon is good 75% of the time (although I really don't care for most of these filler episodes)

There should be more merchandise

but I already knew that because I love and support the line (and have since I was 6) that it wouldn't last

It sucks too that we have to wait 6-9 months for the Storm Chaser and Slithe to hit to Ross

Jelenic sunk the show from the start..the writing and premise is abysmal. They sullied teh idea of the show.

You can't be a fan of this show and think the original was off. without the original , this show wouldn't exist.

let it die and be replaced by a more faithful show. and no Im not talking about having juvenile dialogue like the 80's show...you can make a faithful show that doesn't dumb itself down.

You also don't need a show like this that ignores what made the original great.

there are two problems with the thundercats at this point:

1. when cartoon network moved it to saturday morning they killed the show since most people aren't up at that point, and a lot of people forgot to set the dvr's.

2. unstead of selecting a company like hasbro or mattel they chose bandai who's claim to fame is power rangers and ben 10 which are both nitch toys.

You could love the new show and hate the original. That's like saying Dark Knight fans have to like Adam West's Batman automatically. Or the Fred Wolf TMNT fans should like the original black and white comics where the TMNT killed Foot ninja.

The entire writing team should be replaced. Preferably with those who write Young Justice
-_-

Your analogy is flawed. It would be like saying you like the tv show and hate the comics....

it means you were never a fan in the first place.



You cannot like this show and dislike the original. it means you never understood what made the original great and what made it endure to a new incarnation.

This version has failed in so many ways and proves that Jelenic and co. are arrogant in thinking they could improve on something they never understood.

yeah totally let's make it dry and go backward :O

okay i have a very different point of view

my point of view is this version of thundercats is new
and it makes more sense to me as the thunderkittens don't seem like adults but are children and snarf is a pet that doesn't speak and that they aren't the first gen. to be there
and just because the writers didn't redo the old show from the 80's doesn't make it bad
i don't know much about thundercats as i just got into the series but the few bit i have seen from the 80's reflect the times and is very goofy

now my point is simple just because it's different doesn't mean the writers don't understand the series and for all we know they could have watched the every episode from the old show and read all the comics(doubt it but it is possible)

I think the new show needs to have certain homages/tributes to the old show if it wants to carry on the thundercats name. Otherwise, why name it thundercats? You might as well name it something else. If you're going to name it tcats to attract fans of tcats then you need to do something similar. It doesn't need to be totally alike but it does need to have its roots there.

Also it's not that the writers didn't redo the show that made it bad. It's just that the writers ARE pretty bad. Look at YJ, it's a kids cartoon as well but the writing is pretty much one of the better ones for cartoons. They even manage to get the tsundere romance down pat, unlike Pumyras bipolar one

I would love thundercats to continue but we all know the series will not make it past season 2. I do not blame the artist or the storyboard who came up with the idea. But instead cartoon network horrible advertising and bandai horrible merchandising. Cartoon network is not the same company that once had great programs to show. Instead they have horrible shows which no one even watches anymore. Plus changing there time frame from friday to saturday was a horrible idea. I think thundercats would of had a better chance if it was on adultswim. Cartoon network barely advertised thundercats and no one really knew about the series. I was unaware of this series until a friend told me about it and I watched it a couple weeks later online and then on the tv. If cartoon network would of advertised it a bit more then maybe we could of seen the series last longer. Bandai never really advertising the series either and there merchandising department had horrible ideas. Why make a 4inch or 8 inch figure? I have never seen children playing with those size figures. If they would of done a little research they would of noticed that the standard size of many figures are 5 to 6 inches tall. (Just look at wrestling figures and etc) It wasnt until recently that bandai finally realized that the 6 inch figures were the right decision to make things after making multiple liono and tygra figures. But now its a little to late for those 6 inch figures to be made. I doubt we will ever see wilykit, wilykat, Pumyra, Slithe, Classic Cheetara, Classic Tygra, Classic Wilykit and wilykat and classic panthro in 6 inch size. Just look at how expensive 6 inch tygra is going online for about $50 dollars right now. I know its a little to late to save the series but I would at least like them to make one more set of 4 inch figures since they almost made all the characters and that is pumyra, Jaga, The Robear Berbils, Jackalman, Monkian and maybe Vultureman. After all bandai already made all the figures from the new series. It wouldnt hurt to make one box set of all these as a last farwell to this wonderful series for us fan who bought these figures. And did our best to support to keep the series alive although it was cartoon network and bandai's mistake that ruined it.

No, his analogy was perfect.
The News Series and Original Series are very different; you said so yourself. Hence, liking the Original is not a automatically a prerequisite for disliking the New Series.
The question of whether the similarities and differences between the two series are positive or negative developments is purely subjective.

okay i'm going to try to re sum this
so your basicly saying each series is it's own
and liking one doesn't mean you'll automaticly like the other
right?

I want the show to finish out its story before it ends and that would mean a season 2. We can't have it cancelled after this first season and leave things unresolved. As for the toys, the 4-inch figures are the ones that I will cherish.

Yeah, this is a 'rant' alright... OF COURSE this should be saved. You guys don't know how lucky you are. Us TF fans had to sit through FOUR Pokemon-style anime shows before we finally got another western-made Transformers cartoon with a proper story and good characters. If that's what you want... please go ahead, hate this show, then I'll check back in 10 years, and see if you even got another show.

Also, you might wanna check out Voltron Force too to see how well TC's revival went in comparison to that show...

I'm really, really hoping whoever takes the license gives us 6-inch Pumyra, the Thunderkittens, and all four generals and Grune. This show has so many amazing designs even for one-shot characters like the Duelist or the three lizard trackers... if the toyline was made by Hasbro or Mattell, we would already have them in toy form.

Hahahaha, this is the most silly reasoning I have ever heard. Seriously.

See, I am an old-timer Transformer fan, but I don't like EVERYTHING from it. I don't like most of the old cartoon (especially season 3), I don't like the Bayformer movies, I don't like the japanese cartoons (save for a few). I like the old Marvel and the new IDW comics (most of them anyway), I like Beast Wars and Beast Machines, I like TF Animated.

Does not make me any less of a fan of Transformers, because I still watched those series I did not like, and know them and their characters just as well as those who like them.

So if anyone likes this new Thundercats series, or likes the Wildstorm comics, but doesn't like the old series - will not make them any less of fans then you are.

Exactly. It's simply that this franchise has not seen as many versions/reboots as those shows (Batman has so many, I lost counts), so the old-timer Thundercats fans are kinda unaccustomed to seeing things done differently. It's like LOTR, for example - until Peter Jackson we only had the books and the old cartoon. There was not much to argue about in different adaptations...

Bandai proved a long time ago they suck at engineering. Look at their most recent Megazords - usually, they make one version that has proper articulation but cannot transform into individual partners, they make separate vehicles/animals that can transform, but do not combine... and so on. Not to mention how they usually make 10 versions of each ranger, but no villain toys at all... Makes for a boring toyline. Ben 10 is slightly better, but those toys don't have great articulation either.

It's like some people are watching a totally different show. Sorry, please can you show me where and how many times Tygra has, I dunno... stopped Mumm-Ra? Has saved the day? 'cause I oddly, do not remember any such events happening.

HECK, the most complaints I have heard around the first 13 episodes was that the show focuses on Lion-O too much!

You are really nitpicking with this whole "Tygra fanfic" thing. Tygra is simply, a more prominent character this time, which was obvious since we learned he is an adopted brother of Lion-O. I for one, like this change. As said, I watched more episodes of the OS then the new show, and it has showed me nothing at all to remember the old Tygra by.

They said ratings have improved since the move. I almost always missed the first run on Friday night as I'm barely home then.

Great point.

One very common complaint that I completely disagree with is the "filler" episodes. " The duelist and the drifter" and " Song of the Petlars" were fantastic episodes and neither advanced the main story. These episodes along with most of the other "fillers" did continue to flesh out characters, the other animal races and Third Earth itself. If you remember the original series you could say that 80% to 90% of the episodes were filler. That's part of what sucks about getting older and especially since the rise of the interweb is that we tend to look at everything far more critically than we would have in the past.

Voltron Force is another show I watch besides this as I can see both shows heading in similar situations whether a second season will happen or not.

the thing is that people wants the old Thundercats and this is a new version...i hope they dont cancel it cause i really love it i was a fan of the original and i love the new version 2 ...reason toys and other stuff are not having a great selling point is cause of the economy and also reviews...i've been watching reviews and some people expect perfection from toys and it cant be possible...Bandai has done a perfect rendition of the figures even better than the originals that didnt have half of the articulations the new ones have...and the price is high for a 4 inch figure for example here where i live a 4 inch cost around 12-14 dollars...i mean ...i know the show wont get cancel cause people watch it!

actually, toys do play a very big factor into whether a show is renewed or not

I don't think this show appeals to kids, none of my nephews watch this. To me this show is running solely on fan support...