Of course I don’t expect an infant to control the balloon. I said it could have been controlled by technological means – I meant something like an auto-pilot or navigation system.

Tygra could have used it while not being aware that it was actually technology. The Lions/ThunderCats rejected technology because they associated it with Mumm-Ra. The Tigers were loyal to Mumm-Ra and may have been more favourable towards technology.

We don’t know if he landed in Thundera by accident or not. In my opinion, it being an accident is highly unlikely.

I’m going to assume, based on what is known so far, that Javon only had two choices – sacrifice Tygra or send him away. In this case, sending Tygra away on a balloon would have been the only correct choice to make if Tygra was to have any chance of survival at all. Tygra’s survival may not have been guaranteed but at least he would have had a chance (however miniscule).

Perhaps because I’ve already answered it two times now and I don’t have to repeat myself so much?

I was talking about Tygra’s statement that he lost his mother and his kingdom the day Lion-O was born. He is associating Lion-O’s birth to these events in a certain way and he already blames Lion-O for "taking" the crown from him.

Tygra just seems very self-centred here. His father just lost his wife, his younger brother will never get to see his mother and he acts like it only affected him.

Wait, so the guy who's saying 'she's hardly a bad mother just cause she didn't call him prince' is the one who's blowing this out of proportion, compared to the people who go "NO! ITS NOT OKAY TO SLIP UP! Y U NO CALL TYGRA PRINCE?!?!" Lol, wut?

Of course it's relevant to the story *probably* but you're also making some assumptions based on what happened after the flashback, which aren't shown. Like her continuing to distance herself from Tygra.

Was it supposed to be unpleasant? Cause I didn't really find it so. But then again, I guess I'm one of those people who are able to survive if my parent didn't call me a 'prince'.

Now you're angry and trying to put words into my mouth. I never said she was a bad mother. Why would you need to defend her from someting I did not say?

Again, what I think and the answers to your questions are here, here and here.

First you try to make it seem like I feel that your view on parenting is unpleasant and now you're trying to say I feel angry? Seriously, stop projecting feelings onto me. And you'll notice the quote you quoted me has ME saying that she's hardly a bad mother just cause she didn't call him prince, not you. Why do you assume you're the only one I'm referring to on the board? There are several others who have whined about her doing so you know.

As for parents being able to choose between kids, it happens. Just look at sophie's choice. At least Tygra wasn't gassed to death -_-

Dang, Lion-O's mom was the most beautiful thundercat woman I've seen in the series so far. I hope Lion-O's love interest is even hotter, let Cheetara and Tygra have they're romance. I liked that this episode showed that both Lion-O and Tygra are maturing, and it shows more about Tygra's dislike of his brother, the fact that he lost his mother when she gave birth to Lion-O may have added fuel to the fire. On another note can't wait to see Lion-O get all buff again like in the OS.


This was a bromance episode that scene with Lion-O and Tygra at the end was the highlight :D

Sining: The scene was clearly meant to be unpleasant, just based on Kid Tygra's reaction to it.

On the episode: I'll say 8 or 9 out of 10, but this is the internet so I'm going to nitpick.

1. There were a LOT of things in this episode that screamed 'not enough time.' They could have given a better explanation for just what Lion-o and Tygra were doing. They could have mentioned Cheetara. Even Lion-o could have had more reaction to his brother saying he lost his two most precious things the day he was born.

I also place the mother's line under this. I think it was visual shorthand for EVERYTHING that changed when Tygra wasn't an only son. And I think it could have been done better. None of this ruined the episode, but it did make it a little disjointed.

2. Better fight choreography than we've had in a while, which I appreciated, and Lion-o fought a lot smarter than the last few times.

3. The Tigers: I think, if they stayed loyal to Mumm-ra (who's some kind of alien devil thing in this world) then the other races were WELL within their rights to ostracize them. And it seems like it was mostly the Tigers that kept the isolation going so long. The others seemingly forgot and would probably (considering how they treated Tygra) have been fine if the Tigers had come out of hiding.

That said, I think it's a shame they're gone. Hopefully they use Bengali to introduce some surviving Tigers.

4. Tygra: I liked that this episode served to illustrate that Tygra is not perfect and then have him grow. This show spends so much time on teaching Lion-o that sometimes it seems to treat the others like moral paragons who don't need to grow. Hopefully those last few scenes mean they'll get along better and I can't wait to see what his whip does.

5. Seems like the Ancient Spirits may be able to pick up the villain slack where Mumm-ra has been failing.

Good episode, more of this please.

I agree that this episode is basically better than the rest of s2. Although when Lion-O was born, Tygra was what? 4? 5? And he already considered the kingdom his and one of the most important things to him back then? This combined with the way the rest of the Tigers were portrayed in this episode gives me a sense of foreboding.

Yes, the tigers seemed to be one who kept themselves in isolation. Like they said, it was out of pride. I don't think thunderians had anything against tigers considering the king and queen went and adopted one openly. Although now it seems like Lion-O and Tygra are BOTH the last of their particular genus of cats. Actually, so is Cheetara and Panthro....

And why was there no mention of Tygra's mother? What's with all the missing mothers? I'd say they're going to do a flash back on her but all the other Tigers are dead. Unless they come to a tiger/lion village where they do a flashback on tygra's mother leaving tiger village because she didn't want to take part in messing with spirits of evil.

And the ancient spirits of evil really really seem to suck. As far as curses go? That seemed to have been broken a bit too easily. It's a bit like Beauty and the beast, where the beasts are the tigers and Beauty is Tygra. And Tygra learns to accept the
'beasts' for who they really are in inside and the spell is broken. Except Beauty and the Beast was setup that way so that the beast could learn a precious lesson. I don't think the ancient spirits of evil had any such intentions in mind. Plus, their xanatos gambit kind of sucked. If it was so important Tygra die or not fight them, they could have just chosen to do the deal without the sacrifice which would ensure Tygra stays with the Tigers.

And I see Tygra now remembers that thundercats don't run from a fight -_-

I thought this exact same thing. How much older than Lion-o is Tygra? Seems very early to have developed such a strong attachment to the idea of being crown prince.

It gives the people mad at Lion-o's mom some traction though. She seems to have been the reason that Tygra was SO set on being king, AND the reason he realized it had been take from him. Her bad. Although she presumably didn't intend to give her son lifelong trauma.

I don't know. The whole idea a 4 year old kid can actually get such a strong emotional attachment to the idea "i'm going to rule this someday" kinda boggles the mind. It's a very adult emotion.

Plus, there are 2 types of leaders. Those who want to be leaders and those who want the best for the people/company. Right now, it really seems like Tygra is the former, and those types tend to corrupt easily.

So you saw Sophie's Choice and did not realize what having to choose between her children actually does to a mother. You also quote me but you're not talking to me. You were just talking to yourself! Sorry to intrude :)

Were you seeing the same balloon I was? All it had was the balloon and the basket. There wasn't any machines or tech connected to it.



There was a third option. He could have sent an envoy to Thundera for help like he originally wanted to. He wouldn't have had to kill Tygra OR send him away had he done that.





Tygra was about two or three years old at the time. Of course he's going to think about how it affects him more than anyone else. Why wouldn't he?

And personally I haven't seen any indication that Lion-O even thinks about his mother much less that her death affected him the same way it did Tygra.

Wanting something you're told that you're going to get when you grow up is not an adult emotion. How many kids have dressed in their parent's clothing or girls put on their mother's makeup or wanted to drive a car or numerous other things? Personally I think him wanting to rule has more to do with his wanting acceptance and wanting to follow in Claudus's footsteps. And, I admit, to prove to everyone that when they named Lion-O heir they made the wrong choice (in his opinion).

Btw Tygra's only 2 or 3 years older than Lion-O. Not 4 or 5. The crew put Lion-O's age at 17 and said Tygra was 19/20.

so...at 2-3 years old, he already decided 'i want to be the king' and remembers it very vividly to this day. Man, I don't even have any memories of myself before 3 or 4.

I don't think it's possible for a 2-3 year old to remember a lot unless it was very traumatizing.

I was just speculating. The basket seemed quite big. Besides if technology isn’t a probable answer, perhaps it used some kind of magic?

Why do you forget what we’ve already discussed so fast? I limited his choices to either sacrifice Tygra or send him away because that was how it was depicted in this episode by the writers.

The envoy to Thundera option would’ve only worked if he hadn’t made a deal with the spirits. Once the deal with the Ancient Spirits had been made, Tygra was a target. All the other Tigers seemed to side against Javon.

Entrusting Tygra to a bunch of Tigers whose lives would have depended on his death does not seem very smart.

He actually sacrificed his people for his son – not a wise decision as a king but perhaps understandable as a father.

I was talking about the present day Tygra, not the 4 year old.

True that does not excuse Tygra's statement. Besides, where else have we seen how much his mother’s death affected Tygra other than this episode?

He didn't remember. He said he was told the story later when he was older didnt he?

I don't agree. When the spirits found out Tygra hadn't been killed they released the disease again. Why didn't they go to Thundera then? Becuase of their pride, which was partly what the episode was about. It wasn't because they didn't have the choice. And if, like you seem to be assuming, the Balloon purposefully went to Thundera, he could've had Tygra back.


They still followed Javan as a leader after that even if they hated that he didn't kill Tygra. Why wouldn't they have followed him to Thundera?

Btw another reason I don't think it went to Thundera on purpose was because of how surprised everyone was that he ended up there.

I think we were seeing everything through tygra's eyes, not lion-o's this whole time.

This is what makes lion-o different, he cares.

They don't have the time to spend on tygra, we still got he kittens, cheetara, and mummra to go.

I liked it and I didn't think bad of anyone. I was happy tygra was able to deal with his pride that has held him back and now T/L will have a real brother relastionship.

This was a fantastic episode IMO. Good story telling and it didn't feel rushed to me. Bravo!

I laughed at your last sentence, brought up episode 14 again.

In episode 13, tygra said you took her from me. He is talking about his mother.

Even though she was lion-o's real mother, she is actually tygra's mother. She raised him.

It is fate that he showed up there. The core players are being gathered for the big show down.

Maybe he never felt like he belong, because there were no other tigers. Just saying.:)

Look at the title of the last episodes. What lies above. That stone will be the last one.

Remember they went to mummra's lair, that was probably really far away. So there might be another stone closer.

Remember the tigers pride hold them back from seeing this.

Javon did not seem to have the same kind of authority that Claudus had. Something about the way the other Tigers openly disagreed and sided against him.

If the Ancient Spirits released the disease again, why should he have brought Tygra back? It would have simply made it much simpler for the tigers who knew of Javon’s deceit to just sacrifice Tygra and rid themselves of the disease.

Well, they were definitely surprised that he became a “prince among lions.” I’m not sure if they also seemed startled at his return or that he was alive. As for Javon, he only said that it was “quite a surprise” to see Tygra.

I would have agreed, if at any time until that point (episode 13) the issue of their mother’s death had been brought up.

Instead, the triangle was in full swing and it seemed obvious that Tygra was referring to Lion-O “taking” Cheetara.
Now, with the latest episode, the “you took her” line is at best unclear.

If Tygra meant that Lion-O “took” his mother away from him then it still does not speak well of him.

He said it as though Lion-O was born with the sole intention of denying him what he wants.

He probably grew up that way and seeing lion-o slack off made him resent him more.

It makes sense that he was referring to the mother now, because his deeper emotions were surfacing in the AP.

You know how kids can be and if you grew up that way, it can make you very bitter. I not saying it is right, but it happens.

episode was fast from the storytelling point. Felt like the 22 mins went in 10 - nevetheless very insightful about Tygra and why he acts like how he is. I am sure, they planned the whole thing beforehand, the triangle and Tygra's background. It's good to see, that Tygra can be a nice guy instead of being a constant jerk at times.

Sure, I understand what you mean.

I brought that up because I sometimes notice a tendency among Tygra fans to downplay his faults while holding Lion-O to higher standards.
I can just imagine the uproar if Lion-O said similar things to Tygra or kicked Tygra Spartan-style into a hole etc.

Personally, this episode was a step in the right direction and the writers should spend more time on Tygra to make him more… likeable.

At this point, Lion-O seems like a thoughtful, caring, friendly idealist who can be brash and immature at times while Tygra comes off as an arrogant, self-righteous, entitled jerk who can occasionally be nice and do the right thing.

The first part I very much agree with you. Children are fundamentally selfish creatures, even when they're being nice, they usually don't truly understand other people's emotions.

The second part though I think was a victim of a very dense plot. Lion-o has very little emotional reaction to anything in this episode. He's standing right behind Tygra as he says that the day Lion-o was born he lost the two most important things in his life (which is pretty rude) and Lion-o just has this zoned out look on his face. I think they just wanted to focus on Tygra's emotions.

Lion-O is far more mature in this episode than he has been lately. What his brother said may have sounded selfish, but he's just going to let it slide because he knows he's going through an emotional and mental rollercoaster right now (after all, he's been there himself). It's true the animators could have made him look sad without him saying anything, but I think it works better if he stays strong for the sake of Tygra.

As long as they will not develop the "bromance" further...:eek::eek::eek:

_______________
Jelenic and crew will be forever be remembered as the man and crew that tainted the TCATS brand. Hopefully J.M. DeMatteis will remove some of the taint.

fair enough. That's a reasonable explanation.

While it does make sense that Tygra may have been referring to their mother there, we have absolutely NO proof of that. Until they say something (which they're not likely to) it's just conjecture.

Given that one of the major points of that episode was the triangle, I'm inclined to believe he was talking about Cheetara.

I don't think that's true though. According to you, he's 2-3 yrs older than Lion-O which means he was 2-3 years old when Lion-O was born and when that particular flashback took place. IF he was told the story, I don't think it would have been in such detail that they would mention 'oh hey, btw, your mother? She didn't call you prince starting from then' It's probably something he remembered.

Plus why were the two of them out by themselves? Where are the rest of the thundercats? Did they learn nothing from the last 2 episodes on why they should never split the party? Did they even mention what they were searching for?

Well, since several others have said about the episode and character interactions what I would have said, I'll just use this post to comment on this....

I want a baby Tygra doll NOW!

One that sings and cries ! That was a cute baby.

I know some people feel put out with the lack of emotion from Claudus after the Queen died, but I think he was holding it in for Tygra's sake. Or maybe he struggles with showing emotion?

Love an episode that can make me laugh and cry. I feel like Javan was the most emotionally driven character we've ever met. Sucks that the clan ended like that.
On that note, who thinks were going to get a reset button at the end of the series? Didn't the writers confirm that there were very few cats left? Are they gonna just die off in a few generations?

Regarding the second half of your post.

I'm going to assume the Tank has issues with snow. Otherwise, why brave that weather on your feet? Maybe the tank was low on fuel? Scouting a trail was just a convenient excuse to get the brothers alone. Which, I don't see the huge issue with:(:confused:

It's more of a precautionary measure since they know the new generals are apparently out to get them and are capable of doing so. I would at least have expected them to stick together for safety. Or you know, at least have the cleric accompany them since both of them are the last of the royal line, which clerics are in charge of protecting -_- Would be kind of hard to protect them if she's not around. At least none of them mentioned the dreaded 'hey, this seems like it would be a good spot for an ambush' line

Btw, they never explained why Tygra can do the invisibility thing. Is that something given to Tigers, some tigers or is it just Tygra alone?

OK, finally got on here to post my thoughts;
Very nice episode. Mostly filling in backstory and world-building, but very good. I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, there's no tigers in Thundera. Also seeing the Ancient Spirits of Evil is always fun. The only thing I was expecting and didn't get was a cameo from Ben-Gali. So overall, a solid B+ episode. Yay!

You know where that is going.:D

I think Claudus was a stoic. That's how I read his character from the premiere as well. I think he had a strong focus on duty, responsibility, and keeping his 'leader face' on at all times. That kind of personality can be rough in emotional scenes like that, but I did feel like it was very in character for him.

I'm also sad that they killed Javan so quickly. I've come to appreciate in the last few years how much having LIVING family members can contribute to a plot. And I think having Tygra's living father would have been an interesting counterpoint to Claudus in the flashbacks.

I don't know if they've confirmed there are a small number of cats left, but I've got to imagine we're going to get one of a few things:
1. a handwave since it's a kid show that they'll be perfectly okay rebuilding their society with two or three females. Even though that makes no sense.

2. A new thundera thing where all of the sudden it will be discovered that there are a fairly large number of cats left, they were just scattered, and they'll all come back and rebuild thundera.

I dsagree. He said he lost the two things he cherished most, Mother and Crown.

The AP was brining up these emotions that were buried. Just like his memories of tygra making lion-o fall in the pit. These were all emotions that tygra really feels.

This I agree with. They could have been more clever about it, but in the end I don't think it's a big deal.

My only concern about it is that this is sort of a pattern for these writers; they have something want to happen, but they can't figure out how to make it happen, so they just do it anyway and to hell with an explanation.

In this episode I thought it was fine, but overall I think it's something they need to work on.

This episode was meant for tygra and lion-o only.

I understand that, but like Kale said, it's never explained why only the two of them are out by themselves. It's a minor issue but it's still a 'writer wants X outcome so everything will lead to X outcome no matter how ridiculous it is'. It's just less horrible writing than their fight scenes.

Edit: one way they could have solved it was 'everyone went to track together but they got separated and lost or something. Or maybe the avalanche led to them getting separated.

What I notice about these episodes are you can't really read to much into them. You have to take them at face value.

The next episode is about kit and kat. They might be out in the jungle and we have no clue why.

The Crew Of Omens blog confirmed that some cats were killed in the fall of Thundera, others were either taken as slaves or fled into the mountains to hide, so there's still plenty left. It's just a matter of finding them all, and right now that's not the priority.